Evgenia Medvedeva withdraws from Worlds 2018

Spirals for Miles · Mar 14, 2018

Miss Ice said:
Yeah, and at one time Alina was only 1 point ahead of Wakaba, remember? But now, if she's clean, she probs gets an OGM boost no matter what. Also, PSA I really like Alina but I hate how much of a reputation party PCS has become.

This is also when Wakaba was clean and Alina wasn't perfectly clean. Now that Alina is clean, I think it's fair that she's farther ahead of Wakaba...

yume · Mar 14, 2018

Spirals for Miles said:
This is also when Wakaba was clean and Alina wasn't perfectly clean. Now that Alina is clean, I think it's fair that she's farther ahead of Wakaba...

There is not fairness in her scores anyway.

samkrut@mail.ru · Mar 14, 2018

Miss Ice said:
Yeah, and at one time Alina was only 1 point ahead of Wakaba, remember? But now, if she's clean, she probs gets an OGM boost no matter what. Also, PSA I really like Alina but I hate how much of a reputation party PCS has become.

Yes,she was 1 point ahead with a fall. If she were clean she would be surely more than 1 point ahead of cleanWakaba even then at her first senior international competition.

moriel · Mar 14, 2018

Spirals for Miles said:
Well, I think it is wishful thinking to think that Kaetlyn will beat Alina. Alina is much more consistent than Kaetlyn, for starters. There's a much greater chance of Kaetlyn melting down than there is Alina melting down, not like I'd want either to happen, just stating facts. And if Alina does make a mistake, she's got a bit of cushion in BV over Kaetlyn anyway. Putting the 3F-3T and 2A-3T in the first half just isn't competitive with someone with a 3Lz-3Lo and 2A-3T in the second half. Both will get Olympic medalist PCS, but Alina will probably get a bit bigger of boost for being the reigning Olympic gold medalist (sounds wonderful writing that, good job Alina )

We still got to see Osmond to skate clean tbh.
If we take Olys as reference, there was a 9 point difference between them. If judges overlook Osmond's Lz, the difference goes down to 5 points, lets say.
And now Alina is an Olympic Champion, so put more reputation into that.
Also, Alina has no Worlds gold medal yet, and we know how hungry and competitive Eteri girls are.

Considering the consistency for both ladies, I think while there is a chance that Alina finishes second, it is highly unlikely.

yume · Mar 14, 2018

Even if they bomb furiously Zagitova, Osmond and Kostner will get insane PCS and insane GOEs on clean elements (and others will get URs and edgde calls) . So it will be difficult for anyone else to be on podium.

chuckm · Mar 14, 2018

Kaetlyn did have to skate after Zagitova and before Medvedeva at the Olympics. And even though she skated clean, she lost to both of them, n'est-ce pas? That really happened.

Osmond4gold · Mar 14, 2018

chuckm said:
Kaetlyn did have to skate after Zagitova and before Medvedeva at the Olympics. And even though she skated clean, she lost to both of them, n'est-ce pas? That really happened.

And as many former skaters and current coaches have openly stated since, had the judges judged on actual performance versus reputation, the actual point different would be much less than 8 between Gold and Bronze.

Some have even suggested, KO should have won. "Juxtaposed" as per your previous statements, chuckm, I think not!

Tolstoj · Mar 14, 2018

Miss Ice said:
Yeah, and at one time Alina was only 1 point ahead of Wakaba, remember? But now, if she's clean, she probs gets an OGM boost no matter what. Also, PSA I really like Alina but I hate how much of a reputation party PCS has become.

It has always been like that if you go back, on every discipline in figure skating.

You could complain about Alina's overscored PCS, i could talk about Kaetlyn insane boost on the GOE to let her scores go closer with the two russians (even though i don't know she deserved it), on even how many times Carolina Kostner was saved by the judges despite some very clear mistakes in programs that are already easy technically by today standards.

drivingmissdaisy · Mar 14, 2018

Osmond4gold said:
And as many former skaters and current coaches have openly stated since, had the judges judged on actual performance versus reputation, the actual point different would be much less than 8 between Gold and Bronze.

A few of the judges had Kaetlyn first in the LP and second in the SP, so she's definitely in the mix when she's clean. Had she earned Evgenia's GOE on the lutz, Kaetlyn would have been above 155, and who knows how much a perfectly clean LP would have boosted her PCS.

BlueCat28 · Mar 14, 2018

drivingmissdaisy said:
A few of the judges had Kaetlyn first in the LP and second in the SP, so she's definitely in the mix when she's clean. Had she earned Evgenia's GOE on the lutz, Kaetlyn would have been above 155, and who knows how much a perfectly clean LP would have boosted her PCS.

Her score was caused not wanting to have Miyahara on the podium.

Ziotic · Mar 14, 2018

BlueCat28 said:
Her score was caused not wanting to have Miyahara on the podium.

That makes zero sense, but I would love to hear your reasoning for thinking so?

Tolstoj · Mar 14, 2018

Osmond4gold said:
And as many former skaters and current coaches have openly stated since, had the judges judged on actual performance versus reputation, the actual point different would be much less than 8 between Gold and Bronze. Some have even suggested, KO should have won. "Juxtaposed" as per your previous statements, chuckm, I think not!

There were also so many people who thought Carolina should have won at Sochi.

We all love to dream but then we have to remind ourself that those aren't real.

Kaetlyn's frontloaded programs aren't gold medal material, as much as Caro really needed a 3-3 in the fs in 2014 to compete for the gold or silver.

