2018-19 Russian Ice Dance

gmyers · Mar 24, 2018

The extreme catastrophe continues

The 2014-2018 quad
No gpf medals
1 gp win
No world medals
No Olympic medal
2 spots for worlds 2019

It’s one of the most extreme collapses of a program in history

Krylova returning to Russia but will team with Tchaikovskaya

Zhulin posted video of navka trying to teach Sinitsina and katsalapov skating

bramweld · Mar 24, 2018

gmyers said:
The extreme catastrophe continues

The 2014-2018 quad
No gpf medals
1 gp win
No world medals
No Olympic medal
2 spots for worlds 2019

It’s one of the most extreme collapses of a program in history

TBH this thread is just too sad. Dance is the only discipline that doesn't have the maximum three spots. They rehabilitated the men, but dance, goodness gracious.

They dismissed their most talented ice dancer four years ago and have never recovered since. Her partner used the time wisely though to show the world how unreliable and inconsistent he can be all by himself.

gmyers, let's see what their juniors bring maybe they will surprise us in the new season. S/K are considered model attractive but when you pay attention to the skating especially their SD, its sort of sad just how incompatible they really are.

Barb · Mar 24, 2018

gmyers said:
The extreme catastrophe continues

It’s one of the most extreme collapses of a program in history

I love your drama!!! :drama:

Bukin already know if he will be allowed to compete in 2022?

Luna Cat · Mar 24, 2018

If Weaver/Poje and Cappellini/Lanotte retire, Stepanova/Bukin could move up to the top five ...

volk · Mar 24, 2018

Let's be optimistic: it can't get any worse.

gmyers · Mar 24, 2018

chapis said:
I love your drama!!!

Bukin already know if he will be allowed to compete in 2022?

Russia is readmitted to IOC so Russia can choose s/b but s/b didn’t impress here at all!! Just one spot over z/g? Why should s/b be number one? They didn’t medal or anything! They stunk at this world! Barely beat z/g! Got horrible tes. If they don’t move to dubreuil what good are they? Z/g are equal basically. I’m just saying no special treatment for totally unimpressive s/b. She’s not going anywhere. She can’t skate.

Luna Cat said:
If Weaver/Poje and Cappellini/Lanotte retire, Stepanova/Bukin could move up to the top five ...

So could z/g! If s/b wasn’t here it would have been z/g! S/b are nothing special. That’s clear. Because she can’t skate.

bramweld said:
TBH this thread is just too sad. Dance is the only discipline that doesn't have the maximum three spots. They rehabilitated the men, but dance, goodness gracious.

They dismissed their most talented ice dancer four years ago and have never recovered since. Her partner used the time wisely though to show the world how unreliable and inconsistent he can be all by himself.

gmyers, let's see what their juniors bring maybe they will surprise us in the new season. S/K are considered model attractive but when you pay attention to the skating especially their SD, its sort of sad just how incompatible they really are.

Juniors same thing for almost 10 years now! A whole lot of nothing! Because system is terrible- all coaches are terrible!

So maybe krylova and navka can help!!

volk said:
Let's be optimistic: it can't get any worse.

Hope not!

bramweld · Mar 24, 2018

gmyers said:
Russia is readmitted to IOC so Russia can choose s/b but s/b didn’t impress here at all!! Just one spot over z/g? Why should s/b be number one? They didn’t medal or anything! They stunk at this world! Barely beat z/g! Got horrible tes. If they don’t move to dubreuil what good are they? Z/g are equal basically. I’m just saying no special treatment for totally unimpressive s/b. She’s not going anywhere. She can’t skate.

So could z/g! If s/b wasn’t here it would have been z/g! S/b are nothing special. That’s clear. Because she can’t skate.

Juniors same thing for almost 10 years now! A whole lot of nothing! Because system is terrible- all coaches are terrible!

So maybe krylova and navka can help!!

Please H/D became world beaters when they left Krylova. She is an establishment, old school coach, if you aren't starving yourself to a frazzle and you don't look like Bobrova or Stepanova, she's not interested. She doesn't even think much of Tessa, loves Scott, but she respects Meryl. You guys need to pay attention to the words that come out of her mouth rather than her features. She was way too OTT for me as a skater as well.

Word to the wise, she is not a miracle worker.

gmyers · Mar 24, 2018

bramweld said:
Please H/D became world beaters when they left Krylova. She is an establishment, old school coach, if you aren't starving yourself to a frazzle and you don't look like Bobrova or Stepanova, she's not interested. She doesn't even think much of Tessa, loves Scott, but she respects Meryl. You guys need to pay attention to the words that come out of her mouth rather than her features. She was way too OTT for me as a skater as well.

