2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

QueenOfTheRoad · Sep 20, 2018

Every country has his narrow-minded people who thinks in this pre-judiced pseudo-nationalistic way. As an emigrant myself i had to hear my share as well from the people back at home. I do not have a good opinion on this kind of people and frankly i block here those who are writing in this pattern, especially against young people, who have done nothing wrong apart of feeling themselves as part of the world instead as only a part of a country.

I remember back in time the backlash Weir (including on FS boards) got for being very enthusiastic about Russia. The stupidity doesn't die down it only spreads more quick its harm through the internet.

Sam-Skwantch · Sep 20, 2018

moriel said:
This is actually hard to explain for a non Russian person, since it takes a lot of national specifics.
Many of the things she said are basically not cool for your average Russian. For example, when she was raving how friendly people are in Canada, asking her how she is doing and so on, it caused many russian folks to facepalm (overall, in Russia, people are friendly with you the western way when they actually mean it. If a Russian asks you how are you, the person is genuinely interested on how you are doing, it is not a polite way to say hello. So we tend to think that western people are somewhat hypocritical for being friendly without actually meaning it, and we tend to think that people who take that for genuine friendly attitude are somewhat not smart).

FWIW: As someone from the US who grew up in a small “farm town” I can personally attest that when I say hello or ask people how they are doing I’m genuinely interested. I have a tendency to talk to people I hardly know on busses and trains now and I find their stories absolutely fascinating. I grew up in a town where everyone said hello and knew everything about you and your family and I carry this with me into this giant metropolis I currently reside in. To be honest...I’m often less interested in asking people I know well how they are doing because...well....I’m usually already aware and would prefer to skip their list of complaints. The people I know tend to do this more than random strangers

My point ultimately is...I can’t speak to Russia but in my experience there is a noticable difference between different culture and areas here in the US. When I’m walking around New York City for example I don’t interact with people the way I would in my hometown. Us “westerners” are quite a diverse group and I know that not all of us are friendly and genuinely interested in each other’s well being but the ones that say hello or ask how you are doing are probably genuinely interested. I know I am. I find people fascinating for some reason. Maybe it’s just curiosity but it’s not always fake

Actual question to Russian posters. Is Yulia sort of a rare bird of a personality in Russia or is she typical. She seems quite unique by my observation for any culture. A very kind and thoughtful soul if my perception is correct.

andromache · Sep 20, 2018

Tyranid said:
Agreed. I've read Bobrova's and Sotnikova's inerviews and statements. Those two are definitely not the best spokespeople... The "drip, drip, drip" comment was especially bad by Bobrova.

I just wouldn't like to see the same crap happen here as what goes on on runet.

Totally OT, but what did Bobrova and Adelina say that made people mad? I'm really just curious about it - not interested in bashing anyone.

Sam-Skwantch · Sep 20, 2018

Tyranid said:
Peter Tchernyshev did Gubanova's and Radionova's SP with the rap StSq. I'm not sure if he did Tsurskaya's program as well but the flailing during the StSq for Gubanova is his thing.

Im like...

gsk8 · Sep 20, 2018

Fluture said:
I don‘t follow Nepela since I don‘t have a lot of internet and live streams take too much. How‘s Polina doing??

Please keep competition chat in the Competition forums until it's over. Thanks!

Reddi · Sep 20, 2018

The arena wasn't full of Zhenya's supporters - it was full of regular FS fans who cheered for everyone. But Zhenya had an ultramega loud, active and obnoxious fans in bear masks who made the most noise. They cooperated via vk.com and were orginised and again super active. I'm not saying that that audience was against Zhenya no,no. The audience was ok with Zhenya but this overwhelming support came from particular group of couple hundreds of people. Speaking about loud minorities...

It's always funny how people abroad are thinking that they know what happens in Russia. I'm not talking to anyone in particular now just you know, in general.
Yeah Zhenya still has a die hards here in Russia and in no small amount. They aren't a majority though. Weren't at the test skates, aren't in general. Regular people who don't watch FS olny know Zhenya cause boy this spring Zhenya was everywhere. I mean everywhere! She came into Olympics as a clear favourite and there were articles on a way to printing, planned magasines covers, tv shows, radio broadcasts etc... You won't believe the lenght russian media went at to conseal the fact that our Olympic Champion isn't in fact Zhenya. Zhenya played all this straight. I can't remember the amount of times she was called an Olympic champion right in her face and reacted to it by giggling and saying "Thank you!" I've witnessed it several times. It stinked.

