Yuna Kim's double-double-double

NadezhdaNadya · Apr 9, 2018

I find it amusing that Yuna Kim used to double-double-double. To be exact, she used to do 2A-2T-2Lo. Did she have some kind of problem and that is why she did not do triple-double-double?
I know she could not do anymore 3Lo and, of course, as most ladies' skaters, she could not land a 3A. But I do not understand this 2A-2T-2Lo.

Does someone has any possible explanation about it? :scratch2:

drivingmissdaisy · Apr 9, 2018

She's evil.

Just kidding. She, like everyone else, tried to maximize points with her jumping passes. The 2A-3T was basically non-existent in ladies LPs from the late 1980's until COP came along in the mid-2000s, so point accrual has played a big role in what jumping passes the skaters try.

NadezhdaNadya · Apr 9, 2018

drivingmissdaisy said:
She's evil.

Just kidding. She, like everyone else, tried to maximize points with her jumping passes. The 2A-3T was basically non-existent in ladies LPs from the late 1980's until COP came along in the mid-2000s, so point accrual has played a big role in what jumping passes the skaters try.

Yes, she used to do 2A-3T as well. But I was asking about her 2A-2T-2Lo.

*~RussianBleux~* · Apr 9, 2018

NadezhdaNadya said:
I find it amusing that Yuna Kim used to double-double-double. To be exact, she used to do 2A-2T-2Lo. Did she have some kind of problem and that is why she did not do triple-double-double?
I know she could not do anymore 3Lo and, of course, as most ladies' skaters, she could not land a 3A. But I do not understand this 2A-2T-2Lo.

Does someone has any possible explanation about it?

I don't really consider the 2A a "double" in the same way a 2S or 2T is a double. It's a standard element for senior ladies. They have to have an axel and most do 2A not 3A. If Yuna had a 2A+2T instead of 3T then it is probably because she had the 3T elsewhere.

Indeed at the 2010 Olympics she did 3L+3T and 2A+3T, so there is her allotment of 3Ts.

NadezhdaNadya · Apr 9, 2018

*~RussianBleux~* said:
I don't really consider the 2A a "double" in the same way a 2S or 2T is a double. It's a standard element for senior ladies. They have to have an axel and most do 2A not 3A. If Yuna had a 2A+2T instead of 3T then it is probably because she had the 3T elsewhere.

Indeed at the 2010 Olympics she did 3L+3T and 2A+3T, so there is her allotment of 3Ts.

Ok, why she did not do 3S or 3F instead of 2A?

lesnar001 · Apr 9, 2018

Maybe I am remembering wrong but I seem to recall that quite a few ladies did double-double-double when they first started doing 3-jump combinations

I can't even remember when this was but it had to be after the 6.0 era

Shayuki · Apr 9, 2018

Same amount of points... It makes no difference what the first jump in a -2T-2Lo combo is as long as you combo any triple you want to repeat.

pete · Apr 9, 2018

Evgenia ist doing 2A-2T-2T

lesnar001 · Apr 9, 2018

A little off topic but can someone explain to me why the same combination can be repeated

I remember a couple of years ago that Satoko Miyahara was doing two 2A+3T's in her LP and the announcer said she was allowed to do that but I don't think an explanation was given

In the World Championships this came up again when Wakaba Higuchi did two 3L+3T's in her LP

The explanation is probably simple but I can't seem to grasp the concept?

Thank you very much

OS · Apr 9, 2018

*cough* Sochi Prep rule changes... limiting inclusion 2A 3T if you don't do the 3loop.
Other than that, variety is the spice of life.

*~RussianBleux~* · Apr 9, 2018

NadezhdaNadya said:
Ok, why she did not do 3S or 3F instead of 2A?

Again everyone must have at least one axel jump. Not every woman needs the 3A. Alina Zagitova and Evgenia Medvedeva managed just fine without it and so did Yuna. They all do the 2A instead. Yuna did 3T twice already in the program. She simply decided to put her 2T+2Lo on the end of her already required 2A rather than one of her other triples.

