Is this skate right for me?

Sibelius · Mar 10, 2018

One thing I didn't see is which model Jackson's you were in before the Elle's. If you were in a rec. skate, or an Artiste/Mystique, that move to Competitor or Fusion Firm would be pretty drastic. If you were in a Classique it should be fine.

Competitors are close outs now, your fitter should give you a good discount if they still have them in stock (don't buy online). The Debut Fusion Firm is the boot replacement for the Competitor. It actually might be a little stiffer than the old Competitor. Note it is a microfiber boot with a plastic sole (although available special order with any of the Jackson soles for an additional $85 and 6 week wait time). Looks great actually, a little more sparkle which some like/some don't.

You would need a blade, usual suspects are Wilson Coronation Ace, MK Pro. Other "clones" are made by Jackson (Ultima) and Reidell (Eclipse). All about the $230 range in addition to the $300 boot, so a little pricier, but worth the investment. The Jackson Freestyle Fusion is the highest level boot/blade option in Jackson's current line.

We went with the Debut Fusion Standard, same stiffness as the old (and new) Freestyles. It was a better choice for her to move incrementally to that model from the Elle since she'll be in them for 6 months or so before she grows out of it and into the Firm or the Premiere. If your feet aren't growing as fast I agree with getting the stiffer models that will last you longer. Make sure you get them heat molded for reduced break in time (goes for any of the new Jackson models).

SnowLily · Mar 10, 2018

Sibelius said:
One thing I didn't see is which model Jackson's you were in before the Elle's. If you were in a rec. skate, or an Artiste/Mystique, that move to Competitor or Fusion Firm would be pretty drastic. If you were in a Classique it should be fine.

Competitors are close outs now, your fitter should give you a good discount if they still have them in stock (don't buy online). The Debut Fusion Firm is the boot replacement for the Competitor. It actually might be a little stiffer than the old Competitor. Note it is a microfiber boot with a plastic sole (although available special order with any of the Jackson soles for an additional $85 and 6 week wait time). Looks great actually, a little more sparkle which some like/some don't.

You would need a blade, usual suspects are Wilson Coronation Ace, MK Pro. Other "clones" are made by Jackson (Ultima) and Reidell (Eclipse). All about the $230 range in addition to the $300 boot, so a little pricier, but worth the investment. The Jackson Freestyle Fusion is the highest level boot/blade option in Jackson's current line.

We went with the Debut Fusion Standard, same stiffness as the old (and new) Freestyles. It was a better choice for her to move incrementally to that model from the Elle since she'll be in them for 6 months or so before she grows out of it and into the Firm or the Premiere. If your feet aren't growing as fast I agree with getting the stiffer models that will last you longer. Make sure you get them heat molded for reduced break in time (goes for any of the new Jackson models).

My first skates were the Jackson Glaciers, and I actually got pretty far considering they were only for skating around. Then I got the Jackson Mystique, which I got to starting jumps. But for some reason, I was just skating around (since I grew out of my skates), so I had to use rental skates, I was still able to do a flip in rental skates. Not a good idea to do anything in rental skates, but oh well.

The first fitter who recommended the Competitors gave us a $30 discount...

tothepointe · Mar 10, 2018

The Debut does fit different to the Competitor so I would get refitted if you are going in that direction. Though I doubt your size would change. I wore the Debuts when they were first released last year and tried the Competitor also at the same time. The Debut has a slightly slimmer heel and a better wrap around the instep. For me these were positive things.

Of course they have already discontinued the version of the Debut I did buy and have now moved into the thermoplastic fusion soles.

Sibelius · Mar 10, 2018

SnowLily said:
My first skates were the Jackson Glaciers, and I actually got pretty far considering they were only for skating around. Then I got the Jackson Mystique, which I got to starting jumps. But for some reason, I was just skating around (since I grew out of my skates), so I had to use rental skates, I was still able to do a flip in rental skates. Not a good idea to do anything in rental skates, but oh well.

The first fitter who recommended the Competitors gave us a $30 discount...

Ok, that might explain why one fitter set you up in the Elle. Going from a Mystique, Jackson stiffness 10 to a Competitor, Jackson stiffness 50 is a big move. When you tried the Competitors on could you bend your knees sufficiently? If so, that might have been a better choice for the long term, though you might have had a tough time breaking them in at first.

So, if you already have the Elle's and can't return them, I stand by the comparison with my skater about your size (and the recommendation of our fitter) that you will be fine in them up to a Lutz. After that it's time for more support. I also stand by my suggestion of changing blades. That way in a few months when you are ready for new boots you've already mastered the blade and don't have to get used to a stiffer boot, a different spin rocker, and a bigger toepick all at the same time. It worked out great for my skater, but we are taking a slower more incremental route since she'll outgrow everything in 6 months anyway.

Ic3Rabbit · Mar 10, 2018

So we're basically reiterating what I've said for awhile now in this thread?

