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Sub but in spanish https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtTXREUXRgE
How Do We Measure Musicality in FS?
- Thread starter Izabela
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It's only a fragment of the program and they don't talk about choreography here :/ The whole program is over 2 hours.
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This...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg2lPhTYGNw . oh, i know it's not his best ever, I know skaters today have improved on jumps, steps, spins and everything. But I just love this, and his musicality is top notch. Sorry, I realise you wanted some objectiviation of musicality, but this is the thing. Yeah, it's 1980, no quads. And impossible to judge objectively I suppose. Sorry.
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- Feb 23, 2014
Funny, it is, opinions are to be respected.
Your opinion is that Yuzuru is not musical, a lot of the commentors in tv from the Olympics don´t agree with you... by example:
New York Times
It´s ok to have different opinions...
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- Dec 25, 2012
Some current skaters I love (besides Yuzu 
) who have very good musicality.
Misha Ge -All his programs
Denis Ten -Those step sequences!
Joshua Farris -Give me love SP
Shoma Uno -Great interpretation of Drama in music
Deniss Vasilijevs -Whole being is musical
Eladj Balde -Sound of Scilence SP
Jason Brown -Spins and transitions are always musical
Satoko Miyahara -each note and nuance is aknolwledged
Wakaba Higuchi -Dramatic and dynamic music suits her best
Carolina Costner -Maturity and poise
Kiira Korpi -Innate musicality
Laurine Lecavelier -Innate musicality
I don't have a measuring tape for musicality though. I just know it when I see it. Maybe judges have a listed criteria for it?
When the music enhances the skating and the skating enhances the music, you know it's good.
) who have very good musicality. Misha Ge -All his programs
Denis Ten -Those step sequences!
Joshua Farris -Give me love SP
Shoma Uno -Great interpretation of Drama in music
Deniss Vasilijevs -Whole being is musical
Eladj Balde -Sound of Scilence SP
Jason Brown -Spins and transitions are always musical
Satoko Miyahara -each note and nuance is aknolwledged
Wakaba Higuchi -Dramatic and dynamic music suits her best
Carolina Costner -Maturity and poise
Kiira Korpi -Innate musicality
Laurine Lecavelier -Innate musicality
I don't have a measuring tape for musicality though. I just know it when I see it. Maybe judges have a listed criteria for it?
When the music enhances the skating and the skating enhances the music, you know it's good.
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You can mention other *far more* musical skaters yourself
Hey let's not start with the X vs. Y here. If you think there are skaters who exhibit great musicality, please do share. I honestly didn't come here as a big Yuzuru fan myself (but I'm learning a lot about his process here).
I've watched this before and really love it. I don't think musicality has to do with having the quads, better spins, or steps but how you can still creatively express the music with what you technically have. And for improvement I would love skaters to have the mindset of improving their elements not to have the scores, but also to achieve the choreography they envision; that their program is still a performance.
Although in that case I put the blame more on the scoring system.
ETA: And I know the scoring system has been debated over and over here but what do you guys think about adding judges in the pool that will only look out for presentation, choreography and interpretation? Where their knowledge is not on figure skating but in the arts, (maybe musically trained or dancers?) Because I think no matter how we argue that "artistry" is "subjective" there are marks there that you can say objectively say one is better than the other, and for me the best group of people who can judge those are the folks who are trained in the field of arts. In the history of figure skating, are there any been judges whose only background are choreography or music?
I've watched this before and really love it. I don't think musicality has to do with having the quads, better spins, or steps but how you can still creatively express the music with what you technically have. And for improvement I would love skaters to have the mindset of improving their elements not to have the scores, but also to achieve the choreography they envision; that their program is still a performance.
Although in that case I put the blame more on the scoring system.
ETA: And I know the scoring system has been debated over and over here but what do you guys think about adding judges in the pool that will only look out for presentation, choreography and interpretation? Where their knowledge is not on figure skating but in the arts, (maybe musically trained or dancers?) Because I think no matter how we argue that "artistry" is "subjective" there are marks there that you can say objectively say one is better than the other, and for me the best group of people who can judge those are the folks who are trained in the field of arts. In the history of figure skating, are there any been judges whose only background are choreography or music?
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Exactly my point Izabela. I love Yuzu today (he really is a superb skater who interprets the music very well), but I just can't forget the lovely musical skates of Robin Cousins, Toller Cranston and John Curry - and even then they interpreted it each so differently but all three so fantastically and in their own way. Mind you, I do like a bit of athleticism too, but it would really be very nice if there were a way to judge musicality. The difficulty is we generally do recognise when a skater (or pair/dance team) is really into the music = I mean S/M were absolutely fabulous in that sense without quad twists or quad salchow throws - but it's so improbably difficult to turn that into valid marks. I regret I can't help with that, but I can enjoy the real musical greats. Here's another...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgYzaXX8ft0. No gold medal, terrible twist lift but the musicality is superb. Powerful programme, and skated perfectly to the music.
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There are others with more natural musical tendencies but it’s admirable how he’s worked and improved that aspect of his skating.
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Then why don't you mention your favourite? It's a free thread.
