2018-19 Russian Ice Dance | Page 5 | Golden Skate

2018-19 Russian Ice Dance

Mattieu

Medalist
Joined
Dec 22, 2010
The ladies need to focus less on losing weight (albeit there is a need for balance) and looking like ballerina's but rather sculpting the kind of muscles needed to perform the requirements of COP.

This is funny that you criticise the Russian ladies, as they are leading the world at the moment!
Trusova coming through with 2 quads and you see they need more muscles?
 

bramweld

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
This is funny that you criticise the Russian ladies, as they are leading the world at the moment!
Trusova coming through with 2 quads and you see they need more muscles?

Not criticizing but making an observation. The physique required for a singles skater is very different from that of an ice dancer. But these are just my thoughts. I remember Meryl saying once that it takes so much strength to make something look smooth and easy. When you look at their current crop of senior IDs its so clearly obvious its one of the key things that they lack. If you look at even S/K at their last gala, Katsalapov has to practically place Sinitsina everywhere, its like she doesn't have that agility and coordination to manage her blade to make things look effortless, it still looks hard like she's think about it. Ilinykh had that it spades. OTOH, whatever Stepanova lacks in basics she makes up for it in attack, confidence and her ability to dance. If Tiffany continues to improve as she should she will have much better skills than them all, it's just Jonathan looks sort of puny next to her.
 

madison

Record Breaker
Joined
May 2, 2015
Russian ice dance needs a complete coaching team. i mean, right now, they have Zhulin who allegedly has some creative moments, but he's also lazy and not very involved in his students' training, they have Kustarova, who can teach good basics, but lacks creativity and Svinin and Zhuk who are creative, but keep missing the levels.
I don't think that any of these coaching teams work out really hard the skaters. The Russian ice dance needs someone like Eteri in singles, who takes very serious every detail and works really word.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
It’s a disgraceful interview! The whole idea is that Russia perfected ice dance style and training methods. Isu rules are being used to repress Russians and their perfection.
 

Casual

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 26, 2018
It’s a disgraceful interview! The whole idea is that Russia perfected ice dance style and training methods. Isu rules are being used to repress Russians and their perfection.

It's a typical interview. If you want to get really appalled, read some native Russian press. According to them, any poor performance by Russian athletes is a (CIA-led) conspiracy, LOL. :biggrin:

The only Russian dancing pair I liked from the current crop are Tiffany and Jonathan. They have a very nice style, and better taste in music.
 

Mattieu

Medalist
Joined
Dec 22, 2010
It's a typical interview. If you want to get really appalled, read some native Russian press. According to them, any poor performance by Russian athletes is a (CIA-led) conspiracy, LOL. :biggrin:

The only Russian dancing pair I liked from the current crop are Tiffany and Jonathan. They have a very nice style, and better taste in music.

I must admit, that despite Tiffany and Jonathan not being a typical Russian team, I really like them.
Maybe that is the reason, they are not typically Russian?
Or is it just a soft spot for Tiffany when she used to skate for France?
 

Casual

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 26, 2018
I must admit, that despite Tiffany and Jonathan not being a typical Russian team, I really like them.
Maybe that is the reason, they are not typically Russian?
Or is it just a soft spot for Tiffany when she used to skate for France?

I first saw them at European championship, and instantly liked them.

Apart from their style, (which I prefer to a more typical Russian fare), I felt that they were really into it. Like they were not just artificially trying to create a moment, but like they were truly in their bubble, completely absorbed and very happy in their dancing. They looked authentic and effortless. Very good chemistry.
 

bramweld

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Russian ice dance needs a complete coaching team. i mean, right now, they have Zhulin who allegedly has some creative moments, but he's also lazy and not very involved in his students' training, they have Kustarova, who can teach good basics, but lacks creativity and Svinin and Zhuk who are creative, but keep missing the levels.
I don't think that any of these coaching teams work out really hard the skaters. The Russian ice dance needs someone like Eteri in singles, who takes very serious every detail and works really word.

Agreed. 100 %. The Russian coaching teams are simply not paying enough attention to every small but important detail.
Quite frankly some of their ice dancers just really don't have the talent or the intelligence required to even form a formidable team.
 

Casual

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 26, 2018
OTOH, whatever Stepanova lacks in basics she makes up for it in attack, confidence and her ability to dance. If Tiffany continues to improve as she should she will have much better skills than them all, it's just Jonathan looks sort of puny next to her.

