10% bonus on every element of second half?
- Thread starter JayW
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
I think then we'd have skaters trying all spins AND jumps in the second half, and having the first half used for footwork.
How about footsteps are also rewarded with 10% in 2nd half?
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2013
Do you really want skaters to do absolutely nothing for the first 2 minutes and then jam pack every single element to the last 2 minutes?
All that would do is encourage the skaters to first do choreo / step sequences, and then on the second half all 7 jumps, and end with all 3 spins.
- Joined
- May 10, 2010
I thought about this solution as well, but this still tilts jumps toward the second half since they have a higher base value than jumps and jumps can be completed in less time than Level 4 spins and step sequences that seem to get longer and longer to fit in all the turns.
I would rather have only the last five jumps qualify for the jump bonus if there had to be restriction or some sort. Beyond that, the hope is that the 3A and/or the quad will become more prevalent in ladies skating; if so, that will naturally lead women to having these demanding jumps be in the first half, if not the first several elements of a program.
I would rather have only the last five jumps qualify for the jump bonus if there had to be restriction or some sort. Beyond that, the hope is that the 3A and/or the quad will become more prevalent in ladies skating; if so, that will naturally lead women to having these demanding jumps be in the first half, if not the first several elements of a program.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2017
Why not just eliminate the bonus and add penalties for front and backloading?
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2007
Why not just keep the 10% bonus on jumps in the second half, but set a maximum number of jumps for the second half?
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Well, the bonus rule was installed not just to encourage the skaters to spread out their jumps for the sake of more pleasing choreography, but also to reward skaters that demonstrate exceptional stamina. I think the ISU was surprised when skaters responded by doing 4 jumps right at the halfway plus one second mark. And then doing 5. and then a few could do six. ...
As for the step sequence, that was always put at the end anyway because after you do an enthusiastic step sequence you don't have any energy left to do any more jumps. Especially those unesthetic step sequences that try to fake it by making large upper body and arm movements.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2017
This, or only a certain amount of jumps actually get the bonus...
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
To me, this suggestion is the best of all possible worlds. It gives the skaters a reward for avoiding excessive front-loading, it rewards stamina (though more moderately than at present), and it gives the skaters the maximum choice in designjng their jump layout without pushing them into on "ISU-preferred" layout.
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2014
I don’t personally have a problem with the backloaded programs because skaters like Alina prove they can be well choreographed. If the rules must change without eliminating bonuses altogether, why can't they just push the bonus period back further? Maybe in the last quarter of the program so there’s literally not enough time to “abuse” as some people are claiming, but it would still extremely difficult athletically. Perhaps skaters would start saving their 3A, quads, 3-3’s for the end of the program but...all the more suspense I guess. What will people find to complain about then I wonder? 
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2015
They are shortening the free, what are they supposed to do, cram everything into the last minute? ^^
I think the change is coming, too much complaining going on, especially now with Alina winning. Ideally they'll simply say, since they're cutting a jumping pass too, 3 jumping passes (so say room for all combos) get the bonus, or 4. That's it.
I think the change is coming, too much complaining going on, especially now with Alina winning. Ideally they'll simply say, since they're cutting a jumping pass too, 3 jumping passes (so say room for all combos) get the bonus, or 4. That's it.
The whole point of my post is to eliminate crammed jumps.......... :hslap:
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2013
...They're cutting a jumping pass too?
What changes exactly are being proposed for the next quad?
To be honest, I really would be saddened if backloading were to be limited. I really don't think it's an issue and the fully backloaded programs are quite unique. I also think it'd just be a temporary issue.
We should be scoring performances based on the quality of skating, elements, and program, not the amount of effort or stamina it took to do them. That is what is wrong with the second half bonus fundamentally. All other aspects of the scoring system (in name at least) reward the quality of the material presented--it doesn't matter if the skater took lots of effort or none at all. The second half bonus is explicitly rewarding increased ability, effort, or stamina, but not actually an increased quality skating product.
As a (ridiculous example) it takes a lot of ability to skate your entire program with your eyes closed, and demonstrates an amazing awareness of the ice. Should we give a bonus for doing that? Clearly, no, because it doesn't enhance the quality of skating we see.
As a (ridiculous example) it takes a lot of ability to skate your entire program with your eyes closed, and demonstrates an amazing awareness of the ice. Should we give a bonus for doing that? Clearly, no, because it doesn't enhance the quality of skating we see.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
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I think though the issue you are describing is a separate one from the idea of awarding a second half bonus. Instead I think what you are describing is everything to do with judging. The judges should be able to assess and judge the quality of the jump regardless of it gets a second half bonus or not. There really is no reason to tie these two separate issues together.
Every skater should have the opportunity to earn the bonus but the judge needs to feel comfortable (think corridor judging) in marking down for noticable poor quality of execution. I’ve said this about Tanos too. We absolutely need to encourage skaters to feel a freedom to add as many arm variations as they see fit with the intention to increase quality/aesthetics of the jump. The judge also needs to feel free to reward/punish the arm variation and it’s impact on the jump and to an extent the program. The suggestion to restrict how many times a skater can do arm variations is the most unfortunate rule change I’ve heard suggested. Anything that clamps freedom and creates a standard layout for all should be discouraged. If a skater wants to try arm variations on everything we should let them. The ISU guidelines just needs to encourage the judges freedom to mark things as they see fit. It would be valuable if the judges who broke the corridor were asked to publicly discuss those marks. Not to pick on them but to convey and encourage discussion on the quality of elements. It should be a positive thing to receive and share such feedback.
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2015
No, the whole point is that they would do it anyway and it would look worse and worse.
It's a sport, it's fine to have bonuses. There's no need for any type of exaggerations. Actually having half the jumping passes in number, specifically stated, counting for the bonus, solves everything without any unnecessary complications.
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