And then the may drama started and between Zhenya's "Journalists, mind your buisness, I continue to work with my coach" and "I'm going to the Worlds" all while Sambo girls openly said that Zhenya never showed up at the rink after Olympics, her ultimate refusal to meet Eteri directly during the march and april while she was transferring to Orser... And now she is saying that she decided to change coach in the night after the free skate.

She withdrew from Worlds and continued giving back and forth interviews swaying between "I was in the best shape at the Olympics" and "My trauma doesn't allow me to skate at all but I went to the show anyway". She bragged about not being on a diet and eating whatewer she wants and muched chocolate at press conference but now she's on channel first lamenting her years of strict diet and "look i can eat a watermellon now it's the first time I'm eating something on camera". She blamed russian choreographers (Averbukh, Daniil) for not letting her to have a word on her programs. Averbukh is pretty chill about his programs he isn't a dictator, everybody knows that. He debunked her words. Also her raving about Orser "opening her a completely new world that she never imagined to exist" in regards to her skating also rubbed people in the wrong way. Also "I haven't had friends in Russia, now I have" and "All my friends aren't speaking russian".

I can go on and on and on for hours. There was a lot! It just kept stacking for quite some time. I just want to say that there's a very solid reason that many russian folks perspective has changed ang their patience with Zhenya's run thin. I'm one of them and there're more it's not "just a vocal minority" as someone here tries to present. I don't know what Zhenya will do next and when she will again for the 100th time directly contradict herself. All that I (and many more people) can say about her both as a skater and as a person in these days - WHATEVER.

el henry · Sep 20, 2018

I am just in awe about how a skater going to *train* in a different country causes her words to be picked apart by the same people over and over and over again. I don't even follow the ladies but now that Zhenya faces this kind of unwarranted backlash, and is Jason's training mate, I just might

And thank heavens no fan here thinks that Jason training in Canada is some sort of disrespect to the US, that Jason posting "I love Canada" signs on social media is a disrespect to the US, that Jason talking about his jumps being reworked shows disrespect to the US. We are much more secure than that. :laugh:

And thrilled that he is training with Brian:agree:

And I do not for one second believe that anyone on an internet board knows what *most* folks anywhere think. They know what they think. And of course we all (myself included) congregate with like minded people :biggrin:

Sam-Skwantch · Sep 20, 2018

el henry said:
And thank heavens no fan here thinks that Jason training in Canada is some sort of disrespect to the US, that Jason posting "I love Canada" signs on social media is a disrespect to the US, that Jason talking about his jumps being reworked shows disrespect to the US. We are much more secure than that. And thrilled that he is training with Brian:agree:

This is the sort of comment that may overshadow any point you were trying to make. Looking down on folks who you disagree with isn’t very productive IMO regarding what is obviously a sensitive topic. No offense intended just my observation.

el henry · Sep 20, 2018

Sam-Skwantch said:
This is the sort of comment that may overshadow any point you were trying to make. Looking down on folks who you disagree with isn’t very productive IMO regarding what is obviously a sensitive topic.

But why? I don't know what else to say. Maybe if I phrase without "more"? Here goes:

Jason fans are secure in Jason's love for the US whether he trains in the US, Canada, Russia or Tanzania, and no matter how much undying love he professes for Canada, its people, its coaches and its food.
Nothing I have seen or read indicates that Zhenya has any less love for Russia than Jason has for the US. So I don't know why anyone else would be insecure about that.

I hope that helps.

Fluture · Sep 20, 2018

Reddi said:
The arena wasn't full of Zhenya's supporters - it was full of regular FS fans who cheered for everyone. But Zhenya had an ultramega loud, active and obnoxious fans in bear masks who made the most noise. They cooperated via vk.com and were orginised and again super active. I'm not saying that that audience was against Zhenya no,no. The audience was ok with Zhenya but this overwhelming support came from particular group of couple hundreds of people. Speaking about loud minorities...

