2018-19 Russian Men's figure skating | Page 8 | Golden Skate

2018-19 Russian Men's figure skating

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vorravorra

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Just making a general observation really. Many of the folks that people seem to use as examples of great technique (Liza, Caro, even Yuzu) have a history of poor showings or even entire seasons :scard7:.

I just find it curious.
It is harder to jump with what is understood as textbook technique. Huge jumps that look beautiful are in fact more difficult to control. Smaller less spectacular jumps, often with "optimised" features like prerotation, are more secure and use up less energy. There is a certain trade-off.
 

vorravorra

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Yes, he is experienced but then so is TAT. And it's well-known that he asked Mikhail to train with him and Mikhail turned him down so he may be just a tad biased.
On the other hand, Aliev asked to train with Mishin when he came from Ukhta and Mishin turned him down because he didn't see potential. Rukavicin did, and where is Aliev now and where are any of Mishin's male students? His group has been a cemetery lately.
 

Sam-Skwantch

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It is harder to jump with what is understood as textbook technique. Huge jumps that look beautiful are in fact more difficult to control. Smaller less spectacular jumps, often with "optimised" features like prerotation, are more secure and use up less energy. There is a certain trade-off.

Ive never really liked big huge jumps and frequently think they look out of control a lot of the time even when landed. I’d rather see decent height and excellent flow in and out. Just me though. To me the jump should add to the program and flow of it and not stand out from it which huge jumps often do IMO. I’m probably off topic though :slink:
 

vorravorra

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Ive never really liked big huge jumps and frequently thought they look out of control a lot of the time even when landed. I’d rather see decent height and excellent flow in and out. Just me though. To me the jump should add to the program and flow of it and not stand out from it which huge jumps often do IMO. I’m probably off topic though :slink:
Jump height doesn't preclude flow in and out. Jumps certainly should not be the only thing that stands out in a program, or especially the only thing there is to a program, there should be a balance. But they are an important part of singles' skating and should not be just kind of there either. And jumps with bad technique also stand out, just in a much worse way - as an eyesore that makes it difficult to enjoy a program.
 

skatenewbie

Medalist
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Mar 16, 2017
To sub him out of Bratislava? Also historically, he has done 2 of the first 3 events his entire junior career so he very well may do 2 back to back events just like he did in 2016.
i doubt RusFed will change assignment unless the skater is injured or skate so poorly at test skates. Even when he can do back to back doesnt mean he should/they should do that to him. i think its kinda unfair because he can be tired and skate poor at 2nd even easily and we know he wasn't that consistent to begin with. well better than having no JGP i suppose...


Technically he should.

If you disrupt each element, Mikhail Kolyada is the best male skater, or one of the best (i'd put Hanyu up there), and definitely the best in Russia: he has the best jumping technique in the world no question, very good spinner, strong skating skills and most importantly he has a personality on the ice. The problem is that he's not consistent at all, but even the Federation understood his potential.

Just the other day i watched one of his old programs, when he wasn't a top contender.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QarO_so4LPU

i'd like to see Aliev being Russia number 2 but he needs to be more consistent and practice more the spins (all Rukavicin skaters have issues with the spins, so this is a problem) otherwise Samarin, with a clean 4ltz and the CSKA inflation, and Erokhov will overtake him.

It's interesting that Kolyada and Erokhov will compete at the same events in Finland and Russia at the GP.
Kolyada can be strong in SP but FS is often mess and lack of quad also hurt him. He do have 3 quads but only 1 is kinda consistent. Imo he is not really far above Aliev but he just already acknowledge by judges and RusFed always pushes him like giving high PCS even when he skate poorly. If Samarin lands clean 2 quad lutz quad toe and Aliev land clean quad toe and lutz it could be a threat to Kolyada. as for Erokhov he lack PCS as a new senior. he does have quite consistent quad sal and toe though.
 

RemyRose

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i doubt RusFed will change assignment unless the skater is injured or skate so poorly at test skates. Even when he can do back to back doesnt mean he should/they should do that to him. i think its kinda unfair because he can be tired and skate poor at 2nd even easily and we know he wasn't that consistent to begin with. well better than having no JGP i suppose...

How do you know this isn't his choice? He has always skated his JGP events like this. In 2016 he did the 1st and 2nd events, in 2017 the 1st and 3rd. It could very well be his team strategy and more power to them if it works again like it did in 2016 and earns him a spot in the JGPF.
 

skatenewbie

Medalist
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How do you know this isn't his choice? He has always skated his JGP events like this. In 2016 he did the 1st and 2nd events, in 2017 the 1st and 3rd. It could very well be his team strategy and more power to them if it works again like it did in 2016 and earns him a spot in the JGPF.
i know its RusFed choice thats why i said i dont understand RusFed choice.... i said its better than RusFed didnt give any JGP lol im not stupid. i said its just he could get tired and skate bad because of it. well if it works for him then good, let's see how he did.
 

RemyRose

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i know its RusFed choice thats why i said i dont understand RusFed choice.... i said its better than RusFed didnt give any JGP lol im not stupid. i said its just he could get tired and skate bad because of it. well if it works for him then good, let's see how he did.

