Trusova and Quads | Page 15 | Golden Skate

Trusova and Quads

j00mla

Made in USSR
Final Flight
Joined
Jan 2, 2017
Lets see Trusova land those quads at 16,17 when she actually has hips then i will be a believer. Like Frank Carroll once said girls her age and build rotate can like a bat out of hell that older ladies can't when they get older and get mature bodies.

Lets wait you write something new, not so well-known facts like "girls have puberty" or "ice is slippery"
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
I’d say in our area and more specifically the Rinks I attend almost daily there are probably five or six kids who are Sasha’s age and similar size. It’s fairly common to see tiny kids take to the sport. I’m surprised more people aren’t aware. I have a close friend who coaches and one of her students is 14 and looks a lot younger. I never really thought much of it TBH. It’s a rather goofy sport full of all types of oddities.

It happens in the US too. Well...except the high level jumping part. We’re not quite there yet :laugh:
 

andromache

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Trusova's jumps are amazing. Her quads are amazing. I mean...HOLY COW. TWO IN ONE PROGRAM.

I don't think she'll sustain those quads past puberty and I am worried about her potential for injury. But like....holy moly. Incredible. We're so used to seeing grown men do them, it's a little surreal to see a 13 year old girl (who basically looks like an 8 year old) able to do them too. So small! So much power!

(I'm thrilled for her and super impressed...but I also wanna be realistic. Does this make me a hater?)
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Can we please celebrate Trusova's wonderful achievements without going on about how she's 13 and that she'll lose them? can we just wait to see what happens in a few years?

This. Why can't we just have nice things? Why be like "oh well she can't maintain these quads post-puberty".. Does it make you feel better about yourself? Thank goodness the ISU does ratify quads based on ability to consistently keep them for more than a couple years.
 

charlotte14

Medalist
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Exactly, and not just elites. EVERY person that I've kept up with from my gymnastic days has back and/or joint troubles, including me. And we were far from elite, but we still pushed ourselves to our own personal limits. Sports taken to an extreme is BAD for your body. I know this one woman who is early 30s who runs marathons who has had both knees replaced. Her goal for next year? Nope not taking it easy, she's now training for the SUPER marathon which I don't know how exactly far but probably 50 miles! Some people seem to be fine pushing themselves and accept the injuries and longterm effects. The question is is it worth it? Well that's a personal decision. Lipinski said she's fine with a hip replacement at 18 or whenever since she has her Olympic gold medal. It was worth it to her. So why should we judge these skaters who want to push themselves to unbelievable heights if that's what they choose? Upthread someone said that 13 y/os can't even imagine graduating from high school let alone think further on. In America, 13 ys/o is 8th grade and high school begins in 9th. I don't know any 13 y/o who can't think 4 years into the future about graduating. What a putdown to say that. I guess what I'm saying is don't underestimate these young skaters. The Eteri girls have seen Alina break her arm and Anna breaking her leg and Evgenia with her stress fracture, Polina was out for a season with injury, etc. They know the risks. Let them make the decision what they want. (FWIW if my kid had major injuries at a young age, I'd take them out of it, but the parents of these girls seem to condone it)
And I am certain all these athletes are willing to risk it on their own. Now, I am not a big fan of Eteri. But if it's the skaters and their families who decide that, why would people blame Eteri? It's how it has been for years at the elite level of all sports.
 

Figure 8's

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Pretty amazing! The Russians won all four gold medals at Junior Worlds. Look out World. Russians will be dominating the sport.
 

Anni234

Ina Bauer
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Country
Estonia
Looked at her performance again today and realised how much I admire her for doing what she's doing. She probably could've won this without any quads or just one quad, but the way she pushed herself and took the huge gamble is amazing. She went for making history instead of just going for the title and it succeeded. Hopefully she has a bright future. :pray:
 

Globetrotter

Medalist
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Here as you can see... The first frame the toe pick leaves the ice as well as the last frame before leaving the ice + the first frame touching the ice upon landing at the end side by side.

