Trusova and Quads

Elucidus · Oct 14, 2018

Trusova makes history again https://youtu.be/heGvrtB-fvg?t=54
first ratified clean ladies 4Lz done in int. comp :agree:
Protocols: http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1819/jgparm2018/jgparm2018_JuniorLadies_FS_Scores.pdf

I wonder why people just ignore it here? I mean it's a day already passed since Armenian jgp is finished - and I am first here to write about it in detail? It's a shame how people here doesn't care :drama:

chopinskate · Oct 14, 2018

Elucidus said:
I wonder why people just ignore it here?

Have a look at the posts above your own.

moriel · Oct 14, 2018

chopinskate said:
Have a look at the posts above your own.

Oh, usually, people make a couple of new threads whenever some skater does a 3A attempt in practice, so we were half expecting that.

Elucidus · Oct 14, 2018

chopinskate said:
Have a look at the posts above your own.

And? What a casual viewer can understand from them if he is not following Trusova's career closely? Also have a look at what I wrote too more carefully

and I am first here to write about it in detail

chopinskate · Oct 14, 2018

moriel said:
Oh, usually, people make a couple of new threads whenever some skater does a 3A attempt in practice, so we were half expecting that.

Elucidus said:
And? What a casual viewer can understand from them if he is not following Trusova's career closely? Also have a look at what I wrote too more carefully

I mean, go ahead? I'd love to see a discussion. :agree:

chopinskate · Oct 14, 2018

First ratified 4Lz in the Ladies Field (Trusova)

Bringing this here:

Elucidus said:
Trusova makes history again https://youtu.be/heGvrtB-fvg?t=54
first ratified clean ladies 4Lz done in int. comp :agree:
Protocols: http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1819/jgparm2018/jgparm2018_JuniorLadies_FS_Scores.pdf

I wonder why people just ignore it here? I mean it's a day already passed since Armenian jgp is finished - and I am first here to write about it in detail? It's a shame how people here doesn't care

I think it's quite an accomplishment.

It can use a bit more rotation. Seems barely rotated, which shouldn't fetch too much GOE, and she was quite forward on the landing. Maybe she'll do better executions down the line.

Discuss -- and dissect -- away, guys!

Elucidus · Oct 14, 2018

chopinskate said:
I mean, go ahead? I'd love to see a discussion. :agree:

Well, most likely there will be new article on isu.org soon about last jgp event - which usually is doubled as new topic with the same title here. And maybe they put her achievement in the title as well.. I hope? Anyway I was dissapointed with lack of interest to this feat here - whether not creating new topic is justified for now or not.

chopinskate · Oct 14, 2018

Elucidus said:
Well, most likely there will be new article on isu.org soon about last jgp event - which usually is doubled as new topic with the same title here. And maybe they put her achievement in the title as well.. I hope? Anyway I was dissapointed with lack of interest to this feat here - whether not creating new topic is justified for now or not.

Well, I made one if you're interested.

yume · Oct 14, 2018

Trusova already made history twice this season. First quad combo, first quad lutz. She's also the first to land three different quads. So three times already. Good for ladies skating.

4everchan · Oct 14, 2018

the reason : it's discussed in competition forums but not so much on the edge. Many threads on the edge were more active before the forum was split apart.. when one constantly gets warnings about what one can post in fan fest or in the edge, it is a turn off. And I say this, having being generously given a competition pass, which I have used to discuss certain events (when I am not sleeping lol) ...

Trusova's quads were discussed ad nauseam last season... but this year, it is true that stuff that happens in competitions doesn't necessarily get much coverage in the edge... people like to discuss things as they happen,not 3-4 days later.

Did anyone discuss much that Gogolev was the first junior to land 3 different quads in a program? That he was the first to land the 4lz and the youngest one ever?

It was mentioned of course, but there was no 10 page long thread about it either...

chopinskate · Oct 14, 2018

yume said:
Trusova already made history twice this season. First quad combo, first quad lutz. She's also the first to land three different quads. So three times already. Good for ladies skating.

Oh, yes, she did indeed land the first ratified 4+3 combo for the ladies' field, too! Don't remember the details there, though.

4everchan said:
the reason : it's discussed in competition forums but not so much on the edge. Many threads on the edge were more active before the forum was split apart.. when one constantly gets warnings about what one can post in fan fest or in the edge, it is a turn off. And I say this, having being generously given a competition pass, which I have used to discuss certain events (when I am not sleeping lol) ...

Trusova's quads were discussed ad nauseam last season... but this year, it is true that stuff that happens in competitions doesn't necessarily get much coverage in the edge... people like to discuss things as they happen,not 3-4 days later.

Sure.

4everchan said:
Did anyone discuss much that Gogolev was the first junior to land 3 different quads in a program? That he was the first to land the 4lz and the youngest one ever?

It was mentioned of course, but there was no 10 page long thread about it either...