Well if he skates/places badly at the 1st one, he doesn't have to worry about getting tired for the 2nd one :devil: So I hope he's ready as there is a lot of competition at JGP#1.
 

coldblueeyes

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i doubt RusFed will change assignment unless the skater is injured or skate so poorly at test skates. Even when he can do back to back doesnt mean he should/they should do that to him. i think its kinda unfair because he can be tired and skate poor at 2nd even easily and we know he wasn't that consistent to begin with. well better than having no JGP i suppose...


Kolyada can be strong in SP but FS is often mess and lack of quad also hurt him. He do have 3 quads but only 1 is kinda consistent. Imo he is not really far above Aliev but he just already acknowledge by judges and RusFed always pushes him like giving high PCS even when he skate poorly. If Samarin lands clean 2 quad lutz quad toe and Aliev land clean quad toe and lutz it could be a threat to Kolyada. as for Erokhov he lack PCS as a new senior. he does have quite consistent quad sal and toe though.

In regards to the jumps, in the grand scheme of things he might not be that far ahead of most of the other top guys in Russia, but in PCS he is well above, and beyond. The general state of his SS help him get that push to separate him from the pack, which is not something that will differentiate him from the rest forever, but it does for now.
 

Tutto

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Jan 25, 2013
In an interview with the Russian press pusblished a few days ago Rafael Arutunian spoke positively about Mikhail Kolyada, praising his work ethics and saying that they worked on the quads and that he is pleased with the result of their work. So that sounds promising. Hopefully Rafael had a few tips for Mikhail to improve his consistency. When I spoke to Alexei Mishin a few weeks ago, he pointed out that Mikhail is very talented, but his training is not systematic enough. I agree with Tolstoj, that Mikhail is one of the best in the world as a complete skater if you look at his elements (jumps, spins, footwork) and he does have charisma (but he doesn't always show it enough in competition). It will be interesting to see what he will aim for in the season - +4/+5 execution on triples or risking 4Lz and the 4S. He said to me in June that he will see how things work and he will try different options. Selfishly I hope to see the gorgeous 4Lz again ;-).
As for Dmitri Aliev, he is also very talented and has great qualities. The two skaters are very different as stated above, but they are right now the top Russian men and they are the ones with the biggest potential for sure right now.

Many thanks for your insight - always appreciated!

I think you misunderstood. Mishin's comment about the lack of systematic training is not about lack of work ethics but about the construction of the training (in which order he practices his jumps and how one thing builds on the next - or not in this case) and he basically criticized Mikhail's coach (not the skater). True, Mishin is not present at regular practice sessions, but he has been watching Mikhail's training at competitions. He is one of the most experienced coaches in the world and I'm sure he knows what he is talking about.

I respect Mishin for his past achievements of course ,but unfortunately for him every time he mentions Mika it's just so obvious that there is some sort of personal grudge/jealousy/bias... that it makes his opinion otherwise valuable much less so...
I don't believe for a moment that Mika is not training hard enough or the training structure is lacking somehow, the quality in everything he does speaks for himself (Mishin's students with textbook jump technique, gorgeous SS & great spins combined - where are they may I ask?). His problems are entirely mental - a lack of self confidence, competitive attitude, killer instinct you name it but it is all between the ears...he is not lacking stamina either so nothing wrong with his training as such but mental preparation is an issue and I think this is what they went to Raf for (though it could not be said that Nathan has no problem in that department either)
 

coldblueeyes

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Many thanks for your insight - always appreciated!



I respect Mishin for his past achievements of course ,but unfortunately for him every time he mentions Mika it's just so obvious that there is some sort of personal grudge/jealousy/bias... that it makes his opinion otherwise valuable much less so...
I don't believe for a moment that Mika is not training hard enough or the training structure is lacking somehow, the quality in everything he does speaks for himself (Mishin's students with textbook jump technique, gorgeous SS & great spins combined - where are they may I ask?). His problems are entirely mental - a lack of self confidence, competitive attitude, killer instinct you name it but it is all between the ears...he is not lacking stamina either so nothing wrong with his training as such but mental preparation is an issue and I think this is what they went to Raf for (though it could not be said that Nathan has no problem in that department either)

The guy churned out a couple of brilliant skates during the season, though. Especially those clean FSs, which put him above Misha in that aspect. Not even Yuzu skates clean an entire season, but at the right moment he's delivering, this is Misha's problem he has a hard time delivering.
 

Tutto

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Jan 25, 2013
The guy churned out a couple of brilliant skates during the season, though. Especially those clean FSs, which put him above Misha in that aspect. Not even Yuzu skates clean an entire season, but at the right moment he's delivering, this is Misha's problem he has a hard time delivering.

Yes Nathan's results speak for themselves I'd not argue with that.
Mika had actually a very tough season where delivery was concerned and the fact that he still was able to win so many medals only proves his abilities. I hope that this season with Oly madness past us he may find that right mindset to approach competitions differently
 

vorravorra

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Apr 9, 2016
Many thanks for your insight - always appreciated!