It's always funny how people abroad are thinking that they know what happens in Russia. I'm not talking to anyone in particular now just you know, in general.
Yeah Zhenya still has a die hards here in Russia and in no small amount. They aren't a majority though. Weren't at the test skates, aren't in general. Regular people who don't watch FS olny know Zhenya cause boy this spring Zhenya was everywhere. I mean everywhere! She came into Olympics as a clear favourite and there were articles on a way to printing, planned magasines covers, tv shows, radio broadcasts etc... You won't believe the lenght russian media went at to conseal the fact that our Olympic Champion isn't in fact Zhenya. Zhenya played all this straight. I can't remember the amount of times she was called an Olympic champion right in her face and reacted to it by giggling and saying "Thank you!" I've witnessed it several times. It stinked.

And then the may drama started and between Zhenya's "Journalists, mind your buisness, I continue to work with my coach" and "I'm going to the Worlds" all while Sambo girls openly said that Zhenya never showed up at the rink after Olympics, her ultimate refusal to meet Eteri directly during the march and april while she was transferring to Orser... And now she is saying that she decided to change coach in the night after the free skate.

She withdrew from Worlds and continued giving back and forth interviews swaying between "I was in the best shape at the Olympics" and "My trauma doesn't allow me to skate at all but I went to the show anyway". She bragged about not being on a diet and eating whatewer she wants and muched chocolate at press conference but now she's on channel first lamenting her years of strict diet and "look i can eat a watermellon now it's the first time I'm eating something on camera". She blamed russian choreographers (Averbukh, Daniil) for not letting her to have a word on her programs. Averbukh is pretty chill about his programs he isn't a dictator, everybody knows that. He debunked her words. Also her raving about Orser "opening her a completely new world that she never imagined to exist" in regards to her skating also rubbed people in the wrong way. Also "I haven't had friends in Russia, now I have" and "All my friends aren't speaking russian".

I can go on and on and on for hours. There was a lot! It just kept stacking for quite some time. I just want to say that there's a very solid reason that many russian folks perspective has changed ang their patience with Zhenya's run thin. I'm one of them and there're more it's not "just a vocal minority" as someone here tries to present. I don't know what Zhenya will do next and when she will again for the 100th time directly contradict herself. All that I (and many more people) can say about her both as a skater and as a person in these days - WHATEVER.

The only thing I can say to this very long, very passionate and detailed post of ... the word with h I‘m not going to say: Wow. I’m speechless.

I’m not going to comment on each thing stated in this post but rather something general because these discussions lead into nowhere and create a literal war in this thread. :palmf:

I would advise you to maybe calm down a bit and not take everything so personal ??? I don’t want to attack you, but seriously, I’m sorry... but you know, that this is just... figure skating, right? There are things worth to get so worked up about. But this - in the end - is “just sport“. It connects people and it’s beautiful but it also has it’s downside. One is obviously those dedicated fans that don’t get what they want from a person and then are disappointed because they’re not the perfect, smiley and always nice person they made them be in their mind but rather human beings. You know we all make mistakes? Zhenya does, too. She‘s 18. Do you really think one can be perfect in the spotlight and always say the right thing, especially at that age? I don‘t think so but if you do... well, you have every right to do so but I fear you will get disappointed more often than not with a mindset like this. Athletes aren‘t angels. Nobody is.

The amount of drama people are able to make truly never ceases to astound me. I‘m sorry but I‘m just really shocked right now.

andromache · Sep 20, 2018

Reddi said:
whole post

I love Evgenia. I don't follow her every interview closely enough to know if she's actually contradicting herself all the time, etc., but if that is what she was doing, I feel bad for her. Being a child star isn't easy (even if you like the attention), and that's essentially what she was. And she was undoubtedly under a LOT of pressure to say things to appease fans, to appease her coach, and to sound happy and carefree when she was actually disappointed in herself for not winning OGM.