As far as repeating the 2A instead of another triple, I'm pretty sure most everyone does this. Look at the protocols for Worlds and the Olympics. Evgenia had 2A+2T+2T at the Olympics and repeated 2A as the last jump in the program (also had 3F+3T and 3S+3T so both 3T accounted for). Wakaba had 2A+2T+2Lo and also a lone 2A (on top of completing 3L+3T twice).

Spirals for Miles · Apr 9, 2018

What the OP meant, I think, is why not do 3F-2T-2Lo or 3S-2T-2Lo, because having a triple means higher GOE factoring. And I really don't know. Easiest for her, probably.

OS · Apr 9, 2018

The thing I find amusing is if the Free program is truly free, and they don't cap on how many varieties of jumps, or number jump passes you do. And they bother to really judge artistic merits with credibility, even put in the effort to have a separate PCS specialist panel that is independent from TES, that are not federation judges.

Who do you think to have the potential to score the highest? Now... wouldn't that be something? I'd love a match up for Alina and her crazy amount of jump marathon, vs the refinement, temperament of a seasoned veteran like Kostner or Satoko. And have their score actually reflect their performance. There should be a clear separation of TES and PCS quality which is not currently done under the current judging panel system, which actually makes COP a farce. (If judges don't follow the codes, then what is the point of the code of points?)

Sam-Skwantch · Apr 9, 2018

^That seems way off topic :scratch:

NadezhdaNadya · Apr 9, 2018

Spirals for Miles said:
What the OP meant, I think, is why not do 3F-2T-2Lo or 3S-2T-2Lo, because having a triple means higher GOE factoring. And I really don't know. Easiest for her, probably.

I meant exactly this.

Thank you for the understanding.

frida80 · Apr 9, 2018

She couldn't do a 3Lo because of injury, so this made up for the loop.

NadezhdaNadya · Apr 9, 2018

frida80 said:
She couldn't do a 3Lo because of injury, so this made up for the loop.

I know. And this is not my question.

*~RussianBleux~* · Apr 9, 2018

NadezhdaNadya said:
I meant exactly this. Thank you for the understanding.

Why single out Yuna? Did you not know many skaters are putting 2T+2T or 2T+2Lo (or even just 2T) on the end of their required 2A instead of another triple? Everyone needs an axel. That choice of layout I think is for the same reason you don't see all these skaters trying 3A yet they still manage to be very successful. Not every second of the program needs to be of the upmost difficulty. Skating is more than just the jumps.

Izabela · Apr 9, 2018

Also people have to remember that her layout (with 2A-2T-2L) won her the 2013 Worlds with 20+pts so spare which means she was not aiming for higher TES (in terms of BV) more than she did for higher GOEs because of the quality of her jumps.

The only reason I could think of is that she and her team didn’t think to change her layout at that time and that combo fits well with choreography (more room for her stsq). She can do a lot with her 2A (combining it with difficult entries) with less set up than having a combo that starts with any triple jump. Also as OS mentioned, there were those post-Vancouver rule changes where Yuna couldn’t add her 2A-3T anymore.

NadezhdaNadya · Apr 9, 2018

*~RussianBleux~* said:
Why single out Yuna? Did you not know many skaters are putting 2T+2T or 2T+2Lo (or even just 2T) on the end of their required 2A instead of another triple? Everyone needs an axel. That choice of layout I think is for the same reason you don't see all these skaters trying 3A yet they still manage to be very successful. Not every second of the program needs to be of the upmost difficulty. Skating is more than just the jumps.

Once again, my thread is not about the 2A. In fact, she had three (!!!) 2A in her Olympics 2010 FS program. She repeated that jump three times.
My thread is about the reasons why she did not have triple-double-double like many other ladies. Carolina did 3S-2T-2T in Olympics 2014. Yuna did again 2A-2T-2Lo.
Yuna is my favourite skater. High expectations.

Yuna Kim's double-double-double

NadezhdaNadya

drivingmissdaisy

NadezhdaNadya

~RussianBleux~

NadezhdaNadya

lesnar001

Shayuki

pete

lesnar001

OS

Sedated by Modonium

~RussianBleux~

Spirals for Miles

Anna Shcherbakova is my World Champion

OS

Sedated by Modonium

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

NadezhdaNadya

frida80

NadezhdaNadya

~RussianBleux~

Izabela

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