2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

Scott512 said:

I cant make out what she said. But people make mistakes and if EG said something wrong about Zhenya thatbis wrong. Humans make mistkes, EG was obviously still hurt by Zhenta leaving her Med made Eteri a great coach and Sambo 70 a great club. I am sure EG knows that in her heart.

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The thing is yes it is ok to be hurt .And I can understand this too but she is a grown up woman in her 40th who sadly is known to throw dirt on skaters who leave her. While zhenya has not said a bad word about her in any Interview I have read or heard . As an adult eteri should know better than to throw dirt onto her skaters name so openly , and I do think she knew exactly what she was doing there, adding oil to the fire of the haters of zhenya. Again the break up was handled badly on both sides. And I do not hate eteri at all. But this is just something that bothers me

Scott512 said:

I cant make out what she said. But people make mistakes and if EG said something wrong about Zhenya thatbis wrong. Humans make mistkes, EG was obviously still hurt by Zhenta leaving her Med made Eteri a great coach and Sambo 70 a great club. I am sure EG knows that in her heart.

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But let's make cut here cause this will just lead to discussions that were already more than once discussed in hereafter hotly , I don't really need that one more time again.cause soon others will tell their opiniontoo and than this becomes again a battlefield so to speak

fabienne1996 said:

Look at the comment above you for me that is not a passionate fan but someone who wants to turn statements around so to speak on the writer. We all know that vandeska is a fan of teamtutberitze and she said she doesn't hate eteri or alina just that this is her opinion and said user has nothing better to do than jump on her telling her that she should just say she doesn't like or rather hate alina and eteri. Which is not true as we know.

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I can't control anyone here I feel terrible that things sometimes get out of control. It says people are so passionate about their favorites. I certainly enjoy reading your and vandy's posts even if I dont agree sometimes on something. But I can tell that you and Vanderveska are deeply hurt by unfair comments aimed at Zhenya. I cant blame you. She gets alot of love too.

I truly hope that all of the skaters doing the best they can around the world are not negatively affected by negative comments from fans on message boards or anything like that.

fabienne1996 said:

But let's make cut here cause this will just lead to discussions that were already more than once discussed in hereafter hotly , I don't really need that one more time again.cause soon others will tell their opiniontoo and than this becomes again a battlefield so to speak

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Okay game set match.

Hoping for great free skates Friday.

Scott512 said:

I can't control anyone here I feel terrible that things sometimes get out of control. It says people are so passionate about their favorites. I certainly enjoy reading your and vandy's posts even if I dont agree sometimes on something. But I can tell that you and Vanderveska are deeply hurt by unfair comments aimed at Zhenya. I cant blame you. She gets alot of love too.

I truly hope that all of the skaters doing the best they can around the world are not negatively affected by negative comments from fans on message boards or anything like that.

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She gets a lot of love in her fanfest yes as do all other skater in their fanfest group. Which i am glad to be a part of. .

Scott512 said:

Okay game set match.

Hoping for great free skates Friday.

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Yep I hope so too for every skater.

Scott512 said:

I cant make out what she said. But people make mistakes and if EG said something wrong about Zhenya thatbis wrong. Humans make mistkes, EG was obviously still hurt by Zhenta leaving her Med made Eteri a great coach and Sambo 70 a great club. I am sure EG knows that in her heart.

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But the thing is I'm not even discussing whether Eteri hates Zhenya or not. I recognize the greatness in Eteri, and I'm not gonna make assumptions about how she feels, because feelings are complex. As I said before, this is something that I feel and I am aware that it's not right, nor fair, but it just is.

Vandevska said:

But the thing is I'm not even discussing whether Eteri hates Zhenya or not. I recognize the greatness in Eteri, and I'm not gonna make assumptions about how she feels, because feelings are complex. As I said before, this is something that I feel and I am aware that it's not right, nor fair, but it just is.

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Agreed.

Vandevska said:

But the thing is I'm not even discussing whether Eteri hates Zhenya or not. I recognize the greatness in Eteri, and I'm not gonna make assumptions about how she feels, because feelings are complex. As I said before, this is something that I feel and I am aware that it's not right, nor fair, but it just is.