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Oh, yes. Shoma is very musical. More so sometimes than some of our favourites like Yuzu and Fernandez. But he needs to skate less young (difficult,as he is young!), which is rather a nasty sentiment. This sounds awful, but so far Javi and Juzu managed to do better even on those PCS scores. But no doubt about it: Shoma gets the music. In fact, it always surprises me that he can passionately skate but still remains quiet when his results are counted. Love the guy, even If I favour another...
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Huh? I see Uno's one color and there's nothing of his own understanding of the music at all. He moves to this place or that place seems like his coach told him to do.
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- Feb 4, 2012
It's no fluke that he was on the podium with Yuzuru and Javier. When Shoma debuted in the same year as Boyang Jin, he only had one Quad, the 4T. He sees himself more as an artistic skater than a jumper, and that's also because he only has been jumping Quads and the 3 Axel from 2015 onwards. So while he is of the generation of Chen and Jin, he had quite a different start more similar to the older generation. Stephane Lambiel who often works with Shoma on choreography also only praises Shoma when asked about him and his qualities, his versatility is often mentioned. The contrast of last seasons SP, soft and fluid 'Ladies in Lavender' to the sharpness of the Tango 'Ballada para un Loco', for example. I can't wait to see what he comes up with next!
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I don't have any training in music or dance so I can't articulate on this subject, but I know what I like when I see it.
Among the current skaters, Giada Russo and Denis Ten are my favorites in terms of musicality. My jaws dropped when I saw Giada perform The Red Violin (still hate the music with passion) and though Denis had his ups and downs, when he is on the way he uses his body to weave through music is simply stunning.
Among the current skaters, Giada Russo and Denis Ten are my favorites in terms of musicality. My jaws dropped when I saw Giada perform The Red Violin (still hate the music with passion) and though Denis had his ups and downs, when he is on the way he uses his body to weave through music is simply stunning.
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- Feb 23, 2014
I don't have any training in music or dance so I can't articulate on this subject, but I know what I like when I see it.
Among the current skaters, Giada Russo and Denis Ten are my favorites in terms of musicality. My jaws dropped when I saw Giada perform The Red Violin (still hate the music with passion) and though Denis had his ups and downs, when he is on the way he uses his body to weave through music is simply stunning.
Is Denis going to words? Thought he was injured but haven´t seem a notice of withdrawal 
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- Sep 23, 2017
I think musicality is innate - both seeing it and having it 
IMO here are some musical skaters!
-Satoko Miyahara
-Carolina Kostner
-Yuzuru Hanyu
-Misha Ge
-Stephane Lambiel
-Alena Kostornaia
-Evgenia Medvedeva
-Mai Mihara
-Giada Russo
-Deniss Vasiljevs
-Jason Brown
IMO here are some musical skaters!-Satoko Miyahara
-Carolina Kostner
-Yuzuru Hanyu
-Misha Ge
-Stephane Lambiel
-Alena Kostornaia
-Evgenia Medvedeva
-Mai Mihara
-Giada Russo
-Deniss Vasiljevs
-Jason Brown
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- Mar 17, 2015
Shoma times his strokes with the music and changes his speed with the change of tempo, changes his spins positions and places his jumps or transitions on the beats, actually starts and finishes his moves following the phrasing of the music and is always 100% committed to his music, the mood and the texture of it. The emotional commitment he has to it certainly comes from his own understanding and processing of the music and it has been evident during his all career even when he was a junior.
I understand you have no interest in Shoma's skating other than bashing every single part of it but don't pretend you're talking about musicality when your best example for it is Hanyu whose commitment to his music varies greatly.
no transition, i think in the current pairs Sui/Han are incredibly musical and quite often to a fault since they actually lose levels to not be off their music.
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- Feb 10, 2014
For me, musicality is simply the awareness of and sensitivity to a piece of music - its style, construction, dynamics, phrasing, rhythms, and emotional tone, for lack of a better word.
A performer is able to express their response to music so that others can perceive it. So for me, a singer or other musician, a dancer, or a skater is musical when they appear to be listening to, and responding to, changes in their music.
I think that if you’re not musical yourself, you’ll have a hard time judging else someone’s musicality; if you are musical, you’ll judge a performer’s musicality based first of all on your own response to the music - that is, if you respond strongly to a particular phrase or dynamic that the skater ignores or responds to differently than you do, you likely won’t think much of their musicality.
I would say that a good choreographer will set movement to music in a way that somehow expresses and clarifies their own response to the music. A really musical skater or dancer will not only perform the choreography but will deepen it
A performer is able to express their response to music so that others can perceive it. So for me, a singer or other musician, a dancer, or a skater is musical when they appear to be listening to, and responding to, changes in their music.
I think that if you’re not musical yourself, you’ll have a hard time judging else someone’s musicality; if you are musical, you’ll judge a performer’s musicality based first of all on your own response to the music - that is, if you respond strongly to a particular phrase or dynamic that the skater ignores or responds to differently than you do, you likely won’t think much of their musicality.
I would say that a good choreographer will set movement to music in a way that somehow expresses and clarifies their own response to the music. A really musical skater or dancer will not only perform the choreography but will deepen it