No one decided to start one. It could bear discussion in its own thread. I don't think his 4Lz was sufficiently rotated, nor was it done on a clearly outside edge. His 4S was fine, IIRC. Not sure I remember what he did with the 4T.

Baron Vladimir · Oct 14, 2018

Also, did someone before her land 3 triple-triple combos in FP (3F-3T, 3Lz-3Lo, 3Lz-Eu-3S)? :bow:

chopinskate · Oct 14, 2018

Elucidus said:
I congratulate Trusova with this HUGE achievement which she did being under the weather just after the illness :agree: Also while arguments about right being the first is bound to happen considering that Scherbakova already did two 4Lutzes in local competition just recently

I am sure that it was Trusova's right from the beginning considering her first attempt in Kaunas
https://youtu.be/eJ3GvpMh_cE?t=58 which was just wrongly judged as UR. So in the end justice is restored

P.S.: could someone please post here link to exact rule about ratifying the jump as "first done" criterias? I hope +0 GOE will be enough Despite updated already entry in her wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandra_Trusova I am still have some doubts about ISU recognition of it considering their unwillingness to do it in Kaunas.

I'll try to dig it up, but it shouldn't be hard to find anyway. I know Wikipedia users differentiate between "first jump" and "first jump with positive GOE", but not sure if the ISU does the same.

4everchan · Oct 14, 2018

chopinskate said:
No one decided to start one. It could bear discussion in its own thread. I don't think his 4Lz was sufficiently rotated, nor was it done on a clearly outside edge. His 4S was fine, IIRC. Not sure I remember what he did with the 4T.

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1819/jgpsvk2018/jgpsvk2018_JuniorMen_FS_Scores.pdf

those are protocols... no carrots, no edge calls, overall neutral and positive GOE... whatever you think it is rotated enough or not, the tech panel ratified his jump

Shayuki · Oct 14, 2018

It's a significant achievement but everyone sort of saw it coming. It also was her only quad performed there. So it wasn't considered such a big deal as I guess it's not as impressive as some of her past achievements.

I'd have wanted Shcherbakova to receive this honor. Oh well. Hopefully she'll get the first 4Lutz combo and double 4Lutz at least.

Mathman · Oct 14, 2018

chopinskate said:
It can use a bit more rotation. Seems barely rotated, which shouldn't fetch too much GOE ...

Well, she got 0 GOE, a few pluses a few minuses. Still, 11.50 points is 11.50 points.

Next up, elevate her 2A to a 3A! :yes:

Alex65 · Oct 14, 2018

I think many people are accustomed to the fact that Sasha (and Anna) are doing really incredible things. Therefore, something that one year ago might have seemed absolutely unrealistic and unfeasible never, happens today almost imperceptibly.

chopinskate · Oct 14, 2018

Mathman said:
Well, she got 0 GOE, a few pluses a few minuses. Still, 11.50 points is 11.50 points.

I think -1 GOE would have been more fair with the landing. It's whatever in juniors, and she has time to fine tune it.

Mathman said:
Next up, elevate her 2A to a 3A! :yes:

Still not sure if her axel is the best it can be. It looks less powerful than Kostornaia's, for instance. Haven't looked too closely this season, but her executions last season seemed to almost use her right side of the body to lurch into rotation.

neusw · Oct 14, 2018

I think with time her 4Lz will improve significantly. If you compare her 4T from last year and this year--last year she would go up on a tilted axis and land very forward, whereas in Kaunas she launched straight up like a rocket and got much better height on it, landing it fully backwards and rotated. The same with her 4Lz right now--she is going up on a tilted axis and not getting the maximum height possible, so the landings are often hooked and leaning. If she got the height on the 4Lz like she is able to on the 4T, she would have sufficient time to complete the rotation and land squarely. We've seen a few good ones from her in practice, where she's gotten a straight axis on takeoff and landed well.

With the physics of the Lz jump, a properly executed one is supposed to be higher than the equivalent toe jump, so I expect to see much cleaner 4Lzs from her in the future.

Baron Vladimir · Oct 14, 2018

chopinskate said:
I think -1 GOE would have been more fair with the landing. It's whatever in juniors, and she has time to fine tune it.

Well, it surely was given one negative feature for weak landing (i dont think the jump deserves more than one negative feature, she didnt touch the ice with hand), but if some judges found one positive feature in the jump they finished with 0 as a final result. I'm fine with both -1 and 0 GOE, +2 is too much i think but we were seeing pluses all the time for similiary landed mans quads.

Trusova and Quads

Elucidus

Match Penalty

chopinskate

moriel

Elucidus

Match Penalty

chopinskate

chopinskate

Elucidus

Match Penalty

chopinskate

yume

🍉

4everchan

chopinskate

Baron Vladimir

chopinskate

4everchan

Shayuki

Mathman

Alex65

chopinskate

neusw

Baron Vladimir

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