2018-19 Japanese Ladies' figure skating

TryMeLater · Sep 22, 2018

cohen-esque said:
Lol, Midori got some 6.0s for presentation back in the day. Plus the judges love the big jumps these days more than they did back then.

Not nearly enough 6.0's (and for Technical merit as well).
They invented the whole a 3Lz-3T is just like a 3A back then (IIRC).
Anyways, judges like competition...

drivingmissdaisy · Sep 22, 2018

TryMeLater said:
Not nearly enough 6.0's (and for Technical merit as well).
They invented the whole a 3Lz-3T is just like a 3A back then (IIRC).
Anyways, judges like competition...

Japan Fed was not nearly as influential as it is now. The US pushed Yamaguchi hard and somehow convinced other feds/judges that her tiny jumps were about as good as Midori's, and if both made similar mistakes Kristi should win on artistry. Midori's superior speed, edge work, spins, and transitions were discounted.

leoleo · Sep 22, 2018

rikaquegira said:
OMG I’m so jealous of you! [emoji23]
I am currently planning a trip to Beijing 2022. I’m calculating if it is actually possible for me, financially speaking... [emoji23]
I hope she’s still performing on this level when the next Olympics comes. It’s difficult to predict into the far future like that, anything could happen, but she could be a top contender! [emoji120]

She’s improving so much! I cannot believe! Did you notice the new entry and exit to the 3F??? And the exit of the 3A?? And the 3S??? She’s adding some complicated transitions! And you can see she’s struggling with it a little bit, trying to keep the jumps perfect. There’s still basically no transitions between the first and second jumping pass. I’m not expecting her to have a super busy program right away but after seeing how much she improved and how much they worked on her FS I’m confident next season the level of difficulty of her programs will be even higher.
Honestly I don’t see how her PCS will not rise to the skies if she skates clean and win some GPs along the way. By the time of Worlds she could really be a favorite for Gold!

the only reason why i can afford to go to IDF is because tickets aren't expensive & it's like less than 2hrs away from where i live by train! i'm too broke to travel to like Helsinki for example to see Hanyu & Alina even though i really wish i could:sad21:.

Her team did a good job with transitions in and out of jumps, i find that some japanese ladies tend to lack them so it's great. If she can land her jumps, GOEs will be huge. Her solo 3A got a pretty good goe today. I was seriously shook by that exit on the solo 3A :eeking: i mean the 3A by itself is already hard for most skaters but the way she just makes it all look so easy:luv17:. The ice coverage on her 3A has gotten even more impressive as well. I'd like to believe her team added all the transitions because she was consistent in practice, they wouldn't just take the risk to do that otherwise.

By the way, take a look at the protocols by judges! the russian & kazahk judges really tried it didn't they?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dnuxx5sU4AAIkAP.jpg

TryMeLater · Sep 22, 2018

drivingmissdaisy said:
Japan Fed was not nearly as influential as it is now. The US pushed Yamaguchi hard and somehow convinced other feds/judges that her tiny jumps were about as good as Midori's, and if both made similar mistakes Kristi should win on artistry. Midori's superior speed, edge work, spins, and transitions were discounted.

Do you find the Japan Fed to be influential when it comes to scoring? I don't think they do a good job of pushing their skaters.

mermaidfestavol3 · Sep 22, 2018

Congrats to Rika! Love the triple axels and it's only September. Hopefully she can keep up this momentum.

I have heard that Wakaba is injured, but what about Yura Matsuda? She only has 3T and 3S, and no 3T+3T, 2A+3T, or 3S+3T at that. So I am a bit worried for her considering she has 2 Grand Prix assignments. She is known for her +3Lo combinations so I hope she can get those back in time for the GP.

yume · Sep 22, 2018

mermaidfestavol3 said:
I have heard that Wakaba is injured, but what about Yura Matsuda? She only has 3T and 3S, and no 3T+3T, 2A+3T, or 3S+3T at that. So I am a bit worried for her considering she has 2 Grand Prix assignments. She is known for her +3Lo combinations so I hope she can get those back in time for the GP.