Even Evgenia with the reputation of someone who won everything in the past 2 years couldn't do anything against Alina, so it's not even a reputational thing that much.

chuckm · Mar 14, 2018

Osmond4gold said:
And as many former skaters and current coaches have openly stated since, had the judges judged on actual performance versus reputation, the actual point different would be much less than 8 between Gold and Bronze. Some have even suggested, KO should have won. "Juxtaposed" as per your previous statements, chuckm, I think not!

??? juxtaposed means positioned between and was a reference to Kaetlyn's skating order between Zagitova and Medvedeva. Nothing derogatory intended.

Of course Kaetlyn's fans always think she should win, even though she has never won against either/or Evgenia / Alina. But fans aren't any more objective than the judges they criticize.

Look at the TES for the three skaters---that is recorded by the tech team, not the judges, and is not based on reputation:

SP
45.30 Zagitova
43.19 Medvedeva
41.83 Osmond

FS
79.18 Medvedeva
81.62 Zagitova
76.50 Osmond

bobbob · Mar 14, 2018

Osmond4gold said:
And as many former skaters and current coaches have openly stated since, had the judges judged on actual performance versus reputation, the actual point different would be much less than 8 between Gold and Bronze. Some have even suggested, KO should have won. "Juxtaposed" as per your previous statements, chuckm, I think not!

Kaetlyn had a pretty good reputation though, and it's not like she got low PCS by any means. She made a mistake on the lutz and didn't have as much backloading...other than that she basically scored the same as Alina and Evgenia across both programs, which seems as generous as it gets for her.

By "some" I'm guessing you mean yourself, given your user-name.

OniBan · Mar 15, 2018

chopinskate said:
Because it didn't change the rankings? Anyway, I'm not sure whether or not Mire made a big deal out of that.

It would have change the rankings if it meant Miyahara getting the bronze instead of Osmond.
Which is why I think a lot of these protests (flutzing oh all the flutzing!! overscoring over this and over that are more political than anything rather than an actual concern with seeing wrong things put right).

Your statement re ranking also drives the point home that people just use these arguments to push their own favoured skater rather than being concerned with an actual problem. Even if it doesn't change the ranking the fact still remained what should be called by a technically caller is not called.
For example, just because someone steals and no one realised it/ specifically poorer for it makes the former any less wrong.

chopinskate · Mar 15, 2018

OniBan said:
It would have change the rankings if it meant Miyahara getting the bronze instead of Osmond.
Which is why I think a lot of these protests (flutzing, overscoring over this and over that are more political than anything rather than an actual concern with seeing wrong things put right)

Miyahara had URs uncalled, so no, no it wouldn't have.

Judging the event with everything called as it should have been, PC placements likely would not have changed.

Judging the event with everything called as it should have been, Sochi placements would have changed. That's the reason fans, and not just Yuna fans have a problem there.

Your statement re ranking also drives the point home that people just use these arguments to push their own favoured skater rather than being concerned with an actual problem. Even if it doesn't change the ranking the fact still remained what should be called by a technically caller is not called.

It really doesn't drive home that. That is a false conclusion, not even remotely based in the realm of logic. People have a problem with bad tech calls or calls in general when they change the rankings at an event as major as the Olympics. Another example? The 2002 controversy. It's an extremely prestigious competition that occurs every four years! Of course people were angry! Just like people would have been angry if this year something wrong had happened! People were gearing up to be angry about P/C winning over V/M after the SD P/C had! And, FYI, a few people were mad that Med's Flutz wasn't called, as they believe that Zag having a clearer margin of victory could have lifted some of the backlash off her. People are mad that the ones assigned to do their jobs aren't doing them properly. It just wasn't a majority of the crowd, as it didn't affect anything.

The reason so many more people spoke up about Yuna might also have to do with the fact that this crowd included the every-four-year viewers. They likely don't even keep up with the tech calls! Is there a conclusion to be drawn from there? Maybe.

xeyra · Mar 15, 2018

chuckm said:
??? juxtaposed means positioned between and was a reference to Kaetlyn's skating order between Zagitova and Medvedeva. Nothing derogatory intended.

Of course Kaetlyn's fans always think she should win, even though she has never won against either/or Evgenia / Alina. But fans aren't any more objective than the judges they criticize.

Look at the TES for the three skaters---that is recorded by the tech team, not the judges, and is not based on reputation:

SP
45.30 Zagitova
43.19 Medvedeva
41.83 Osmond

FS
79.18 Medvedeva
81.62 Zagitova
76.50 Osmond

TES is the judges responsibility, though. TES is BV + GOE and judges give GOE.

chuckm · Mar 15, 2018

The major part of TES is what the technical panel assigns.

In the FS, Osmond has only 4 jumping passes in the bonus zone; Medvedeva has 5 and Zagitova, 7. Osmond will always be behind in TES on that basis alone, and if she isn't completely clean, her TES shrinks even more.

charlotte14 · Mar 15, 2018

:roll9: so now we are debating that Osmond should have won??

Mango · Mar 15, 2018

Hubris is never good when it comes to figure skating. I'd have thought after the ice dance results in PyeongChang some of you would have understood that. But memories are short, I guess.

Anyways is there any idea when we can next expect to see Medvedeva? A summer competition or ice show? I'm sure many will be curious to know what programs she has next season. Maybe we need to wait for an interview by Ilia?

Evgenia Medvedeva withdraws from Worlds 2018

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