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Actually is funny how the other circumstances sometimes affect who we are rooting for. For me it went the other way. I was a Zhenya fan, even after she moved to Orser I admired her commitent and her approach how she still want to improve her skating skills. The thing what made me to root more for Alina and Liza right now is the TAT involvement and her comments and Liza-staying-home-at-worlds (oh man, she could be the only lady to land 3As). I like Zhenya, I wish her the clean skate tomorow, I just cannot go over the Zhenya-TAT friendship

So some kind of similarity, you root less for Alina because of what Eteri said and I root less for Zhenya because of TAT. And at the end of the day, it just about two talented and hard-working girls who want to make theit dreams come true Good luck to both of them!

nips said:

Actually is funny how the other circumstances sometimes affect who we are rooting for. For me it went the other way. I was a Zhenya fan, even after she moved to Orser I admired her commitent and her approach how she still want to improve her skating skills. The thing what made me to root more for Alina and Liza right now is the TAT involvement and her comments and Liza-staying-home-at-worlds (oh man, she could be the only lady to land 3As). I like Zhenya, I wish her the clean skate tomorow, I just cannot go over the Zhenya-TAT friendship

So some kind of similarity, you root less for Alina because of what Eteri said and I root less for Zhenya because of TAT. And at the end of the day, it just about two talented and hard-working girls who want to make theit dreams come true Good luck to both of them!

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Amen!

Scott512 said:

Agreed.

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Btw, I pm-ed you

Vandevska said:

I'd love to have a reasonable explanation for this, but I don't. It's not something logical, it's simply one of those feelings where your brain doesn't have a say in. I've told myself multiple times that it's not fair to Alina, and it's not. But I just can't. Like, I recognize her good sides, which she has plenty, but it just stops there. I wanna clarify that I don't hate her, I just don't like her.
And thing is, if someone was saying bad things about Eteri I would fight them. Same for Daniil and Sergey. But in that specific situation, Eteri's words overflowed the cup for me and that was about it. I couldn't look back.
I'm pretty sure that you're aware how much I love that team. So I hope you won't try to spin this as if I have some revenge against the team.

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I just wanted to say that I think your posts were very honest and reasonable and not in the slightest could they be perceived as hate, if they were read with common sense at least. We all know how you rooted for Anna and Sasha during JWC and how excited you were to give Daniil and Sergey the presents.

And if we're at it, I'd like to share a confession of my own:

As a person, I really like Alina. In fact, if it was strictly personality wise, I could identify myself with her much more than with Zhenya. She is a bit more shy and introverted, doesn't seek the attention of the media and yet is able to go out there and perform in front of so many people, give interviews. This is something I really admire. I can also really connect with her love for dogs and animals in general. When she once said that animals can be the best friends because they never lie and you can always rely on them, I felt that. But then there's the fact that I'm not that fond of her artistry yet (even though it's remarkable how much she improved since last year) and that Zhenya is still my favorite skater. I don't know why but there's something that drew me in, right from the first time I saw her. I cannot help but root for her and she is the skater that will always hold my heart, as kitschy as it sounds.

And I feel like you, in theory, I have nothing against Eteri. I don't particularly like her, never have, even when Zhenya was still with her. I was okay with her because Zhenya seemed happy. And of course I recognize her strengths. She is incredible, truly the best at strategizing, optimising layouts to gain points and helping her students win a lot in a short period of time. She creates champions and she creates them quickly. Her girls go to seniors and usually sweep the ranks within their first year. So, I do see that and I give her credit for that. She is obviously the best coach at the moment for young girls. However, I cannot agree with how she treats students after they leave her and while I do not hate her and don't want gossip or lies being spread about her, this was the moment it became too much for me. When Zhenya left and she suddenly treated the girl she'd previously named as "the most mature skater of the group, second daughter" as the bad one. Because Zhenya is my favorite, this was the last straw. I don't hate her now either, I just don't really like her.

What does this have to do with Alina? Well, it shouldn't have to do anything. I want Alina, the person, to do well and be happy. She's a young girl and works hard, she deserves nothing but happiness. But I feel conflicted because I have problems with her coach and somehow, I can't keep the two things separate. I don't even know why. It works better with the juniors, maybe, it's because they're not part of this generation.

So, I think what people need to understand is, that these opinions are complicated. So, it's not at all that having problems with Eteri = hating her. It's not as simple as that. I appreciate some of her qualities and I would never go around like some people, making countless posts about how her students should all leave her or how she's the worst coach ever. But the bad things that have happened, kind of overshadow the good things for me. And that's why I have troubles rooting for her students 110% like I do for some other skaters. And I feel guilty about it. I can't change it, though, and I don't think it makes me (or you) a bad person. Those are feelings and opinions and the only thing that makes one bad is spreading lies and insulting. Because this is absolutely not necessary and should never happen, regardless of what we think or feel about somebody.

Worlds is happening and Russian Ladies thread is back discussing Zhenya leaving Eteri?