Injury too. She's coming back from an injury. She has a month before skate Canada to recover her combos.

yume · Sep 22, 2018

TryMeLater said:
Do you find the Japan Fed to be influential when it comes to scoring? I don't think they do a good job of pushing their skaters.

For ladies, not really. Honestly Mao got those 3 world titles by herself.
The only one who seems to get some favors is Satoko on her TES. But i don't know if it's her luck or fed push.

rikaquegira · Sep 22, 2018

leoleo said:
By the way, take a look at the protocols by judges! the russian & kazahk judges really tried it didn't they?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dnuxx5sU4AAIkAP.jpg

Yes, they did! [emoji23]
Of course Japanese judge was biased too but since I'm biased as well I don't mind it!

And he wasn't even that biased, he just gave a +4 for the 3A3T(but then again, anyone could argue that jump combo has "very good height and distance") and the +5 for the LSp was a no-no! That layback was not her usual quality! She has such centered spins but today both the layback and the CCoSp was a little bit off. Not horrible, but certainly not deserving of a +5 imo.

On the other hand, Judges 1 and 2 gave her nothing but 0s and 1s and 2s, only one 3 for the 3A. :palmf:

I mean...... Seriously??? Her StSq is a +2?? Her ChSq is a +1???? Her 3Lz2T2Lo is a 0??
And then you look at the GOEs of Russian ladies and Lilbet and it's just so freaking obvious and shameless. :noshake:
And then you look at their PCS........
:slink:

Globetrotter · Sep 22, 2018

drivingmissdaisy said:
Japan Fed was not nearly as influential as it is now. The US pushed Yamaguchi hard and somehow convinced other feds/judges that her tiny jumps were about as good as Midori's, and if both made similar mistakes Kristi should win on artistry. Midori's superior speed, edge work, spins, and transitions were discounted.

It was a different era. Midori was the quintessential CoP skater who was too far ahead of her time. Back then, judges like princessy and feminine type skaters. MKwan, Cohen and Yamaguchi were nicely in that mould. Tonya and Midori were decidedly non princessy and their energetic skating and powers were not favoured. I still maintained that under CoP scoring, Midori would have won the 92 Olympic gold with a second half 3A and better SS and TR than Yamaguchi and certainly better GOEs on jumps and spins.

drivingmissdaisy · Sep 23, 2018

Globetrotter said:
It was a different era. Midori was the quintessential CoP skater who was too far ahead of her time. Back then, judges like princessy and feminine type skaters. MKwan, Cohen and Yamaguchi were nicely in that mould. Tonya and Midori were decidedly non princessy and their energetic skating and powers were not favoured. I still maintained that under CoP scoring, Midori would have won the 92 Olympic gold with a second half 3A and better SS and TR than Yamaguchi and certainly better GOEs on jumps and spins.

It was a different era, but the powerful federations often shape the trends of that era. The western skaters were preferred because the US was the largest market for skating at the time. With popularity waning in the US now, other federations have become more influential. Since Sochi, the favored programs for ladies have been influenced by the transition-heavy Russian style. With the most recent changes, the judges are scoring the actual quality of the element rather than awarding points for additional features, which is great to see. If the panels actually adhere to the judging criteria (and, so far, it looks like they have), it's probably the fairest scoring system the sport has ever had.

yume · Sep 23, 2018

Globetrotter said:
I still maintained that under CoP scoring, Midori would have won the 92 Olympic gold with a second half 3A and better SS and TR than Yamaguchi and certainly better GOEs on jumps and spins.

Agree.

leoleo · Sep 23, 2018

I kind of want Rika to change her SP dress, it's kind of... ugly! i'm not a big fan of her SP itself but she can't change it, it's too late so i'll just watch how it improves throughout the season.

I've just rewatched Wakaba's FS (even tho it hurts me to see her perform like this) and i see great potential in it and i'm feeling that it's going to be a fantastic program when it's complete.

ArenaWings · Sep 23, 2018

leoleo said:
I kind of want Rika to change her SP dress, it's kind of... ugly! i'm not a big fan of her SP itself but she can't change it, it's too late so i'll just watch how it improves throughout the season.

