2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

theharleyquinn · Feb 28, 2019

The positive thing I see about 4CC and Euros champions getting a free ticket to Worlds is that 4CC has a credibility problem, and creating that incentive to get more participants there each year and put 4CC and Euros on more equal footing wouldn't be a bad idea. Not sure how that would be impacted in an Olympic year, but not a bad idea nonetheless.

Scott512 · Feb 28, 2019

Georgya said:
You think way to big of them if you see this debacle as a "strategy". I think is poor planning. The risk of russia loosing three spots next year is not so big as some people love to write here in the style of russian ice dance tragedy 2.0.

It's the opposite: one of the easiest years for russian ladies to keep 3 spots

Lechat said:
Did TAT think the same after Alina’s victory las year ?

VenusHalley said:
Her season's best comes from Nebelhorn "everybody is overscored" Trophy, with rare two clean programs.

We could "try" 8 spots for Russia. But to quote Sheldon Cooper, we could also stop using the letter M, but that would be isguided and oronic.

Asides from Tuktik, there is not really anybody whom I would want to see, if that would mean knocking out others. Because I am a sucker for the first groups skaters. There are plenty competitions for big fed skaters to compete. I will watch them there, I would even watch the "Russo-Japanese tournament", but in the World's I want to see ladies from the whole world. Because it brings us such gems as Ivet Toth skating to AC/DC...

Maybe we should make it mandatory to have a skater skating to rock tunes every year and the said skater gets an automatic spot? J/k.

Its okay Alina deserves her cushion to ride this season. I commend her for moing forward.

I wasnt being serious with 8 spots. But 4 or 5 would be fine.

Sugar Coated · Feb 28, 2019

Scott512 said:
6 spots?Sports is about the best and competition not everyone gets in.

If that were the case then we should do away with countries and federations. Everyone supports themselves and competes for individual glory. Which I’m totally okay with but goes against the idea of state sponsored athletes.

Mathman · Feb 28, 2019

Scott512 said:
Russia is in a golden era of ladies figure skating that will surpass anything any country has ever done in ladie figure skating!

Although ... the Austro-Hungarians won every ladies' figure skating championship from 1908 to 1926. Lily Kronberger and Opika von Meray Horvath were the Medvedeva and Zagitova of the Austro-Hungaian Empire.

Seruleane · Feb 28, 2019

skylark said:
Good question. I don't know, but I'm guessing that what she expressed at that time was more emotional.

The other thing she said was that the scoring in both instances was very close. Alina at the Olympics and Evgenia at the Final Russian Cup both led after the SP, and that impacted the final score and result.

So in that sense, TAT was comparing the two events. But the implication of the first poster was that TAT said Evgenia's win at FRC was comparable to Alina's winning the Olympics. That isn't how I read TAT's comments.

Nope- I think Lechat understood my point. I was laughing at the irony of TAT, who repeatedly downplayed Alina’s win at the Olympics in favor of the true Olympic Champion “of our hearts” Evgenia Medvedeva, now siding with Evgenia after she won similarly over Liza. We all understandably make exceptions for our favorites though.

oatmella · Feb 28, 2019

ISU world standings have been updated: http://www.isuresults.com/ws/ws/wsladies.htm

Ladies SP final group at Worlds: Alina, Evgenia, Kaori, Satoko, Rika, and Bradie

gravy · Feb 28, 2019

Can we just send Lipnitskaya to Worlds? I think we could all use a huge dose of Yulia-ness in our lives ATM.

Scott512 · Feb 28, 2019

Sugar Coated said:
If that were the case then we should do away with countries and federations. Everyone supports themselves and competes for individual glory. Which I’m totally okay with but goes against the idea of state sponsored athletes.

I don't want anything done away with sugar I just want a couple things tweaked.

Scott512 · Feb 28, 2019

gravy said:
Can we just send Lipnitskaya to Worlds? I think we could all use a huge dose of Yulia-ness in our lives ATM.