It's barely over 180 degrees of pre-rotation if any. Definitely not "all the way to the side".

You honestly lose tons of credibility with this... I'm going to check all your calls frame by frame from now on.

Actually from this frame, the prerotation is a little over 180 deg on slo-mo. If the judges and callers are watching in real time, I don't think it is obvious at all it had > 180 deg preturns. The landing was under 90 deg short, so by current rules, it deserves full BV. Judges though have to evaluate the GOE, so if anything, it will be at their discretion. If any sharp eye judge could tell there was a slight shortage in rotation, this probably is a -1 GOE although i think most will give something like 0, giving the skater the benefit of the doubt. The tech callers can't < this under current rules, so it is only GOE judging that can be adjusted. Personally, I think the GOE should be ~ 0 and some +1 if the judge is lenient. She does get decent distance and a nice finish.
 

[email protected]

Medalist
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
But I don't want to dwell on that here because at least my impression of the purpose of this thread is to celebrate Trusova's accomplishment - and yes, it was quite an accomplishment! I've already watched her performance several times, and I know I'll watch it more. I think it's incredible, and I admire her determination and guts to go for it and challenge not just her competitors but also herself.

Yes, that's the main point of this thread. One ratified quad would be an accomplishment. But 2 in 1 program - that's the game changer for everyone, Eteri's camp including. Medvedeva needed, first Zagitova, and now Trusova. She might have thought before: "I am winning anyway. Osmond is inconsistent and with the same edge problem, Satoko URs and is at the mercy of tech panels, other Russians are well behind. No need to push oneself". Now she has the motivation at least to correct the lutz edge and introduce 3 lutzes instead of one.

Why have many people already decided that Trusova won't keep the jumps? Who knows how she will be affected by the puberty? There are women like Juka Kavaguti. Or how old is Tursunbaeva? She still looks like a girl.

And even if she won't. There was her moment of triumph now. Let's share it with her. Yulia had her moment in Sochi. And no matter how it went after we all remember it.

There is a Russian song with the words: "Life is a moment between the past and the future". But in fact life is full of moments. Let's keep in the hearts the brightest like a small "Rapuntsel" with a killer smile going there and make thousands of people admire her tremendous achievement.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Kavaguti had one dislocated shoulder after another, and couldn't hold onto her throws any more---that's why they retired.

Tursnybaeva was skating with a hip injury at JW and couldn't do a lutz. I noticed how long her legs have grown. Obviously she's in the midst of a growth spurt and it's forced her to change the way she jumps, thus putting strain on her hip. There will be more struggles for Lizbet to come. She's just 18 and rather old to be just entering puberty, but it's still within the normal age range.

Let me just say I'm happy for Trusova that she landed her quads at JW and had her name in the record books. It was quite an achievement for her. But I don't see it as opening the floodgates of a new era of quads for women in the future. I think a very few very young and very athletically talented skaters will manage to land quads in competition from time to time, but growth and puberty will gradually make it difficult if not impossible for them to be able to continue to land quads into their senior careers (if they get there without sustaining injury).

Sasha is too young to move up to seniors for at least one more season, and she is so young that growth should not deter her from continuing to land quads next season and possibly even her senior debut year. Past that, who knows. Let her enjoy her time in the spotlight. And we can hope and pray while she continues to amaze that she does not incur injury on ice or as the result of a restricted diet.
 

ancientpeas

The Notorious SEW
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Kavaguti had one dislocated shoulder after another, and couldn't hold onto her throws any more---that's why they retired.

Couldn't she pop her shoulder back into place and did so during a competition? Tough lady. :bow:
I think Adam Rippon did this during SA. I would be lying on the ice crying.
 

Manitou

Medalist
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
This. Why can't we just have nice things? Why be like "oh well she can't maintain these quads post-puberty".. Does it make you feel better about yourself? Thank goodness the ISU does ratify quads based on ability to consistently keep them for more than a couple years.

