2018-19 U.S. Ladies' figure skating

NAOTMAA · Nov 17, 2018

I'm guessing Gracie thought she was more prepared then she actually was and it was a little bit of a shock for her. That's pretty normal really.

Otherwise I don't see why she pulled out of the free unless she was hurt or that was the plan all along and she was only in Russia so she could get to Nationals without doing regionals. It's a little yucky feeling but it's not against any rule so whatever.

I personally think she should have done the free just for the full on experience of being in competition again and the practice. Private practices at home are not the same and it would have been very valuable experience to have because the SP and the free are two different animals.

Bluediamonds09 · Nov 17, 2018

No Katie mcbeath or Emmy Ma at nationals this time. And pretty soon we’ll find out the results of midwesterns. I’m keeping a close eye on it; Hannah Miller is first at the moment , but not with a high score.

andromache · Nov 17, 2018

I’m thinking that after the SP, Gracie realized that going out there for the LP would be too damaging for her mental health. It was a tough decision. I really wanted to see her push forward and do the LP but she needs to do what is best for her, and I’m glad she did.

Now that we know where her skating is at right now, I hope we will see her at Nationals and be able to see meaningful progress.

If I was in Gracie’s shoes, I don’t think I would make a comeback until I was back at 100%. I would sit this season out and come back next season when I have over a year of training done and slay at a few smaller competitions to show everyone that I am 100% back and ready to kill it. Coming back now when she’s undertrained is putting herself in a pretty vulnerable position, and she’s brave for doing it. It’s inspiring but heart wrenching.

Amei · Nov 17, 2018

andromache said:
Gracie’s presence at Rostelecom has nothing to do with the choices of USFS. They did not “give” her the opportunity over someone else. She was entitled to a GP slot by the ISU comeback rules. That’s it.

The ISU 'comeback' rule needs to be adjusted where it requires some level of showing before the GP series that you can at least put out the minimum required.

Tolstoj · Nov 17, 2018

SXTN said:
I have so much respect for Carolina Kostner now who came back at 30 after a two years break with all of her triples and in good physical shape.

But she went to a technician like Mishin to restore all her triples, and they took a step-by-step approach with only 3-2 combinations or only 3t-3t as a 3-3 for a while, to then try with the flip-toe, while she kept working with Lori Nichol even when she couldn't compete.

That is something Gracie absolutely needs to do, she needs to find a technician in US like Tom Z or go back to Alex maybe and work more on the elements, adjusting everything to the new body.

It's never too late as right now US field is not very deep, USFS would be glad to bring her back if she can return the skater she was.

doublequad · Nov 17, 2018

I don't think it's fair to compare Gracie to Carolina... Her first competition ('16 Golden Spin Zagreb) back she scored 69.95 SP and 126.28 FS. Watching the program, she did a 3T-3T, 3Lo (hand down), 2A. Can Gracie even do a 3-3 right now?

doublequad · Nov 17, 2018

drivingmissdaisy said:
If so, this is a change from what the rule was before. IIRC, when Kimmie Meissner withdrew from her GP events in 2009, it made her ineligible to bye into the 2010 Nationals.

I'm sort of mixed on Gracie withdrawing. I was fully behind her yesterday after her poor skate in the SP, and I understand wanting to build her confidence. However, I really feel like if you're going to commit to participating in an event, you should finish it. She could have gone out there, done all doubles, came in last and I don't think it would have affected her that much because she wasn't putting her best out there.

I agree. But then you'd have the 15 online strangers questioning why she had to go to Rostelecom to do a FS full of doubles.

drivingmissdaisy · Nov 17, 2018

doublequad said:
I agree. But then you'd have the 15 online strangers questioning why she had to go to Rostelecom to do a FS full of doubles.

Yeah, it's sort of damned if you do, damned if you don't. Still, I agree with NAOTMAA that you feel a bit disappointed that she's taking advantage of a loophole to get to Nationals without giving a sincere effort to finish this event. It seems like she has too much on her plate right now to focus on training that gets her to a respectable technical level for international competition. Aside from the jumps, Gracie's execution on the spins was also mediocre.

hippomoomin · Nov 17, 2018

Gracie for sure needs an professional advisor, who can give her a realistic assessment of different outcomes if she does this or that, so that she will not be hurt if things don't turn out as she expected. I am a little afraid people around her are being too protective and simply go with whatever she decides to do. Loving her does not mean allowing her to damage her confidence further with whatever she decides to do.

I also agree what she said in the ESPN interview is concerning. http://www.espn.com/olympics/figure...turns-2-year-hiatus-battle-anxiety-depression

"We just had to start with something, even if it was trash"
"On-brand for my personality is to go to one of the hardest Grands Prix in Moscow to do it, not at some tiny competition. The goal was just to show up and try to be brave."
I wish it was from a fake news website, not from AP. It does not take an expert to see at least, she is conflicted: from the interview, it seems she just want to show up and be brave and not care about results (as many people thought). But based on the twits and withdrawal, she does care about the results deeply. She has to make her goal clear, to skate for the love of skate, or skate for results and to prove she is a top skater, or just stay mentally and physically healthy. In the past two seasons, ladies skating has advanced so much. She needs to realize if she wants to get on a podium at an international event, a lot of work has to be done.
Hope someone she trusts can give her some honest advices, not things she wants to hear. Otherwise, that's no point seeking "help."

drivingmissdaisy · Nov 17, 2018

andromache said:
If I was in Gracie’s shoes, I don’t think I would make a comeback until I was back at 100%. I would sit this season out and come back next season when I have over a year of training done and slay at a few smaller competitions to show everyone that I am 100% back and ready to kill it. Coming back now when she’s undertrained is putting herself in a pretty vulnerable position, and she’s brave for doing it. It’s inspiring but heart wrenching.

It was just a confusing event overall. The one jump she goes for is arguably her worst, and it doesn't sound like the flip was solid in practice either. If she could remaster the 2A and two different triples, she can still earn a respectable score in both the SP and LP and build from there. It's obviously easy for us to question her strategy from behind our computer screens, but I honestly think that her approach of planning a bunch of elements that are shaky in practice isn't going to get her to where she wants to be.

lutzlover · Nov 17, 2018

Bluediamonds09 said:
No Katie mcbeath or Emmy Ma at nationals this time. And pretty soon we’ll find out the results of midwesterns. I’m keeping a close eye on it; Hannah Miller is first at the moment , but not with a high score.

No Paige or Vivian either. Although the announcer initially said Paige was 4th, then had to correct herself to say 6th. That was pretty sad.

drivingmissdaisy · Nov 17, 2018

hippomoomin said:
"On-brand for my personality is to go to one of the hardest Grands Prix in Moscow to do it, not at some tiny competition. The goal was just to show up and try to be brave."

That is such a strange way to preface her statement. It sounds like she is talking about a marketable product, not someone who is trying to take the smartest approach for a successful comeback.

Mrs. P · Nov 17, 2018

She had an opportunity to take advantage of an opportunity. I don't blame her for taking it.

It was a big ask to go from 0 to 60 in six months. Remember she wasn't even skating that much just a few months ago. I hope Gracie isn't too hard on herself and she continues to work toward the long game.

The on-brand sounds kinda strange, but I think what she's trying to say is that she has been used to jumping right in to the shark waters. After all she went from not making nationals in 2011 to winning a JGP in a matter of months.

drivingmissdaisy · Nov 17, 2018

Mrs. P said:
She had an opportunity to take advantage of an opportunity. I don't blame her for taking it.

I don't mind that she came unprepared. I don't mind that she did the event solely to get a bye to Nationals. This opportunity was a result of her previous excellence, so she fully earned it.

I also appreciate that she was candid about the reason for not skating her LP.

However, I think that if you come to an event, have your expenses paid, and take a spot that could have gone to another skater, you really have to give it your best effort to compete. I get that you have to do what's best for your mental health, but you've come to event where fans buy tickets to see you and other skaters give a performance. Go out there and do just doubles; you've already traveled halfway around the world to be here. It's pretty clear that her planned elements for the programs did not reflect what she does in practice, so of course she's going to let herself down if her expectation is that she is going to go out and successfully do these elements in competition.

qwerty · Nov 17, 2018

It is going to be very revealing of Gracie's intrinsic motivation and perseverance if she continues to compete next year and is on the Regionals track, and presumably removed from ISP. She has mentioned her Olympic comedown in the past, and I think there will be a similar lack of big competitions on her immediate horizon come February. She hasn't been in this position for many years.

Gracie's performance and skating ability at this Grand Prix was unprecedented as far as I remember. It would be similarly unique for her to make a return to her former ability.

I could speculate endlessly about the decisions that led to her arriving in Russia, but what's done is done. Will just have to see how she builds from here.

moonvine · Nov 17, 2018

WesleyFox said:
One reason that I'm hopeful...

Her reactions appear to be completely honest.
No big smiles and waves. No facade.

Her response, "Jesus Christ" to the sp score had me rolling.. That seemed so real. I felt it.
I'm not worried about the "something, even if it was trash" quote... It's realism. Guess it would help if we HEARD her say it. Hard to pick up on inflection in print.

The quote about going to this GP being something within personality.. maybe partially true. Probably a cover for "It was now or never for ISU Comebacks"

Just my impression; I don't know her personally, but it seems if she was going to come back she was going to do it on her own terms and be her authentic self instead of playing "Ice Princess" for USFS. I'm looking forward to seeing who she really is.

MarinHondas · Nov 17, 2018

lutzlover said:
No Paige or Vivian either. Although the announcer initially said Paige was 4th, then had to correct herself to say 6th. That was pretty sad.

Wow that absolutely must have hurt for Paige. Split second of thinking you made it.

On a brighter note, Hannah Miller did make it! Yay! Pooja, still with an FS below her level but enough to pull herself up to third and a spot at Nats!

Congratulations to every skater that made it and every skater competing at sectionals!

alpaca · Nov 17, 2018

Tolstoj said:
But she went to a technician like Mishin to restore all her triples, and they took a step-by-step approach with only 3-2 combinations or only 3t-3t as a 3-3 for a while, to then try with the flip-toe, while she kept working with Lori Nichol even when she couldn't compete.

That is something Gracie absolutely needs to do, she needs to find a technician in US like Tom Z or go back to Alex maybe and work more on the elements, adjusting everything to the new body.

It's never too late as right now US field is not very deep, USFS would be glad to bring her back if she can return the skater she was.

Absolutely agree with this. As much as I understand that it's hard to self admit that you are no longer where you used to be, I think approaching the problem from down up, step by step is actually the surest way to getting back up to the competitive level she used to be at. As much as Gracie may not like it, she needs to work with a technician and do smaller competitions, whether it be Senior B and CS competitions. Even at her peak point, she wasn't known for having competition nerves of steel like some of the other ladies do, so it's a bit worrisome that she would want to put an unprepared version of herself into a huge competition like Rostelecom. It's perfectly normal that what happens in private practice is an experience completely different from competition, but I think at her level now, smaller competitions is a necessity to rebuild her confidence. The fact that she puts out there that she won't do smaller competitions is strange to me and honestly, I think that trying to keep doing only big competitions like GP or even Nationals in her current condition is going to only do further harm, which I absolutely wish for her to avoid.

Mrs. P · Nov 17, 2018

MarinHondas said:
Wow that absolutely must have hurt for Paige. Split second of thinking you made it.

On a brighter note, Hannah Miller did make it! Yay! Pooja, still with an FS below her level but enough to pull herself up to third and a spot at Nats!

Congratulations to every skater that made it and every skater competing at sectionals!

Ugh that was heartbreaking. I am happy that Pooja managed to get in, same with Hannah.

hippomoomin · Nov 17, 2018

That's the reason why I think the "help" she got so far is far from enough to address the problems. Not to mention the explanation on why she did not do regional and sectionals, or even senior B.

drivingmissdaisy said:
That is such a strange way to preface her statement. It sounds like she is talking about a marketable product, not someone who is trying to take the smartest approach for a successful comeback.

2018-19 U.S. Ladies' figure skating

NAOTMAA

Bluediamonds09

andromache

Amei

Tolstoj

doublequad

doublequad

drivingmissdaisy

hippomoomin

drivingmissdaisy

lutzlover

drivingmissdaisy

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

drivingmissdaisy

qwerty

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie

MarinHondas

alpaca

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

hippomoomin

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