Mathman said:
Although ... the Austro-Hungarians won every ladies' figure skating championship from 1908 to 1926. Lily Kronberger and Opika von Meray Horvath were the Medvedeva and Zagitova of the Austro-Hungaian Empire.

Exactly!

Georgya · Feb 28, 2019

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
I'm taking the most recent World Championship to refute the suggestion that Russia should have more spots at Worlds. It's great to say you have a big talent pool but the performance of Russia at the most recent Worlds hardly justifies it having more spots. Also what does Worlds 4 or 5 years ago have to do with Worlds today? If Canada does abysmally at these Worlds and only gets 1 spot, I'm not gonna be like - well in the past 3 years we've had 3 medals including gold, so that means we're still deserving of more spots.

Although I should say to my earlier remark, that Medvedeva probably would have done better than Konstantinova (but there's no way of telling that ... everyone assumed Jin would be a medal contender at 2018 Worlds and we saw what happened there).

You missed the point of my selective tit for tat argument. The x number per country rule is 50% bad/ 50% good in my opinion. I assume here nobody believes that ONLY Russia should have more spots at Worlds. I would get rid of the totally unfair rule of number of spots established by prior placements. It gives me a bad taste that Osmond won a place for Aurora Cotop and it's like this for any country. I would make the SP a qualification round with 4 or 5 skaters from russia, japan, canada, us.... etc and the best 24 get to be in the final LP, no limit per country. Or a special qualification competition for WC with its own SP and LP. Sure not gonna happen, but I'am the sort of person who wants to see the best of the best competing and not diversity. We're all barking for nothing, they won't change the rules, considering that for example in table tennis, which added a 2/country limit prior to the London Oly, this was a calculated attempt to limit chinese dominance.

Manitou · Feb 28, 2019

Georgya said:
You missed the point of my selective tit for tat argument. The x number per country rule is 50% bad/ 50% good in my opinion. I assume here nobody believes that ONLY Russia should have more spots at Worlds. I would get rid of the totally unfair rule of number of spots established by prior placements. It gives me a bad taste that Osmond won a place for Aurora Cotop and it's like this for any country. I would make the SP a qualification round with 4 or 5 skaters from russia, japan, canada, us.... etc and the best 24 get to be in the final LP, no limit per country. Or a special qualification competition for WC with its own SP and LP. Sure not gonna happen, but I'am the sort of person who wants to see the best of the best competing and not diversity. We're all barking for nothing, they won't change the rules, considering that for example in table tennis, which added a 2/country limit prior to the London Oly, this was a calculated attempt to limit chinese dominance.

I agree that Kaetlyn winning spot for Aurora is an unfunny joke. The rule that previous championship affect the next one is ridiculous by any mean. One year and the next one are completely different worlds, different power maps and very often are unrelated. You cannot apply one year power distribution to another year. Skaters come and go, retire or take breaks, juniors enter the stage. The power distribution in figure skating is NOT continuous at all.
The system was created in the 6.0 era, because back then it was the only criteria, but now it makes no sense. With points we have now some level of "objective" measurement. We can now compare performances from different times and from different places by different skaters.

I think that participation in WC should be dictated by CURRENT SEASON only. And there is a way to do it.
(1) Increase the number of skaters per country to four
(2) ISU comes up with new rules how to distribute number of skaters per country based on current season points only.
(3) Top six skaters with highest points from the current season earn their WC participation automatically no matter what, with the correction of (1)
(4) After (3) is applied we apply (2) by passing decision to the feds, just as we do it now.

Osmond4gold · Feb 28, 2019

We all knew the rules going into Worlds. I will say that under the present rules Russia must be feeling like they won the loto, as they barely earned 3 spots or 13th in placement versus Canadian women who easily won their right in 8th. As a result, Skate Canada has every right under the rules to send who they wish based on previous World placements, versus some here who live with a coulda, shoulda, woulda, attitude.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Feb 28, 2019

Scott512 said:
Did you watch the olympics? Thats so much bigger than worlds. Worlds after olympics? Lol. Russia is in a golden era of ladies figure skating that will surpass anything any country has ever done in ladie figure skating!