I also think the coach/student relationship is WAY more complicated than we realize. Evgenia trained with Eteri since she was very young. Eteri was motherly toward her and I'm sure Eteri encouraged that very close relationship - so when Eteri is then training Evgenia's biggest competition to win what Evgenia's biggest dream was, it's very confusing! Of course, Eteri is a coach doing her job for both of her students, but when you're a kid and you have an emotional relationship with your coach, it's easy to be upset even if you objectively understand that the coach is just doing her job. And then Eteri badmouthed Evgenia after she left, too, so it's just bad feelings all around.

I hope Eteri has learned to be more professional with her young students - since she has so many more than she did when Evgenia was young, she probably is less motherly than she was to Evgenia. If coaches/students become too emotionally invested in each other (especially when the coach is training their student's competition, too) it's all just too negative.

That's just my speculation on what happened with the Evgenia/Eteri break-up.

Ophelia · Sep 20, 2018

el henry said:
But why? I don't know what else to say. Maybe if I phrase without "more"? Here goes:

Jason fans are secure in Jason's love for the US whether he trains in the US, Canada, Russia or Tanzania, and no matter how much undying love he professes for Canada, its people, its coaches and its food.
Nothing I have seen or read indicates that Zhenya has any less love for Russia than Jason has for the US. So I don't know why anyone else would be insecure about that.

I hope that helps.

Yep. There was zero hoopala or teeth knashing about Brown moving to Orser. OR about Jin moving to Orser. Quite a striking difference in reactions between Brown, Jin, and Med.

The posters hand wringing and writing massive essays here just give evidence to the insecurity.

samkrut@mail.ru · Sep 20, 2018

Fluture said:
But there are a lot of Russian fans who don‘t mind any of this, who still support her. The arena at test skates was full of people cheering her name and making banners for her. Why don‘t they mind? How are they different? They’re probably all Russian.

After Yulia Zhenya was my inspiration in figure skating. I laughed at all attempts to diminish her skating, to say that skater A or skater B were underscored versus her. Her skating style was unique. I just hope that she will build on what she already had.

DanseMacabre · Sep 20, 2018

Why do I get the feeling that the Great Eteri/Evgenia Schism of 2018 is going to be the last thing some of y'all talk about on your deathbeds?

Sam-Skwantch · Sep 20, 2018

el henry said:
But why? I don't know what else to say. Maybe if I phrase without "more"? Here goes:

Jason fans are secure in Jason's love for the US whether he trains in the US, Canada, Russia or Tanzania, and no matter how much undying love he professes for Canada, its people, its coaches and its food.
Nothing I have seen or read indicates that Zhenya has any less love for Russia than Jason has for the US. So I don't know why anyone else would be insecure about that.

I hope that helps.

I could be wrong but I just thought that maybe Russian Speaking fans may have interpreted your comment as “this is how we act and we’re better than you because of it”. It’s how things derail even if the intention was otherwise. I think even though my opinion of Zhenya hasn’t changed that it’s ok for others to feel differently. I have several very dear family members that get this way about American cars. My VW caused several looks of disapproval but I’ve learned to just accept it for what it is. I may totally not get it but then again as being from and around the Detroit area...things are often on a different level. I’m always safe with my Tigers hat or Red Wings jersey on though :agree:

Fluture · Sep 20, 2018

andromache said:
I love Evgenia. I don't follow her every interview closely enough to know if she's actually contradicting herself all the time, etc., but if that is what she was doing, I feel bad for her. Being a child star isn't easy (even if you like the attention), and that's essentially what she was. And she was undoubtedly under a LOT of pressure to say things to appease fans, to appease her coach, and to sound happy and carefree when she was actually disappointed in herself for not winning OGM.

I also think the coach/student relationship is WAY more complicated than we realize. Evgenia trained with Eteri since she was very young. Eteri was motherly toward her and I'm sure Eteri encouraged that very close relationship - so when Eteri is then training Evgenia's biggest competition to win what Evgenia's biggest dream was, it's very confusing! Of course, Eteri is a coach doing her job for both of her students, but when you're a kid and you have an emotional relationship with your coach, it's easy to be upset even if you objectively understand that the coach is just doing her job. And then Eteri badmouthed Evgenia after she left, too, so it's just bad feelings all around.

I hope Eteri has learned to be more professional with her young students - since she has so many more than she did when Evgenia was young, she probably is less motherly than she was to Evgenia. If coaches/students become too emotionally invested in each other (especially when the coach is training their student's competition, too) it's all just too negative.