Also, there's no excuse for the guy that put her in the wrong boot other than don't go to a hockey guy to get fitted for figure skates. :disapp:

SnowLily · Mar 11, 2018

Sibelius said:
Ok, that might explain why one fitter set you up in the Elle. Going from a Mystique, Jackson stiffness 10 to a Competitor, Jackson stiffness 50 is a big move. When you tried the Competitors on could you bend your knees sufficiently? If so, that might have been a better choice for the long term, though you might have had a tough time breaking them in at first.

So, if you already have the Elle's and can't return them, I stand by the comparison with my skater about your size (and the recommendation of our fitter) that you will be fine in them up to a Lutz. After that it's time for more support. I also stand by my suggestion of changing blades. That way in a few months when you are ready for new boots you've already mastered the blade and don't have to get used to a stiffer boot, a different spin rocker, and a bigger toepick all at the same time. It worked out great for my skater, but we are taking a slower more incremental route since she'll outgrow everything in 6 months anyway.

So when I tried the Competitors, they were the old ones. The ones with boot only. So I wasn't allowed to stand up. When the guy tested the Elle, he had me do that.
On that day, I was wearing regular low socks, so the tongue was cutting into my skin, so I couldn't really bend much. He thought that meant they were too firm. The first time I skated in them, I tried that, which creased it a little. Like three more times, it was about halfway creased.

SnowLily · Mar 11, 2018

Ic3Rabbit said:
So we're basically reiterating what I've said for awhile now in this thread?

Also, there's no excuse for the guy that put her in the wrong boot other than don't go to a hockey guy to get fitted for figure skates. :disapp:

I didn't really want a hockey guy fitting my skates either, but in the store, there was the guy who had 25 years of experience fitting skates but was a hockey player, it this guy who was like, "buy something or get out of my store" [emoji13]

Ic3Rabbit · Mar 11, 2018

SnowLily said:
I didn't really want a hockey guy fitting my skates either, but in the store, there was the guy who had 25 years of experience fitting skates but was a hockey player, it this guy who was like, "buy something or get out of my store" [emoji13]

Here is what I'm going to tell you as a former elite competitor and now a pro: Please find a pro figure skating fitter, it doesn't matter how long the other guy has been doing it for. The hockey guys have no clue what they are doing for the most part, they tell you they do, but 99.99% of the time they are wrong. Don't let one sharpen your blades either..ever!
I am telling you this because it seems you were already misguided and this is one of the worst things ever for beginning skaters.

Now as far as your boot choice: If it were me: I would go with something rated a bit higher than the Competitor because that's only rated to get you to your axel, which I believe you said you are either working on or soon will be.

Good luck!

singerskates · Mar 11, 2018

SnowLily said:
So when I tried the Competitors, they were the old ones. The ones with boot only. So I wasn't allowed to stand up. When the guy tested the Elle, he had me do that.
On that day, I was wearing regular low socks, so the tongue was cutting into my skin, so I couldn't really bend much. He thought that meant they were too firm. The first time I skated in them, I tried that, which creased it a little. Like three more times, it was about halfway creased.

Woah, that's underbooted! What does everyone else think?

singerskates · Mar 11, 2018

Ic3Rabbit said:
Here is what I'm going to tell you as a former elite competitor and now a pro: Please find a pro figure skating fitter, it doesn't matter how long the other guy has been doing it for. The hockey guys have no clue what they are doing for the most part, they tell you they do, but 99.99% of the time they are wrong. Don't let one sharpen your blades either..ever!
I am telling you this because it seems you were already misguided and this is one of the worst things ever for beginning skaters.

Now as far as your boot choice: If it were me: I would go with something rated a bit higher than the Competitor because that's only rated to get you to your axel, which I believe you said you are either working on or soon will be.

Good luck!

I'm with Ic3Rabbit, skip the Competitor and go for the Premiere.

Jh9772 · Mar 11, 2018

SnowLily said:
So when I tried the Competitors, they were the old ones. The ones with boot only. So I wasn't allowed to stand up. When the guy tested the Elle, he had me do that.
On that day, I was wearing regular low socks, so the tongue was cutting into my skin, so I couldn't really bend much. He thought that meant they were too firm. The first time I skated in them, I tried that, which creased it a little. Like three more times, it was about halfway creased.

While it’s true you shouldn’t walk around in boots without blades, you should absolutely be allowed to stand up since our feet lay differently with our weight over them. You also need to be standing to be able to tell if they’re too stiff to bend or not.

Sibelius · Mar 11, 2018

SnowLily said:
I didn't really want a hockey guy fitting my skates either, but in the store, there was the guy who had 25 years of experience fitting skates but was a hockey player, it this guy who was like, "buy something or get out of my store" [emoji13]

I don't think the new Premiere's are out yet, spring is when they are due to be released, whatever that means in figure skate terms. Call or email Jackson (I've always gotten a response in a day or so) and ask when they expect them to be available to dealers, and what the closest will be to you. Have mom (or dad, we don't mind--it's what we do) drive you to them. You might have to order and try on and pay a restock if they don't work, but it's worth it. I doubt many will stock that boot. It should fit the same size/width as the Elle since it's the same last.

singerskates · Mar 11, 2018

Sibelius said:
I don't think the new Premiere's are out yet, spring is when they are due to be released, whatever that means in figure skate terms. Call or email Jackson (I've always gotten a response in a day or so) and ask when they expect them to be available to dealers, and what the closest will be to you. Have mom (or dad, we don't mind--it's what we do) drive you to them. You might have to order and try on and pay a restock if they don't work, but it's worth it. I doubt many will stock that boot. It should fit the same size/width as the Elle since it's the same last.