I like Stepanova, but by herself. She can dance. She seemed more talented than her partner.
 

bramweld

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
I like Stepanova, but by herself. She can dance. She seemed more talented than her partner.

This is true she is the better dancer than Bukin he has the better skating basics, but I didn't find him particularly interesting in their FD this season, he was better in their tango last season. This program was Stepanova's and he was just along for the ride. Hopefully they will chose more wisely next season.
 

madison

Record Breaker
Joined
May 2, 2015
Agreed. 100 %. The Russian coaching teams are simply not paying enough attention to every small but important detail.
Quite frankly some of their ice dancers just really don't have the talent or the intelligence required to even form a formidable team.

No, they have the talent, but I personally think that the coaching teams aren't doing what they should do, what i've said: paying attention to every small detail and working really hard.
 

bramweld

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
No, they have the talent, but I personally think that the coaching teams aren't doing what they should do, what i've said: paying attention to every small detail and working really hard.

So it begs the question if there is the talent why aren't they all not working harder. I mean aren't they not tired of these mediocre results by their own standards. Because Zhulin had to say quite recently that S/K need to learn to be prepared for every event and simply do the work that is required. Does a coach really need to say that? Why did they have that ridiculous fall in their recent gala on choreography that was not new in any way? Were they not practicing it?

I honestly believe S/B work really hard, so much so that they peak maybe too early in the season and make ridiculous mistakes at the end of it. So yes I agree their coaches are lazy, case in point B/S and S/Ks SD and FD this season. How ridiculous can Zhulin get, but I do believe some of their students don't lag far behind in comparison to the work ethic of those across the world. Do we realize the work G/P must have done to get their Bond FD into shape for Worlds and also beat S/B? So maybe we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. :)
 

Anyasnake

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 28, 2016
I honestly believe S/B work really hard, so much so that they peak maybe too early in the season and make ridiculous mistakes at the end of it. So yes I agree their coaches are lazy, case in point B/S and S/Ks SD and FD this season. How ridiculous can Zhulin get, but I do believe some of their students don't lag far behind in comparison to the work ethic of those across the world. Do we realize the work G/P must have done to get their Bond FD into shape for Worlds and also beat S/B? So maybe we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. :)
I did not understand who is lazy ? S/B coaches or Zhulin ? (Because S/B coaches look extremely invested and are very respected)

S/B come across to me as very very hard workers and Sasha looks like a fierce competitor, who do not care about a 109 FD. She wants it, you can tell, and that might be the difference.
G/P must have worked like crazy too... both their World performances were insanely good. In the FD there was not a doubt to whom was the best to me between G/P and S/B this time.
 

bramweld

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
I did not understand who is lazy ? S/B coaches or Zhulin ? (Because S/B coaches look extremely invested and are very respected)

S/B come across to me as very very hard workers and Sasha looks like a fierce competitor, who do not care about a 109 FD. She wants it, you can tell, and that might be the difference.
G/P must have worked like crazy too... both their World performances were insanely good. In the FD there was not a doubt to whom was the best to me between G/P and S/B this time.

Zhulin is the lazy one. S/B's coaches are milking everything possible out of Sasha and Ivan.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Agreed. 100 %. The Russian coaching teams are simply not paying enough attention to every small but important detail.
Quite frankly some of their ice dancers just really don't have the talent or the intelligence required to even form a formidable team.
All the details are written in the ijs guides and in the protocols for p/c and v/m and h/d and s/s! It is not true that the compulsory dance was eliminated! Every second of sd and fd should be looked at as compulsory with level 4 requirements the guide.
 

bramweld

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
All the details are written in the ijs guides and in the protocols for p/c and v/m and h/d and s/s! It is not true that the compulsory dance was eliminated! Every second of sd and fd should be looked at as compulsory with level 4 requirements the guide.

True. That is why I honestly believe the issue isn't only with the coaches, but the talent also is wanting. Maybe it's just Russia's time to reap benefits of less than stellar decisions. The issue is Russian ice dance is about form first then substance. The leaders at the helm, Tarasova and her camp still believe that this is the 80's and they still believe everyone has to be built like Stepanova/Sinitsina/Bobrova and Katsalapov and be able to skate to the classics, period. In the west and other regions of the world they believe the opposite, they believe in using ballet as a platform from which to launch into a more blended style and most importantly, beautiful basic skating. A good tailor and make-up artist can do a world of good, it is the technique that must be mastered.