You put so much on worlds last year and Zhenya an all time great ladies skater wasnt even there. That kind of changed things last worlds for the Russian girls for whatever
its worth. But keep harping on last years worlds where Russia had a weak team compared to this year. Others have moved on to this years team that will do alot better than last years team where Masha and Stasya failed to deliver. Alina OGM should not have even been there after being ill after olympics. Dont most OGM skip worlds? I thought so.

Weak team? Alina won the Olympics and every full competition leading up to it, and Sotskova was 2nd at the GPF and Russian Nationals.

Who were the skaters from Russian Nats who you would have sent to 2018 Worlds who were "stronger" than Alina and Sotskova, who would have surely beaten Osmond and the Japanese?

malya · Feb 28, 2019

Seruleane said:
Nope- I think Lechat understood my point. I was laughing at the irony of TAT, who repeatedly downplayed Alina’s win at the Olympics in favor of the true Olympic Champion “of our hearts” Evgenia Medvedeva, now siding with Evgenia after she won similarly over Liza. We all understandably make exceptions for our favorites though.

I don't have time to read anything here but there is finally some talk here that I like <3
It's insane what went down with TAT and the whole lobby vs Alina and at the same time other attacks from influencial social media people. And it was even more insane how this was not seen because of some fight against Et*ri.

But talk a narrative people don't like you get silenced and mobbed.

Poor Alina.

Ice Dance · Feb 28, 2019

A thought worth having:

If you only have 6 countries that bother to compete in your sport because athletes from only 6 countries can get into the top 24, then you do not have an Olympic sport. In order to qualify as an Olympic sport, the sport must be valid in a number of countries.

moriel · Feb 28, 2019

Question: did anyone translate the latest interviews with mothers of Trusova and Shcherbakova?
(this interview https://tass.ru/sport/6142411)

Mathman · Feb 28, 2019

Osmond4gold said:
We all knew the rules going into Worlds. I will say that under the present rules Russia must be feeling like they won the loto, as they barely earned 3 spots or 13th in placement versus Canadian women who easily won their right in 8th. As a result, Skate Canada has every right under the rules to send who they wish based on previous World placements, versus some here who live with a shoulda, woulda, coulda attitude.

I think it's the "shoulda" part that posters are discussing. Everybody knows the rules, but that doesn't mean that the ISU rules can't be improved.

Maybe a system centered more on the individual athlete than on the prerogatives of the national federation would improve the sport. In the long run the question of who might benefit more, Russia or Canada, is kind of off track, to me.

malya · Feb 28, 2019

https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/5c28...evoi-na-kubke-rossii-5c7604638964fb00b3c746cb

TAT tries to get this narrative: If you call the cup final unfair then the win at the Olympics is also. You call this crooked judging? Ok, then the Olympics were too.

There were a lot of other people in the Russian beau monde that made comments about Alina's fluke win/jumped an extra combo or how the judges have put her more points because judges worked for the wrong person. It was going on all the time and nobody was mentioning this.

Osmond4gold · Feb 28, 2019

Mathman said:
I think it's the "shoulda" part that posters are discussing. Everybody knows the rules, but that doesn't mean that the ISU rules can't be improved.

Maybe a system centered more on the individual athlete than on the prerogatives of the national federation would improve the sport. In the long run the question of who might benefit more, Russia or Canada, is kind of off track, to me.

My point is Mathman, this is the reality and not an "unfunny joke", as some here have called it here. You reap what you sow, and as a result of Kaetlyn and Gabby's efforts, Canadians women deserves their 3 spots at Worlds '19, regardless of some here who think it should not be, so.

Sam-Skwantch · Feb 28, 2019

moriel said:
Question: did anyone translate the latest interviews with mothers of Trusova and Shcherbakova?
(this interview https://tass.ru/sport/6142411)

Not that I’ve seen but this thread could really use something like that :pray:

2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

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