Ah, the new Premiere may not yet be out but you can get good deals on last year's model.

Sibelius · Mar 11, 2018

singerskates said:
Ah, the new Premiere may not yet be out but you can get good deals on last year's model.

That's the theory, but skates don't seem to get discounted all that much. I know Jackson closed out a good part of their old line and discounts are pretty minuscule, and that's online--this OP had better get to a fitter/dealer in person. Of course some may prefer the old looks (I hate the silver plastic sole on the new Premier, my little skater LOVES it). Cash in hand to someone who has her size in stock, and also will be selling a blade might help the deal. Our fitter just can't afford to stock much, so we order and try, hoping to avoid the restock and shipping fees. For a good fitting boot though it would be a worthwhile investment. I sure hope someone gets that new Premier soon, we were the guinea pigs on the Debut Fusion, don't really want to be that again.

singerskates · Mar 11, 2018

Sibelius said:
That's the theory, but skates don't seem to get discounted all that much. I know Jackson closed out a good part of their old line and discounts are pretty minuscule, and that's online--this OP had better get to a fitter/dealer in person. Of course some may prefer the old looks (I hate the silver plastic sole on the new Premier, my little skater LOVES it). Cash in hand to someone who has her size in stock, and also will be selling a blade might help the deal. Our fitter just can't afford to stock much, so we order and try, hoping to avoid the restock and shipping fees. For a good fitting boot though it would be a worthwhile investment. I sure hope someone gets that new Premier soon, we were the guinea pigs on the Debut Fusion, don't really want to be that again.

Figure Skating Boutique https://www.skatingboutique.com/ has their spring sale on now.

Here's the Premiere; https://www.skatingboutique.com/free-style-premiere-dj-2800-ladies.html

They are based in Metro Toronto's Markham, Ontario. The Young store moved.

Sibelius · Mar 11, 2018

singerskates said:
Figure Skating Boutique https://www.skatingboutique.com/ has their spring sale on now.

Here's the Premiere; https://www.skatingboutique.com/free-style-premiere-dj-2800-ladies.html

They are based in Metro Toronto's Markham, Ontario. The Young store moved.

FSB looks like a great store. Return policy is generous too, no restock that I saw and at least exchange or store credit. Our fitter unfortunately will not work on any new boots bought anywhere but her shop. Iron clad, no matter what. Will work on the boots they sell for life though. That's why we go to her. Maybe the OP is local to them or her fitter would be willing to heat mold and punch for a shop fee.

That sole on the new Premieres, blech. I'm going to work on my little one and convince her that LCF is the way to go. Oh, who am I kidding, she lands her Axel she can have whatever she wants!

SnowLily · Mar 11, 2018

Okay so they (our store) refused to sell us anything higher than an Elle. Not even a Freestyle. He assured us that I could use it up to doubles, and would only recommend the Competitor to someone who was landing their axel. Seems like you guys wouldn't agree, so the only option is to change the blade?

SnowLily · Mar 11, 2018

Oh and I just realized, but Ontario is 2,000 miles away... Any good stores around the Seattle/Vancouver/Portland area?

Sibelius · Mar 11, 2018

SnowLily said:
Okay so they (our store) refused to sell us anything higher than an Elle. Not even a Freestyle. He assured us that I could use it up to doubles, and would only recommend the Competitor to someone who was landing their axel. Seems like you guys wouldn't agree, so the only option is to change the blade?

That just sounds fishy. Our fitter is very conservative (and would probably drive Ic3Rabbit NUTS with her opinions!). She'd say that you can land an Axel in an Elle, if you already have strong ankles, but I don't think even she would recommend it as a new skate for someone at your size and skating level. We do have a smaller boy at our Saturday rink working in the doubles class led by one of the top Russian coaches, in Freestyles. I'm sure she would have him in something else if she felt it was necessary for his size and skills. So opinions are going to be all over as to what is appropriate, but the experienced skaters here know what they're talking about and it just doesn't sound like the shop you're at does.

I'm sure someone here can recommend a shop in your area to go visit. Again, you said you have the Elle's already and I'm assuming you can't return them, so I'll say one last time you're good in them for awhile, but find someone to help you move on soon. Changing blades is just a suggestion to make the boots you have work a little better for your long term progress in the short term future.

Ic3Rabbit · Mar 11, 2018

See below

Is this skate right for me?

Sibelius

SnowLily

tothepointe

Sibelius

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️

SnowLily

SnowLily

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️

singerskates

singerskates

Jh9772

Sibelius

singerskates

Sibelius

singerskates

Sibelius

SnowLily

SnowLily

Sibelius

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️

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