EDIT: Technique isn't mastered at 23 and 24 but rather ages 11 - 13 or thereabouts.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
True. That is why I honestly believe the issue isn't only with the coaches, but the talent also is wanting. Maybe it's just Russia's time to reap benefits of less than stellar decisions. The issue is Russian ice dance is about form first then substance. The leaders at the helm, Tarasova and her camp still believe that this is the 80's and they still believe everyone has to be built like Stepanova/Sinitsina/Bobrova and Katsalapov and be able to skate to the classics, period. In the west and other regions of the world they believe the opposite, they believe in using ballet as a platform from which to launch into a more blended style and most importantly, beautiful basic skating. A good tailor and make-up artist can do a world of good, it is the technique that must be mastered.

EDIT: Technique isn't mastered at 23 and 24 but rather ages 11 - 13 or thereabouts.

But you see so much talented skaters being paired with untalented skaters crippling the talented skaters potential and future! That’s is because of tarasova and 80’s or 6.0 belief that only one skater needs talent. Soviet federation used to break up couples all the time and sometimes it would take a team of two great skaters and give the hugely talented skater A less talented partner! But in ijs they need to break up the hold methods! They pair talented and untalented but don’t break them up for equal partnerships. Now two talented skaters are much better for ijs than skaters that “look good” together! Why is Bukin still with Stepanova?!?! Why? Why why?
 

bramweld

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
But you see so much talented skaters being paired with untalented skaters crippling the talented skaters potential and future! That’s is because of tarasova and 80’s or 6.0 belief that only one skater needs talent. Soviet federation used to break up couples all the time and sometimes it would take a team of two great skaters and give the hugely talented skater A less talented partner! But in ijs they need to break up the hold methods! They pair talented and untalented but don’t break them up for equal partnerships. Now two talented skaters are much better for ijs than skaters that “look good” together! Why is Bukin still with Stepanova?!?! Why? Why why?

gmyers, that era has ended. For better or for worse the majority of ice dance couples in Russia are trending towards off-ice couples or platonic friendships in which the male partner is clearly superior to his female partner. There is nothong to be done about it. They all claim that their idols are V/M but they don't seem to grasp that this is a pair of equals in which power is shared. In much the same way as it was with Grishuk and Platov. For all her craziness Grishuk and Platov have an eviable record that is only equalled by V/M. So the history is there but they seem not to be learning from it much.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
gmyers, that era has ended. For better or for worse the majority of ice dance couples in Russia are trending towards off-ice couples or platonic friendships in which the male partner is clearly superior to his female partner. There is nothong to be done about it. They all claim that their idols are V/M but they don't seem to grasp that this is a pair of equals in which power is shared. In much the same way as it was with Grishuk and Platov. For all her craziness Grishuk and Platov have an eviable record that is only equalled by V/M. So the history is there but they seem not to be learning from it much.

There is a great idolization of v/m in Russia! But coaches like kustarova who did say all levels and goes of +3 are really dictated by politics. So while there is a great beleif that v/m are enormous talents the fact that they almost never dropped below level 3 or even 4 is only due to politics and if s/b had the political support all their elements would always be level 4 with +3 goe! So that’s just a beleif that all technical panels are crooked! Which is a fact in Russia! All the panels in Russia events were crooked! Every team in top 3 for years 2010-2012(before they hired outsider) except if their was a major mistake - all elements level 4. One nationals saw every element of r/t get level 4. I almost wish r/t would reunite! I mean how could they be worse than s/b?!?!?
 

bramweld

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
There is a great idolization of v/m in Russia! But coaches like kustarova who did say all levels and goes of +3 are really dictated by politics. So while there is a great beleif that v/m are enormous talents the fact that they almost never dropped below level 3 or even 4 is only due to politics and if s/b had the political support all their elements would always be level 4 with +3 goe! So that’s just a beleif that all technical panels are crooked! Which is a fact in Russia! All the panels in Russia events were crooked! Every team in top 3 for years 2010-2012(before they hired outsider) except if their was a major mistake - all elements level 4. One nationals saw every element of r/t get level 4. I almost wish r/t would reunite! I mean how could they be worse than s/b?!?!?

Give it a rest. The cycle of life just has to play out itself. :)
 
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