We are not here to talk "nice things". We are here to talk about what we think in the subject of figure skating. Nice, neutral or whatever. Fortunately, there is no requirement to talk only "nice".
I wish Sasha to maintain her ability to do quads, but as I look at her she is a child. She doesn't even look preteen. She has a child body. Child period. Whatever she can do now, it can be completely different from what she will be able to do in two years, not even mentioning five years.
Radionova was equally easy when she had a child body, but after she grew to a beautiful woman she is not even close to what she could do back then.

Another thing is that I am really hoping for some age requirements, so that figure skating will not turn into children jumping contest.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Another thing is that I am really hoping for some age requirements, so that figure skating will not turn into children jumping contest.

Too late, I think.

IMHO the answer is not to forbid the children to come unto us, but rather to have a scoring system that adequately rewards more mature skills. I am not holding my breath, though.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
We are not here to talk "nice things". We are here to talk about what we think about subject of figure skating. Nice, neutral or whatever. Fortunately, there is no requirement to talk only "nice".
I wish Sasha to maintain her ability to do quads, but as I look at her she is a child. She doesn't even look preteen. She has a child body. Child period. Whatever she can do now, it can be completely different from what she will be able to do in two years, not even mentioning five years.
Radionova was equally easy when she had a child body, but after she grew to a beautiful woman she is not even close to what she could do back then.

Okay. So let's not enjoy or appreciate feats being done today, and just get hung up on longevity and if a skater can maintain their form. :rolleye:

Every time a skater does an impressive act there are always those whose first remarks are not acknowledging/lauding the feat but criticizing it. I mean, hey, there's no rules saying you have to respect skaters or give them some kudos more than simply try to tear them down. YMMV.

On a side note: why is it an issue that a skater like Radionova can't maintain her technical ability and consistency? It's not really news that skaters' bodies change. And she has had many achievements in spite of it, including medaling in the GP in every season. Including a win in 2016-2017.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
The next ladies JW frontier will be landing two quads and two 3As in the FS. Wanna bet there's someone in Eteri's camp who's gearing up to do just that? Move over, Sasha!
 

Shayuki

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
We are not here to talk "nice things". We are here to talk about what we think in the subject of figure skating. Nice, neutral or whatever. Fortunately, there is no requirement to talk only "nice".
I wish Sasha to maintain her ability to do quads, but as I look at her she is a child. She doesn't even look preteen. She has a child body. Child period. Whatever she can do now, it can be completely different from what she will be able to do in two years, not even mentioning five years.
Radionova was equally easy when she had a child body, but after she grew to a beautiful woman she is not even close to what she could do back then.

Another thing is that I am really hoping for some age requirements, so that figure skating will not turn into children jumping contest.
Pretty different cases, Radionova and Trusova. Radionova never had great jumps. They always were tiny, often with scratchy and unstable landings. Trusova's triples have up to 20% more air time at equivalent ages, not to mention the quads(Did Radionova ever have any such capabilities?) which have even more air time still. They also are infinitely more stable and secure. Note most of the skaters who ended up losing their jumps already didn't have very stable ones and had more or less iffy technique, while out of the pre-rotators Trusova has pretty much the best technique out of anyone on hers. She also has no weak jumps, all of them are good.

Remember that skaters tend to actually increase their air time even further as they get older - it's the rotation speed that might suffer. But Trusova's really not that far past the expected rotation speed anyway, especially considering that she's more talented than most when it comes to rotation(A fast rotator isn't going to just slow down to a crawl, they still will be comparatively fast). Skaters like Miyahara are at 4.9 and Trusova might require 5.1-5.2 for a quad with slightly more air time than she currently gets.

You can just look at the rotation speed of someone like Mirai Nagasu 3A and the type of a body she has to realize that it's very possible to be able to rotate fast enough with just a slightly more optimal body type.
 
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