The split happened, it was badly done and Zhenya lost many fans. I wouldn't say Eteri lost many fans, since the ones she lost were Zhenya fans to begin with. Anyway, Zhenya and Eteri will reconcile and in 30 years figure skating fans will read this thread and laugh.

nips said:

Actually is funny how the other circumstances sometimes affect who we are rooting for. For me it went the other way. I was a Zhenya fan, even after she moved to Orser I admired her commitent and her approach how she still want to improve her skating skills. The thing what made me to root more for Alina and Liza right now is the TAT involvement and her comments and Liza-staying-home-at-worlds (oh man, she could be the only lady to land 3As). I like Zhenya, I wish her the clean skate tomorow, I just cannot go over the Zhenya-TAT friendship

So some kind of similarity, you root less for Alina because of what Eteri said and I root less for Zhenya because of TAT. And at the end of the day, it just about two talented and hard-working girls who want to make theit dreams come true Good luck to both of them!

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This was really interesting to read because it's exactly the opposite of what I experienced. And honestly, I get it. I'm glad for the support Zhenya has from TAT at the moment, even though I know that TAT is not necessarily fair person and very biased at that. I also don't like some of her comments towards other skaters. But in a way, after Zhenya moved to Canada, I felt like everyone was hating her so I was happy and relieved that there were at least powerful people behind her, who could protect her and that's why I tolerated TAT. Of course, this is a highly subjective feeling and I can understand how it can go the opposite direction.

And I think, "rooting" is an interesting word. I'd say that everyone who has contributed to this discussion wishes good skates for each girl, even if they might not be their favorite. So, I won't be sitting in front of Alina's skate, biting my nails and screaming for her to land the jumps anymore but I also would never want to see her fail. I think it's a bit like some of the skaters that we don't see as often and aren't as invested in: We wish good luck because that's what every person deserves that dares to go out there and perform in front of an audience, but we won't necessarily be too involved. I still like Alina as a person. When she smiled yesterday, looking so relieved, I was happy. Because in that moment, she was just a 16 year old, hardworking girl who'd just done her best and managed to rise above herself. And regardless of what I thought about her scores, her coaches or whether I root for her 110%, this was truly beautiful to see.

So: Good luck to all the Russian ladies tomorrow!

Vandevska said:

Scott512, here's a timestamp of her saying those words. September 17. Zhenya was in Canada by June 17.

I mean, just imagine my thoughts in that moment. It was a very strong blow for me. It was as if her negating all of Zhenya's success before, as if she couldn't have done it herself. And that's as absurd as saying Alina was/is only skating well when Evgenia is competing too.

https://youtu.be/xpbMy5Qfcc0?t=128

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You're missing the point of what Eteri said here. September 17, Alina was receiving abuse from all sides, TAT said her "eyes have no fire" after test skates, where I might add other skaters did not do so well either, and a bunch of skating elite still thought Alina's Olympic gold medal was "undeserved" and had no problems with telling that to every journalist who called them.

Is it wrong for Eteri to support her 16-year-old student? Her support meant a lot to Alina. And it is strange that you think Eteri was negating Evgenia's success when I would say most of Evgenia's success came prior to the 2018 season, when Alina wasn't in seniors.

zenskate said:

Worlds is happening and Russian Ladies thread is back discussing Zhenya leaving Eteri?

The split happened, it was badly done and Zhenya lost many fans. I wouldn't say Eteri lost many fans, since the ones she lost were Zhenya fans to begin with. Anyway, Zhenya and Eteri will reconcile and in 30 years figure skating fans will read this thread and laugh.

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I actually like the discussion that is happening right now because it's very calm and respectful and doesn't include the usual shouting and name-calling. And it IS interesting to read different opinions, especially on this topic, because it's a highly emotional one.

Well, I'm aware Zhenya lost many fans. But I think, at the same time, she also gained lots of new ones. And the fans that were fans of her from the beginning now go greater lengths to show her the love she still gets. Which I think it's great. This difficult year made many Zhenya fans stick together and be supportive of her but also of each other. That was a beautiful thing to see.

And of course there are new fans, too and we always welcome them. There's something inside humans that makes us root for the underdog, and by changing coaches, moving abroad, receiving hate and struggling this season, she's become just that. She still has tremendous support and I'm very happy that she experienced it and that it helped her move forward.