I respect Mishin for his past achievements of course ,but unfortunately for him every time he mentions Mika it's just so obvious that there is some sort of personal grudge/jealousy/bias... that it makes his opinion otherwise valuable much less so...
I don't believe for a moment that Mika is not training hard enough or the training structure is lacking somehow, the quality in everything he does speaks for himself (Mishin's students with textbook jump technique, gorgeous SS & great spins combined - where are they may I ask?). His problems are entirely mental - a lack of self confidence, competitive attitude, killer instinct you name it but it is all between the ears...he is not lacking stamina either so nothing wrong with his training as such but mental preparation is an issue and I think this is what they went to Raf for (though it could not be said that Nathan has no problem in that department either)
Mishin/Kolyada/Chebotareva have a history going back to when Kolyada was in his teens and Chebotareva brought him to Mishin for a consultation. Mishin asked Kolyada to leave Chebotareva and come train with him permanently, Kolyada thought about it with his family and refused. The way it all went down seems to have left some hard feelings, at least on Mishin's side, or it's just that he is the one who is not keeping quiet about it. This isn't his first dig at Kolyada/Chebotareva, but at least the previous ones stayed in Russia where people are aware of the background of the situation.

And it seems Kolyada is the only skater in the country that Mishing knows how to train to land multiple quads consistently, as he hasn't managed it with anyone else. Kolyada is a talented jumper, no question, but he is not quite that unique.
 

Tatjana

On the Ice
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Jun 26, 2011
I respect Mishin for his past achievements of course ,but unfortunately for him every time he mentions Mika it's just so obvious that there is some sort of personal grudge/jealousy/bias... that it makes his opinion otherwise valuable much less so...
I don't believe for a moment that Mika is not training hard enough or the training structure is lacking somehow, the quality in everything he does speaks for himself (Mishin's students with textbook jump technique, gorgeous SS & great spins combined - where are they may I ask?). His problems are entirely mental - a lack of self confidence, competitive attitude, killer instinct you name it but it is all between the ears...he is not lacking stamina either so nothing wrong with his training as such but mental preparation is an issue and I think this is what they went to Raf for (though it could not be said that Nathan has no problem in that department either)

Nobody said that Mikhail is not training hard enough, even not Mishin. ;-) Actually, Mishin spoke very highly of Mikhail. I didn't notice a grudge.
I agree that the inconsistency issues come probably mainly from the head. I've seen lots of practices at competitions last season and Mikhail most of the time looked great, especially as the season went on.
Mishin's male students right now are not the top of the crop, but I don't think that is due to his abilities as a coach. Lisa at least seems to get her confidence back.
 

SkySkater

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Jun 5, 2018
On the Russian forums they are saying these are the boys that are at test skates:
Kovalev, Polyansky, Humennik, Rukhin, Vetlugin, Yakovlev, Mozalev, Murashov, Savosin, Yablokov, Semenenko.
 

RemyRose

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On the Russian forums they are saying these are the boys that are at test skates:
Kovalev, Polyansky, Humennik, Rukhin, Vetlugin, Yakovlev, Mozalev, Murashov, Savosin, Yablokov, Semenenko.

Thanks. So no Danielian (expected) but also no Makar. I hope we get music announcements via interviews, the ISU hasn't quite made it to updating the Russians profiles :biggrin:
 

RemyRose

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From test skates (SP):

From loveskater
All fell and fell ... Clean rental three ..
what a blond powerfully jumped 3lz-3lo
I'm guessing the blond is Vetlugin.

From Irishkin
Not everything is so bad for boys, well, Yablochkov did not go, but he still did not fall from everything, he did a cascade.
For me, Mozalev definitely won the piano, he had it last year, but the hire is very good, Rukhin is not bad for slow, 3a did, with the cascade in the second half only fell out. Savosin moved quite well, but fell very unpleasantly from trying trikselya.
3a all jumped except Polyansky, Yakovlev and Semenenko. Polyansky and Gumennik are already in suits. Gumennik is also very well prepared, I would put the second.

Irishkin
Semenenko high axel, it is the first, so maybe the season jump. He skated well, but he bites heavily in jumping with his hull, Yakovlev skates well, Polyansky is not bad, he was a little clamped, but he rolls great, some kind of a blot was on the hop.
Kovalev fell to 3a, Murashov on a solo jump. about someone else has not written ..

ETA:
In response to a question, "who did not fall?"
Irishkin
Mozalev and Gumennik did not fall, Rukhin just fell out of the cascade, Yakovlev, Semenenko, Polyansky in question (some kind of memory failure, poor exit or dropped)
 

RemyRose

YOLO
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And we know some music :biggrin:

Kovalev
SP
The Passenger ("Batman Forever" soundtrack)
Stand Up by Garou
LP
Granada performed by Andre Rieu
Concierto de Aranjuez by Joaquin Rodrigo
Innuendo performed by Queen
http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00101050.htm

Rukhin
SP
Sense by Tom Odell
LP
Oblivion by Astor Piazzolla, performed by Lucia Micarelli
http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00102768.htm

Gumennik
SP
Czardas by Monti
LP
Love Theme from "Romeo and Juliet"
http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00054617.htm
 
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