Word to the wise, she is not a miracle worker.

Yes but she’s like the one area of hope there is! So in order basically of talent in ice dance coaching there is 1. Montreal 2. Michigan cities 3. Milan 4. Moscow. She is transferring from a Michigan city! I’m hoping she can change some stuff- desperately!!!

Anyasnake · Mar 24, 2018

Gmyers, do you expect Russian couples to always be 1st ?

Because one thing that could be great is that figure skating become so well-distributed around the world that we'd have too many nationalities winning. Not just Russia, USA, Canada, Japan,...

Cherub721 · Mar 24, 2018

Anyasnake said:
Gmyers, do you expect Russian couples to always be 1st ?

Because one thing that could be great is that figure skating become so well-distributed around the world that we'd have too many nationalities winning. Not just Russia, USA, Canada, Japan,...

Isn't there a huge difference between always being first and not winning any medal this quad (and only one bronze in the past 8 years)? I think the ice dance world is really missing something without good Russian couples, and V&M have basically been the most "Russian" dancers of the past 3 quads (in terms of having the skating qualities that the Russians used to have).

bramweld · Mar 24, 2018

Cherub721 said:
Isn't there a huge difference between always being first and not winning any medal this quad (and only one bronze in the past 8 years)? I think the ice dance world is really missing something without good Russian couples, and V&M have basically been the most "Russian" dancers of the past 3 quads (in terms of having the skating qualities that the Russians used to have).

Another soul that sympathizes with my pain. What happened? Why are the fundamental skating skills of Stepanova, Bobrova and Sinitsina and others so awful and yet Ilinykh seems to have such comanding control of her blade? Is this something you are taught or is it really a natural gifting? Where have all the Klimovas and Grishuks gone? Is it because they migrated to the states?

Cherub721 · Mar 24, 2018

bramweld said:
Another soul that sympathizes with my pain. What happened? Why are the fundamental skating skills of Stepanova, Bobrova and Sinitsina and others so awful and yet Ilinykh seems to have such comanding control of her blade? Is this something you are taught or is it really a natural gifting? Where have all the Klimovas and Grishuks gone? Is it because they migrated to the states?

Ilinykh had wonderful SS, but even then, the programs were never well constructed through the transitions. I just don't understand it either. It seems like at the junior level they are still selecting for the long leggy Domnina types, and they look great and really polished compared to other juniors, but then they turn senior and everything looks like a big struggle. They have to pike at the waist so much to get those edges in the footwork (and still get level 2s a lot anyway...) and the lifts look labored. I don't get it when they have such wonderful pairs women... but then again years ago I never understood why their pairs and ice dance ladies were so good and the single's ladies weren't! They seem to not be good at all 3 disciplines at the same time.

gmyers · Mar 24, 2018

Anyasnake said:
Gmyers, do you expect Russian couples to always be 1st ?

Because one thing that could be great is that figure skating become so well-distributed around the world that we'd have too many nationalities winning. Not just Russia, USA, Canada, Japan,...

But dance this quad in terms of world medals in like Russian ladies 2006-2010! Russian dance is now equal to Russian ladies and there was a lot more commentary from many about the horrible state of Russian ladies from 2006-2010 than Russian ice dance 2014-2018. Remember stuff like “crapova sisters”? Now Russian ice dance had its crapova sisters with s/b and b/s.

Cherub721 said:
Isn't there a huge difference between always being first and not winning any medal this quad (and only one bronze in the past 8 years)? I think the ice dance world is really missing something without good Russian couples, and V&M have basically been the most "Russian" dancers of the past 3 quads (in terms of having the skating qualities that the Russians used to have).

Exactly!

Forget winning golds! How about a world medal since 2013! Olympic bronze 2014. There’s a total catastrophic collapse! I can only imagine there was so much success for so long nobody really cares! Just enjoying this Russia success free period in ice dance! But what about Russian ice dancers? Aren’t they upset they can’t win any world or Olympic medals now? Don’t they want to? Wouldn’t they all want to train with dubreuil or someone who can help them win a world medal?

It’s an extreme disaster that’s sad!

bramweld said:
Another soul that sympathizes with my pain. What happened? Why are the fundamental skating skills of Stepanova, Bobrova and Sinitsina and others so awful and yet Ilinykh seems to have such comanding control of her blade? Is this something you are taught or is it really a natural gifting? Where have all the Klimovas and Grishuks gone? Is it because they migrated to the states?

Almost Every non Russian ice dance team in the world trains in North America! Russians can to! Russian dancers can follow other Russians to be coached in North America. I mean Turkish and Slovak teams can afford to train in North America but Russia doesn’t have the money of Slovakia and turkey? That’s not the issue! Radical extremist nationalism in Russian ice dance must be abolished! That’s the problem! Their program is now the worst in the world! Time to stop being nationalistic!