I don't know what will happen in the future. I would, actually, really like for them to reconcile or at least move on with the situation peacefully. I don't think there's hate between them at the moment, I guess they pretty much ignore each other and focus on what is important right now, which is: WORLDS! And that's good. I'm very much looking forward towards the FS and hope we can have a clean competition like we had during the SP.

zenskate said:

Posts with name-calling deleted :agree:

The split is still too emotional for some fans

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Well, it's an emotional topic, so I guess that's natural. 11 years is an awful long time. And people tend to pick sides. I think with time, it will be less important, less in the focus of fans and the media. Remember the Yuna and Brian split? That was drama as well. Sometimes, splits just don't happen as they're supposed to. That's sad, especially when the people involved shared a close relationship and worked together for a long time. But it's life and something things like that happen. And usually, it's never just one person, that is entirely to blame. Both Eteri and Zhenya could have handled the split better. But it's just, that after everything I've seen and experienced, I tend to pick "Zhenya's side" for a variety of reasons that have been presented her lots of times before, so I won't elaborate. I guess that this can be different for people and while I don't understand it, I accept it. The only thing I don't accept is making sarcastic, cruel and snide remarks which we have seen a lot so far this season.

zenskate said:

You're missing the point of what Eteri said here. September 17, Alina was receiving abuse from all sides, TAT said her "eyes have no fire" after test skates, where I might add other skaters did not do so well either, and a bunch of skating elite still thought Alina's Olympic gold medal was "undeserved" and had no problems with telling that to every journalist who called them.

Is it wrong for Eteri to support her 16-year-old student? Her support meant a lot to Alina. And it is strange that you think Eteri was negating Evgenia's success when I would say most of Evgenia's success came prior to the 2018 season, when Alina wasn't in seniors.

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Perhaps you are right. I don't think I ever really realized how bad people were when it comes to saying nasty things about Alina not deserving the OGM. Maybe it was just Eteri being supportive, but I definitely thought that part wasn't just because of that too. I do agree with the things she's saying about Alina, but perhaps she didn't have to mention Evgenia as well.
Hmmmm. Interesting anyway.

k

Fluture said:

I actually like the discussion that is happening right now because it's very calm and respectful and doesn't include the usual shouting and name-calling. And it IS interesting to read different opinions, especially on this topic, because it's a highly emotional one.

Well, I'm aware Zhenya lost many fans. But I think, at the same time, she also gained lots of new ones. And the fans that were fans of her from the beginning now go greater lengths to show her the love she still gets. I think it's great. This difficult year made many Zhenya fans stick together and be supportive of her but also of each other. That was a beautiful thing to see.

And of course there are new fans, too and we always welcome them. There's something inside humans that makes us root for the underdog, and by changing coaches, moving abroad, receiving hate and struggling this season, she's become just that. She still has tremendous support and I'm very happy that she experienced it and that it helped her move forward.

I don't know what will happen in the future. I would, actually, really like for them to reconcile or at least move on with the situation peacefully. I don't think there's hate between them at the moment, I guess they pretty much ignore each other and focus on what is important right now, which is: WORLDS! And that's good. I'm very much looking forward towards the FS and hope we can have a clean competition like we had during the SP.

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I can only agree, it´s interesting to read different opinions when they are expressed in a tolerant and constuctive way. We all see the same things, just from different perspective and it is good when we can share it and explain why we are thinking about it this way. Knowing the subjective opinion of each other get us a step closer to the objective

And about Eteri, not only her students are learning, Eteri herself is changing. After all, she is still a very young coach. The approach of Lipnitskaya-Eteri might differ from the Zagitova-Eteri and it is still not Eteri that will come tomorrow. I think this year was for her a challenge (besides Olympics and Zhenya-split, she was losing her mother in that time as well) and in the last couple of months, she shows us her emotional side few times, like the interview with Ted, her Christmas Instagram post with Lipnitskaya and Zhenya, etc. The time is changing. Next season in seniors, she won´t have only one strong skater anymore, there will be a whole team. Like we have just seen with junior 3As, it will be interesting to watch, anyone could win anytime. Maybe between the seasons, they start to do more ice shows together that has the potential to be one of the best in the world. All the girls will have the possibility to show their passion and talent regardless of the national team spots distribution and be as a team stronger.

Some nice skating by top ladies in the SP. Congratulations to them all, particularly to Alina Zagitova, Kaori Sakomoto and Elizabet Tursynbaeva on winning their Gold , Silver and Bronze medals

Special mention of Samodurova for a careful and clean skate that has effectively placed her in "joint 5th" spot along with 5 or 6 others. Now she can throw herself into her lively FS with abandon. Sofya has catapulted herself into World Championships this year, no doubt to her own surprise, and has dealt with the pressures and expectations and doubts with calmness and good cheer.

Most of all, what a fabulous SP performance Alina treated us all to on Wednesday, focused, confident, strong and utterly committed ... Alina at her brilliant best


Good luck to all and great skating for us on Friday!

:hap85: