2018-19 U.S. Ladies' figure skating

Skater Boy · Nov 19, 2018

With the American dollar worth so much more thanthe Canadian loonie Ravi Walia is not a bad choice. The privacy issues well Patrick and Kaetlyn did a lot of practice in private riks but the good ting about the mall is that there is osme accountabiliity withthe public openness. Gracie could maybe get a part time job at themall to pay for some of her expenses too. And when Kaetlyn comes back she wouuld have a formidable training mate.

Ic3Rabbit · Nov 19, 2018

Angela Wang is already training with Ravi.

And might I add that Kaetlyn used to get jump training from Frank Carroll, who is now retired. Ravi used to send her to him a couple of times a year or more.

Can we please just leave Gracie alone now?

lurkz2 · Nov 19, 2018

eaglehelang said:
Female I cant think of any,male skaters yes. In terms of physical injuries. Plushenko has gone thru dunno how many surgeries, on his knees and back.
A more recent example, Sota Yamamoto, Japanese male skater. He was touted the big up & comer along with Shoma Uno.
Then in 2016, he broke his RIGHT ankle during practice. Went thru 3 surgeries, long rehab. Then, couple of months later, he re- injured his ankle again doing a double jump.

Came back 2017, he was doing 2A and triples at sectionals. Only this season, 2018, he got his 3A back. He participated in NHK GP, no quads, finished a respectable 6th.
He has youth on his side, he's only 18 now.

Though I dont know where he had the mental strength to endure thru the surgeries, pain,long rehab.

What about Akiko Suzuki?

DSQ · Nov 19, 2018

Alysa Liu is completing at Junior nationals this year or Advanced Novice? I’m excited to see her on the international stage.

Moxiejan · Nov 19, 2018

DSQ said:
Alysa Liu is completing at Junior nationals this year or Advanced Novice? I’m excited to see her on the international stage.

She is competing at nationals as a senior. Internationally, she is too young for junior, so will have to compete in adavanced novice for another year.

elephanter · Nov 19, 2018

lavoix said:
I don't understand why you Americans are so nice to Gracie - can someone explain the rationale for competing? In such a big competition?

She was a super big mess - out of shape, couldn't jump, seriously I've never skated in my life and could probably do a better performance than that. Why on earth would her coaches allow for her to go on the ice in such a condition? If anything, she's probably gone backward again and hasn't done herself a favour.

You should go and try skating- if you're somewhat athletic, you could probably do the first few seconds of Gracies program, the opening pose and a few glides (with half the speed).

It's not like running, unless you're running on blades, on a hard, slippery surface.

I have skated as an adult, hence I know skating is way harder than it looks.

surimi · Nov 19, 2018

I came here originally just to support Gracie, not expecting my #1 fave to be brought up, but since you did...

eaglehelang said:
Female I cant think of any,male skaters yes. In terms of physical injuries. Plushenko has gone thru dunno how many surgeries, on his knees and back.
A more recent example, Sota Yamamoto, Japanese male skater. He was touted the big up & comer along with Shoma Uno.
Then in 2016, he broke his RIGHT ankle during practice. Went thru 3 surgeries, long rehab. Then, couple of months later, he re- injured his ankle again doing a double jump.

Came back 2017, he was doing 2A and triples at sectionals. Only this season, 2018, he got his 3A back. He participated in NHK GP, no quads, finished a respectable 6th.
He has youth on his side, he's only 18 now.

Though I dont know where he had the mental strength to endure thru the surgeries, pain,long rehab.

I honestly cannot think of a skater Gracie could fully relate to, and I suspect it's because there's still a stigma on mental health issues, and I guess we never learn who all battled them in their career. The only parallel with Sota is coming back from 0, but then, there was 'just' an injury involved.(*) To my knowledge, there was no eating disorder, and no criticism after a big disappointment that Boston Worlds meant to Gracie.

She's really a pioneer in combining a return from no jumps, and return from severe psychological issues. My respect for that! She might set an example to skaters who develop the same issues. I could see she wasn't competition ready at Rostelecom, but it's a start of a work in progress, a test of her own abilities and mindset. How long has it been again that she returned to training? I admire that she just didn't give up and retire, and I hope she doesn't. I hope she still enjoys training and competing, hard as it is. It was nice to see her again. It might take a long time, but I hope she gets back on the competitive level. She doesn't have anything to prove anymore in terms of results, and if she only skates for her own joy, good enough for me. Fingers crossed! My only recommendation: a different costume for her, as this one isn't flattering. It looks like she's trying to hide her body in all the black and vertical stripes, and that would mean she still isn't feeling comfortable with it. I hope she puts that kind of pressure behind her.

(*) - (some factual corrections, sorry for getting off-topic: There was no additional injury after 3 surgeries, what you speak of is probably how the second of his 3 consecutive fractures happened. Also, he only had two triples, toe and sal, at sectionals; he only got back the full set sans 3A this March)

DSQ · Nov 19, 2018

Moxiejan said:
She is competing at nationals as a senior. Internationally, she is too young for junior, so will have to compete in adavanced novice for another year.

That’s crazy. I mean I really rate her, she clearly has talent and ambition, but what’s the point of competing as a senior at nationals? If she wins and yet can’t be sent to worlds it gonna make the girl who comes second look bad in comparison.

The get letting a junior compete if next year they’ll be eligible for seniors but if she’s not even senior level...

Moxiejan · Nov 19, 2018

DSQ said:
That’s crazy. I mean I really rate her, she clearly has talent and ambition, but what’s the point of competing as a senior at nationals? If she wins and yet can’t be sent to worlds it gonna make the girl who comes second look bad in comparison. The get letting a junior compete if next year they’ll be eligible for seniors but if she’s not even senior level...

The point is that she clearly has the skating skills to compete with U.S. seniors & will gain international reputation if she does well. This will help her when she finally is old enough for junior & senior worlds. If the other U.S. seniors cant’t beat her, this is their issue and not hers. That being said, I do hope her PCS scores don’t get inflated by all the excitement over her jumps. Clean programs by Bradie and/or Mariah should still be able to compete with her.

eaglehelang · Nov 19, 2018

surimi said:
I came here originally just to support Gracie, not expecting my #1 fave to be brought up, but since you did...

I honestly cannot think of a skater Gracie could fully relate to, and I suspect it's because there's still a stigma on mental health issues, and I guess we never learn who all battled them in their career. The only parallel with Sota is coming back from 0, but then, there was 'just' an injury involved.(*) To my knowledge, there was no eating disorder, and no criticism after a big disappointment that Boston Worlds meant to Gracie.

She's really a pioneer in combining a return from no jumps, and return from severe psychological issues. My respect for that! She might set an example to skaters who develop the same issues. I could see she wasn't competition ready at Rostelecom, but it's a start of a work in progress, a test of her own abilities and mindset. How long has it been again that she returned to training? I admire that she just didn't give up and retire, and I hope she doesn't. I hope she still enjoys training and competing, hard as it is. It was nice to see her again. It might take a long time, but I hope she gets back on the competitive level. She doesn't have anything to prove anymore in terms of results, and if she only skates for her own joy, good enough for me. Fingers crossed! My only recommendation: a different costume for her, as this one isn't flattering. It looks like she's trying to hide her body in all the black and vertical stripes, and that would mean she still isn't feeling comfortable with it. I hope she puts that kind of pressure behind her.

)[/SIZE]

A poster above you mentioned Akiko Suzuki. She came back after a eating disorder. Her weight went down from 48 kg to 32 kg and she was too weak to even jump.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1ET1FK

But thus far there are very little details of how the Akiko or others who suffered from eating disorder overcome it.
Unlike gymnastics where its more highlighted with books written, one reason I think is cos there are gymnast who died from eating disorder.

P/S : Tq for the corrections on Sota recovery. I dont really follow his progress and got mixed up the timeline.

Sjs5572 · Nov 19, 2018

Moxiejan said:
She is competing at nationals as a senior. Internationally, she is too young for junior, so will have to compete in adavanced novice for another year.

Fyi, she can compete as a Junior commencing the 2019-2020 season.

surimi · Nov 19, 2018

eaglehelang said:
A poster above you mentioned Akiko Suzuki. She came back after a eating disorder. Her weight went down from 48 kg to 32 kg and she was too weak to even jump.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1ET1FK

But thus far there are very little details of how the Akiko or others who suffered from eating disorder overcome it.
Unlike gymnastics where its more highlighted with books written, one reason I think is cos there are gymnast who died from eating disorder.

P/S : Tq for the corrections on Sota recovery. I dont really follow his progress and got mixed up the timeline.

Thanks for the info on Akiko! I knew she was struggling with a disorder, but didn't know she lost her jumps as a result. That's one successful return story Gracie might relate to, then.

lurkz2 · Nov 19, 2018

eaglehelang said:
A poster above you mentioned Akiko Suzuki. She came back after a eating disorder. Her weight went down from 48 kg to 32 kg and she was too weak to even jump.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1ET1FK

But thus far there are very little details of how the Akiko or others who suffered from eating disorder overcome it.
Unlike gymnastics where its more highlighted with books written, one reason I think is cos there are gymnast who died from eating disorder.

P/S : Tq for the corrections on Sota recovery. I dont really follow his progress and got mixed up the timeline.

Akiko Suzuki was very much discussed in this site. In case you're interested, here's a couple of links.

https://goldenskate.com/2010/04/the-exception-to-the-rule/

https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?57063-Akiko-Suzuki-Speaks-Up-About-Body-Issues

brightphoton · Nov 19, 2018

DSQ said:
That’s crazy. I mean I really rate her, she clearly has talent and ambition, but what’s the point of competing as a senior at nationals? If she wins and yet can’t be sent to worlds it gonna make the girl who comes second look bad in comparison.

Experience, bye for next year, sponsorships

In 2008? the entire Nationals podium was too young to go to Worlds. It was Mirai Nagasu, Caroline Zhang, Rachel Flatt, uhh I can't remember the rest.

But anyway we sent Ashley Wagner, Kimmie Meissner and someone else. They were like 4th, 5th and 6th place at Nationals. The World results were pretty bad and that was the first year that we earned 2 spots at World's instead of 3.

Tolstoj · Nov 19, 2018

MK's Winter said:
The point is she didn’t need to go to Russia to face the reality. Reality is her progress in the rink everyday. Vincent, along with others, as the one who is advising her is absolutely to blame. He is her coach. The one she is supposed to look at for guidance and advice and a training regimen. One of the stand out gems in this recap is this- “He needs her more than she needs him”

I've personally faced a similar situation at Uni cause my high school had prepared me for engineering but i chose economics cause i wanted to do something different and then quickly realized i had zero knowledge about that world. The first year was a nightmare because teachers take for granted you already know certain basis, as a result first exams didn't go well and if you can't close the gap, as time goes on you enter in that loop where you never feel prepared, it's never enough, and you start to think "you're not ready for this exam next week, but maybe in a month or two you can do better" so you skip opportunities and it's hard to find a way back.

So for that i respect Gracie cause in that moment she decided to go anyway, and try. From here she can start to build something.

While if she didn't go to Rostelecom Cup, she wouldn't have known what's her level at a competitive stage where there is obviously much more pressure to deal, and she would have probably faced all of this at Nationals where there is all that nonsense drama.

musicfan80 · Nov 19, 2018

surimi said:
I honestly cannot think of a skater Gracie could fully relate to, and I suspect it's because there's still a stigma on mental health issues, and I guess we never learn who all battled them in their career.

What about Joshua Farris? Are they or were they close? He’s dealt with anxiety and depression (granted, they were related to concussions and it has appeared that he had a great support system). But he apparently has dealt with his skating career not going how he probably wanted and is successfully transistioning to his professional life afterwards.

Could Damon Allen be a better fit as a coach for Gracie?

MK's Winter · Nov 19, 2018

twirlingblades said:
Agreed. Everyone knew this was coming. She hasn’t been doing run throughs (because she physically can’t do them). She hasn’t been doing triples. She hasn’t had adequate time to prepare in any way. Her coach is a leech. The fact that they had the option to WD and retain a nationals spot and didn’t is shameful. Just throwing her out there to see what would stick was hard to watch. I hope this wasn’t too much of a setback in her recovery. I don’t want her to go to nationals until she’s mentally (and physically) ready, even if that means waiting until 2020 nationals.

That may sound harsh, but I think I’ve gotten angrier since the competition ended. This whole situation was just so completely avoidable.

All of this. I’m not even looking at this as a skating fan. I have kids of my own- I look at this with complete mom rage.

andromache · Nov 19, 2018

Re: Alysa at senior nationals. It's going to be fantastic experience for her in terms of learning how to compete under the pressure of a huge audience at a big event. That seems like the biggest benefit for her, long-term.

The biggest potential drawback is the hype she is going to get. Even if she doesn't medal, Tara and Johnny and the rest of the media are going to be hyping her (and it's not even their fault - she's a 13 year old girl doing 3As - you kind of have to hype that up). It could have a negative impact on her long-term. That said, I think her family and team are probably pretty aware of the hype they're going to be facing and will prepare her for it.

concorde · Nov 19, 2018

Can we please shift to Bradie and France!

The ladies field is so deep but I am super optimistic that she will medal. If she does not, then this will be the first season that the US ladies have not medaled at a GP event. I am hoping we can skip that "first."

chuckm · Nov 19, 2018

brightphoton said:
Experience, bye for next year, sponsorships

In 2008? the entire Nationals podium was too young to go to Worlds. It was Mirai Nagasu, Caroline Zhang, Rachel Flatt, uhh I can't remember the rest.

But anyway we sent Ashley Wagner, Kimmie Meissner and someone else. They were like 4th, 5th and 6th place at Nationals. The World results were pretty bad and that was the first year that we earned 2 spots at World's instead of 3.

In the fall of 2006, Caroline Zhang and Ashley Wagner went to the JGP. Each won their two events and they finished 1-2 at the JGPF. After 2007 Nationals, Caroline Zhang, Mirai Nagasu and Ashley Wagner went to Junior Worlds and swept the podium there. In the fall of 2007, Mirai Nagasu went to the JGP and won both of her events and the JGPF. All three girls were established stars at the junior level and clearly on the fast track when they moved up to senior for 2008 Nationals. It is definitely not the same situation that we have with Alysa Liu now, who has no international record other than a limited one at the Advanced Novice level.

When Nagasu, Flatt and Wagner finished 1-2-3 at 2008 Worlds, the first two weren't old enough to go. Flatt, Zhang and Nagasu were sent to JW and they swept the podium again, in that order.

At Senior Worlds 2008, Ashley Wagner, Kimmie Meissner and Beatrisa Liang represented the US. But 2008 was the heyday of Mao Asada, YuNa Kim and Carolina Kostner, at a time when Michelle Kwan and Sasha Cohen had left a huge vacancy at the top in US figureskating.

Kimmie Meissner had won Worlds in 2006, but was 4th in 2007 and faded to 7th in 2008 as late growth scuttled her skating career. Beatrisa Liang was 10th, and Ashley Wagner 17th at their first Worlds.

2018-19 U.S. Ladies' figure skating

Skater Boy

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️

lurkz2

DSQ

Moxiejan

elephanter

surimi

Congrats to Sota, #10 in World Standings!

DSQ

Moxiejan

eaglehelang

Sjs5572

surimi

Congrats to Sota, #10 in World Standings!

lurkz2

brightphoton

Tolstoj

musicfan80

MK's Winter

andromache

concorde

chuckm

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