Cherub721 said:
Ilinykh had wonderful SS, but even then, the programs were never well constructed through the transitions. I just don't understand it either. It seems like at the junior level they are still selecting for the long leggy Domnina types, and they look great and really polished compared to other juniors, but then they turn senior and everything looks like a big struggle. They have to pike at the waist so much to get those edges in the footwork (and still get level 2s a lot anyway...) and the lifts look labored. I don't get it when they have such wonderful pairs women... but then again years ago I never understood why their pairs and ice dance ladies were so good and the single's ladies weren't! They seem to not be good at all 3 disciplines at the same time.

Well this is a hatred of ijs and preference for Russian drama and belief only one skater in a team needs talent! That must stop!

bramweld · Mar 24, 2018

Remember EI was being coached/manipulated (I can't find a more apt word) by Morozov who didn't believe in choreography and if we'd paid attention closely enough, we'd realise that Katsalapov had limitations then and he hated transitions. He could barely do lifts or twizzles, transitions were just out of the question so her skills were pretty much wasted. Either she's going to get a really good partner soon and change the face of ice dance for Russia or she's going to become a great coach.

Nightcrawler · Mar 24, 2018

bramweld said:
Remember EI was being coached/manipulated (I can't find a more apt word) by Morozov who didn't believe in choreography and if we'd paid attention closely enough, we'd realise that Katsalapov had limitations then and he hated transitions. He could barely do lifts or twizzles, transitions were just out of the question so her skills were pretty much wasted. Either she's going to get a really good partner soon and change the face of ice dance for Russia or she's going to become a great coach.

I hate to be pessimistic, but I don't see either of them going anywhere. Ilinykh is almost 24, by no means old, but she ice dance teams don't get successful overnight. Assuming she finds the perfect partner (which itself is not an easy task), they would need more or less two seasons to gel/see results. If we want a dominant Russian team, we can bet good money it's NOT gonna be Ilinykh&any imaginary partner. And it's definitely not gonna be Katsalapov; he hasn't solved his twizzle/lift issues from 2014, if anything he has regressed and Sinitsina, though lovely, is not a match for Ilinykh. Plus, they seem to have very little chemistry for a team who's also a couple off the ice.

If Russia really wanted to make a statement, they would've sent Bobrova&Solovyev to Milan, with a decent shot at a medal and guaranteed 3 spots for 2019. It would probably be like Canada's 3rd spot in the ladies event, but it's better to have a spot too many than the other way around. As of now, I don't see any hope for the foreseeable future. All the teams with potential are still juniors, not to mention P&C, H&D and G&P are not going to retire any time soon, so I expect some medals after 2023.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Mar 24, 2018

LOL, tell us how you really feel gmyers! :laugh:

Russia was 7th and 8th at Worlds. That adds up to 15, which is just shy of what's needed for 3 spots. So it's not THAT bad. Unfortunately for Russia, G/P stepped up their game at Worlds, especially in the SD.

But S/B got a FD personal best and Z/G got a SD and FD personal best.

There are positives, but just because Russia isn't winning as much as it used to doesn't mean there's been this monumental collapse.

It's just other nations have been doing it better and Russia is sticking to its classical style too much, which the judges aren't buying these days.

That's why I think there's potential in teams like Stepanova/Bukin who can break this histrionics-for-the-judges shtick that has been so successful for Russian ice dancers in the past. Now the focus is on technique, difficulty, levels, and presenting something avant garde and not painfully traditional. It's a process, but I think we'll see Stepanova/Bukin crack the top 5 next year, and start to threaten for GP wins.

gmyers · Mar 25, 2018

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
LOL, tell us how you really feel gmyers!

Russia was 7th and 8th at Worlds. That adds up to 15, which is just shy of what's needed for 3 spots. So it's not THAT bad. Unfortunately for Russia, G/P stepped up their game at Worlds, especially in the SD.

But S/B got a FD personal best and Z/G got a SD and FD personal best.

There are positives, but just because Russia isn't winning as much as it used to doesn't mean there's been this monumental collapse.

It's just other nations have been doing it better and Russia is sticking to its classical style too much, which the judges aren't buying these days.

That's why I think there's potential in teams like Stepanova/Bukin who can break this histrionics-for-the-judges shtick that has been so successful for Russian ice dancers in the past. Now the focus is on technique, difficulty, levels, and presenting something avant garde and not painfully traditional. It's a process, but I think we'll see Stepanova/Bukin crack the top 5 next year, and start to threaten for GP wins.

“Winning As much as it used to” russia isn’t winning anything! You are talking about Russia’s 7 time champions and national silver medalists not having ANY Olympic ice dance medal and only one world medal! Not going to GPf! Not winning cup of Russia! Huge monumental catastrophe. Yes they do need radical changes and to import people who know ijs and what ice dance is like in 2018 but you can’t get that change if you are wildly celebrating in the streets about Russians being 7th and 8th at worlds. The two don’t go toegether! They can’t be congratulated on catastrophic and awful performances and be encouraged to make radical changes you even talk about! Top 5 is horrible catastrophic failure. That’s b/s level! Where are the medals?

Nightcrawler said:
I hate to be pessimistic, but I don't see either of them going anywhere. Ilinykh is almost 24, by no means old, but she ice dance teams don't get successful overnight. Assuming she finds the perfect partner (which itself is not an easy task), they would need more or less two seasons to gel/see results. If we want a dominant Russian team, we can bet good money it's NOT gonna be Ilinykh&any imaginary partner. And it's definitely not gonna be Katsalapov; he hasn't solved his twizzles or lifts issues from 2014, if anything he has regressed and Sinitsina, though lovely, is not a match for Ilinykh. Plus, they seem to have very little chemistry for a team who's also a couple off the ice.

If Russia really wanted to make a statement, they would've sent Bobrova&Solovyev to Milan, with a decent shot at a medal and guaranteed 3 spots for 2019. It would probably be like Canada's 3rd spot in the ladies event, but it's better to have a spot too many than the other way around. As of now, I don't see any hope for the foreseeable future. All the teams with potential are still juniors, not to mention P&C, H&D and G&P are not going to retire any time soon, so I expect some medals after 2023.

This is exactly the problem! Even bobrova and soloviev would not have been reliable for a medal. That’s why Russia couldn’t get them to go to Milan. Bobrova and soloviev didn’t want to end their season at a depleted worlds not medalist. They had no chance to medal and didn’t do anything to help get three spots for Olympics last year. They were lucky to be 8th in the short dance last year. Probably same thing this years worlds.

For Russia to start medlaing in 2023 they have to adopt modern ijs now! And adopting modern ijs now could help win medals before 2023!

CanadianSkaterGuy · Mar 25, 2018

gmyers said:
“Winning As much as it used to” russia isn’t winning anything! You are talking about Russia’s 7 time champions and national silver medalists not having ANY Olympic ice dance medal and only one world medal! Not going to GPf! Not winning cup of Russia! Huge monumental catastrophe. Yes they do need radical changes and to import people who know ijs and what ice dance is like in 2018 but you can’t get that change if you are wildly celebrating in the streets about Russians being 7th and 8th at worlds. The two don’t go toegether! They can’t be congratulated on catastrophic and awful performances and be encouraged to make radical changes you even talk about! Top 5 is horrible catastrophic failure. That’s b/s level! Where are the medals?

This is exactly the problem! Even bobrova and soloviev would not have been reliable for a medal. That’s why Russia couldn’t get them to go to Milan. Bobrova and soloviev didn’t want to end their season at a depleted worlds not medalist. They had no chance to medal and didn’t do anything to help get three spots for Olympics last year. They were lucky to be 8th in the short dance last year. Probably same thing this years worlds.

For Russia to start medlaing in 2023 they have to adopt modern ijs now! And adopting modern ijs now could help win medals before 2023!

Uh, NO chance? Really? They beat Weaver/Poje and Capellini/Lanotte (the eventual bronze and 4th place finishers at WC2018) at the Olympics.

Dr. Jenn · Mar 25, 2018

Seriously, gmyers, give it a rest. The Russian ice dancers performed respectably. More support and less shouting, please.

gmyers · Mar 25, 2018

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Uh, NO chance? Really? They beat Weaver/Poje and Capellini/Lanotte (the eventual bronze and 4th place finishers at WC2018) at the Olympics.

That’s doesnt mean much. They were probably going to be 8th in the SD again it’s bobrova and soloviev! They skipped these worlds for a reason. They knew they wouldn’t medal.

Dr. Jenn said:
Seriously, gmyers, give it a rest. The Russian ice dancers performed respectably. More support and less shouting, please.

No they didn’t. Not for Russian ice dance teams. You are past the point of any expectation for them and treat them like a Norwegian team or Luxembourg team.

2018-19 Russian Ice Dance

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bramweld

Barb

Luna Cat

volk

gmyers

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gmyers

Anyasnake

Cherub721

bramweld

Cherub721

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Nightcrawler

CanadianSkaterGuy

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CanadianSkaterGuy

Dr. Jenn

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