That's just my speculation on what happened with the Evgenia/Eteri break-up.

I fully agree with this post. I think she‘s in a very difficult situation. How many of us won a World Championship at age 16? I think everyone who so excessively criticizes her should remember how they were at her age and maybe reconsider whether they would do a better job than her or not. So much exposure, so many expectations. This isn‘t easy to handle and because she is a star athlete we all might forget that she‘s still very young, she doesn‘t have the experience an older person has. Of course she‘s going to say things that an adult wouldn‘t say. But before you judge her... you know, maybe walk a mile in her shows.

This isn‘t exclusively about Evgenia, though. Alina, Yulia... all those young girls who are so successful at such a young age and then get exposed to this intense media interest and yes, hate and criticisms. Do people think about that before they write such posts? Do they consider that they‘re badmouthing 15, 16, 18 year old girls on the internet? I don’t know, I just don‘t get this. I can only say - I, as an average person, would crumble under the weight Zhenya‘s got on her shoulders. So, I‘m careful to judge and you know, always trying to understand the person, the human being behind the star athlete. I wish more people would do the same. If we saw those girls/women as what they are and didn‘t expect them to be perfect, things would probably be a lot more peaceful on here...

samkrut@mail.ru · Sep 20, 2018

lilahozi said:
Yep. There was zero hoopala or teeth knashing about Brown moving to Orser. OR about Jin moving to Orser. Quite a striking difference in reactions between Brown, Jin, and Med.

The posters hand wringing and writing massive essays here just give evidence to the insecurity.

Who is Jin, who is Brown? Come on. This one is like Yuna's leaving Orser.

el henry · Sep 20, 2018

Reddi said:
Cool. You've twisted every one of my arguments.
People gave Zhenya many excuses over the years before they got sick of all it. "Unwarranted backlash" is more like "overdue backlash"
"I love Canada" sign in now way equals continuing undermining of russian figure skating school after what, according to Zhenya you'll have to start over from the very beginning and face tha fact that you knew very little. Oh I imagine a spectacular storm of #2 on this forum if Jason said something like this.
The problem with Zhenya is HOW she left. So stop trying to gaslight people if you're so secure.

I simply don't see what Zhenya did or said that was so horribly awful in leaving. So we'll need to agree to disagree on that. And I have not see this kind of criticism until she left for Orser. Maybe it was there, but it wasn't on this board.

Jason fans loved Kori when Jason was with Kori, a coach by the way he was with for close to *20* years and who has said *nothing* bad about Jason's departure. Now we love Brian. Because we love Jason, and if he's happy, we're happy.

I would imagine Zhenya's fans probably feel the same way.:agree:

Off to watch practices.....

moriel · Sep 20, 2018

DanseMacabre said:
Why do I get the feeling that the Great Eteri/Evgenia Schism of 2018 is going to be the last thing some of y'all talk about on your deathbeds?

Nah, next season some other stuff will happen.
I thought the same in 2014, Adelina vs Yuna would last forever. Nah, all those things get forgotten in a couple of seasons and are barely mentioned, so enjoy while you can.

moriel · Sep 20, 2018

el henry said:
I simply don't see what Zhenya did or said that was so horribly awful in leaving. So we'll need to agree to disagree on that. And I have not see this kind of criticism until she left for Orser. Maybe it was there, but it wasn't on this board.

Jason fans loved Kori when Jason was with Kori, a coach by the way he was with for close to *20* years and who has said *nothing* bad about Jason's departure. Now we love Brian. Because we love Jason, and if he's happy, we're happy.

I would imagine Zhenya's fans probably feel the same way.:agree:

Off to watch practices.....

There is nothing horribly awful in leaving.
Just not all people like how the leaving was handled. Say you will not change coaches and then do it in a month or two is awful. Not thanking your teacher/coach for example is awful. Refusing to give Rusfed an interview because one has an exclusive contract with TV is awful.

2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

QueenOfTheRoad

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

andromache

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

gsk8

Reddi

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

Fluture

andromache

Ophelia

[email protected]

Medalist

DanseMacabre

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

Fluture

[email protected]

Medalist

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

moriel

moriel

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