I've just rewatched Wakaba's FS (even tho it hurts me to see her perform like this) and i see great potential in it and i'm feeling that it's going to be a fantastic program when it's complete.

I wouldn't say it's ugly. It does seem too junior to me, especially with the pony tail :laugh:

, but it's still a pretty dress.
Totally agree with the comment on Wakaba though

Globetrotter · Sep 23, 2018

drivingmissdaisy said:
It was a different era, but the powerful federations often shape the trends of that era. The western skaters were preferred because the US was the largest market for skating at the time. With popularity waning in the US now, other federations have become more influential. Since Sochi, the favored programs for ladies have been influenced by the transition-heavy Russian style. With the most recent changes, the judges are scoring the actual quality of the element rather than awarding points for additional features, which is great to see. If the panels actually adhere to the judging criteria (and, so far, it looks like they have), it's probably the fairest scoring system the sport has ever had.

Let’s hope that this is maintained. I suspect some judges are still confused. For example, Medvedeva still gets +4 in jump combo GOEs at Autumn Classic but I just can’t see she had hit all the 3 core elements, not particularly on the effortless throughout when the combos look very muscled. But it’s improving. Ironically, she’s developed better SS under BOrser but her components had came down to earth from the previous inflation. Hopefully, the new judging system gets more entrenched and judges apply it more diligently as the season progresses. I am ok for US packaging style, Russian transitions or Japanese gliding. As long as judging stays sane and is not overtly rewarding only one fad that is in fashion.

rikaquegira · Sep 23, 2018

leoleo said:
I kind of want Rika to change her SP dress, it's kind of... ugly! i'm not a big fan of her SP itself but she can't change it, it's too late so i'll just watch how it improves throughout the season.

I've just rewatched Wakaba's FS (even tho it hurts me to see her perform like this) and i see great potential in it and i'm feeling that it's going to be a fantastic program when it's complete.

The dress doesn't seem to fit her perfectly, it looks... baggy? :laugh:

I don't know, there's something strange about it. I like the colors though, it fits the music.
The tights though.......... :disapp: What the hell happened???

Why, Rika-chan, why????
I think Rika is rebelling... I can't see Mie Hamada going "yes, that looks very nice, I like the new style". :laugh:

Or maybe they thought "well, that's how the Olympic champ wears her tights so..."
:rofl:

Seriously, THAT, to me, is ugly!!! :noshake:

frida80 · Sep 23, 2018

drivingmissdaisy said:
It was a different era, but the powerful federations often shape the trends of that era. The western skaters were preferred because the US was the largest market for skating at the time. With popularity waning in the US now, other federations have become more influential. Since Sochi, the favored programs for ladies have been influenced by the transition-heavy Russian style. With the most recent changes, the judges are scoring the actual quality of the element rather than awarding points for additional features, which is great to see. If the panels actually adhere to the judging criteria (and, so far, it looks like they have), it's probably the fairest scoring system the sport has ever had.

I'm glad someone else noticed this. I thought I was the only one that noticed that the judging had changed to reflect the quality of then program instead of just transitions.

rikaquegira · Sep 23, 2018

frida80 said:
I'm glad someone else noticed this. I thought I was the only one that noticed that the judging had changed to reflect the quality of then program instead of just transitions.

At least that's what we hope! :laugh:

Let's see how it will play out in the GP.

Giver · Sep 24, 2018

I didn't follow Japanese ladies last season, so I don't know: is it normal that some Japanese skaters having really bad form currently (Higuchi, Sakamoto, Miyahara to a lesser extent)?

leoleo · Sep 24, 2018

Mai Mihara - SP - Gensan Summer Cup 2018
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzfbzIRJQHA
still don't like this program but she seems ready for this season already. Can't wait to see her this week

cohkaix · Sep 24, 2018

Giver said:
I didn't follow Japanese ladies last season, so I don't know: is it normal that some Japanese skaters having really bad form currently (Higuchi, Sakamoto, Miyahara to a lesser extent)?

I think you have to consider the difference between Olympic season and post-Olympic season.

2018-19 Japanese Ladies' figure skating

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