2018-19 Canadian figure skating

Sigh. Why all the snarking? I think it's a shame for all of us that this is happening at all. Why don't we try to learn from each other? Russia has a great depth in ladies today, but this was not the case in the past. One may like it or not, but their system seems to work in producing champions. If getting champions is the aim: good for them! However, my main personal problem would be that I like to root for specific skaters and I just didn't get the chance with them quite recently, but I am now. Zagitova may encounter some mishaps, but she's continuing and still winning medals, the same for Medvedeva and Liza makes it all even better! Isn't it just great that we get to follow these young ladies, even after big successes? With the Canadians, it's slightly different. I love Kaetlyn's skating and I've been able to follow her for quite some time. That was nice, and now hopefully Gaby's back (if not medalling). The Canadian ladies programme did well too, though in a different way. Both systems have brought us beautiful skates and programmes. It depends a bit on what you like as a fan (and I'm not in favour of any specific country, just love certain skaters). With the pairs (my favourite always) there's more similarity in programmes I think: both systems produce more longevity. I think it's wonderful that after following D/B for many years, MT/M are now showing great promise...while T/M have been on the scene for quite a while and are still developping. Both systems have young talents coming up, and don't I love them all. While in the end I'm rooting for Loena in ladies, and J/C in pairs. Haha...no development programme present at all. But I hope both Russians and Canadians score well at Worlds! Whatever the system behind it.

kenboy123 said:

it does have an effect on what certain people choose to support or not support though...i already talked about what I thought about Russia's system in the way they build their skaters...especially the ladies...there is a reason they none of them have longevity....and there is a reason that Canada seems to have just one or maybe 2 women they can score highly at one time....

Click to expand...

You dislike their system for what it is, which is fine, it's a matter of personal opinion. Some people like the constant high level of success systems but higher skater turnover like Russia has, and others prefer the systems with more ups and downs but more skater longevity like Canada. But it has nothing to do with politics.

Japan seems to have it both ways. They turn out consistently good ladies year after year, and the ladies are around well into their 20s.

Japanese ladies over the last 20 years:

Midori Ito: 1989 World Champion, 1992 Olympic silver medalist.
Yuka Sato: 1994 World Champion
Fumie Suguri: World medalist 2002, 2003 and 2006.
Shizuka Arakawa: 2006 Olympic Champion, 2004 World Champion
Miki Ando: 2007 and 2011 World Champion, 2009 World medalist
Mao Asada: 2008, 2010 and 2014 World Champion, 2010 silver Olympic medalist, World medalwinner 2007, 2013
Akiko Suzuki: 2012 World medalist
Satoko Miyahara: 2015, 2018 World medalist
Wakaba Higuchi: 2018 World medalist

For those of you who don't have access to the competition thread, PM if you'd like a temporary download link for CBC television's belated coverage of 4CC from this past Saturday.

emdee said:

Canada is not Russia!
Instead of burning out our skaters we nurture them...
That is why Evgenia chose to train here!

Click to expand...

Unfortunately everyone missed my sarcasm. I guess it was too gentle. So I will go with the flow lol - remember Tracey Wainman??? She was nurtured into disaster. But I actually prefer the Canadian system.

blue_idealist said:

IDK, I think Cotop might pleasantly surprise us.

Click to expand...

I hope so but isn't she missing some of her triples - flip? Lutz? Might be hard unless she was competing in the Katarina Witt days.

Skater Boy said:

I hope so but isn't she missing some of her triples - flip? Lutz? Might be hard unless she was competing in the Katarina Witt days.

Click to expand...

She did 3F at nationals, just not in the short.

I think she injury is dictating what she’s putting in the program at the moment. They are likely juggeling between higher tech or garaunteed clean, which a goal to make the free program at worlds.

Not sure what Aurora's programs will look like by worlds (has her injury improved enough to up her difficulty?), but looking at her Bavarian Open content,
if she's completely clean, she'll score a few/several pts higher than Veronik's score from 4CC

She has a higher BV by a few points, and got all her levels at BO (not sure how lenient/strict the panel was there though). PCS was around the same as Veronik's despite a couple urs and a fall in the FS.

Obviously she's not going to place super high, but I'm excited to see how she does

For the SP, Aurora will be in one of the earliest groups to skate, as her WR is in the bottom 12. Alaine will be in one of the middle groups, and Gabrielle will be in the next-to-last group.

Just a reminder: Larkyn Austman skates her SP at the Cup of Tyrol tomorrow, Friday at 12:45 pm EST. She's hoping to achieve the 29 TES minimum for the SP.

Larkyn just skated. With the short program complete, she's in 3nd place with 55.19, but unfortunately did not get the TES minimum of 29---just 27.24 this time:


Only the top two (Nicole Rajicova-SVK and Marina Piredda-ITA) earned the TES minimum.

Larkyn's SP: 3lo+2t, 3s, 1a*

It's unfortunate that Larkyn cannot achieve the SP TES, which I would assume is the primary reason she came to this competition. I really enjoyed watching her in person at 4CC. She has nice flow and lines across the ice that I did not appreciate via telecast.

truthbooth said:

It's unfortunate that Larkyn cannot achieve the SP TES, which I would assume is the primary reason she came to this competition. I really enjoyed watching her in person at 4CC. She has nice flow and lines across the ice that I did not appreciate via telecast.

Click to expand...

Too bad, esp. for such a natural performer and a charmer. Next season then.

:sad4:for Larkyn

:sad21::sad21::sad21:

Especially because from the protocols, it looks like aside from the 1A, she had a great skate, with all L4 spins and steps. The 29 TES is completely within her grasp. With a decent 2A (small positive GOE), she would have gotten over 31 TES. Grrrrr!

Scout said:

:sad21::sad21::sad21:

Especially because from the protocols, it looks like aside from the 1A, she had a great skate, with all L4 spins and steps. The 29 TES is completely within her grasp. With a decent 2A (small positive GOE), she would have gotten over 31 TES. Grrrrr!

Click to expand...

Yeah, and I think a mistake on the 2A was what prevented her from getting it last time too.

It's too bad to hear that Larkyn didn't reach the tech minimum in the SP. She seems to be Canada's version of an 'almost girl' - She gets really close, but doesn't quite make it. Hopefully she'll be able to get over the hump next year! She has a lot of good qualities. She just needs to bring everything together.

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

Well, tell that to Tuktamysheva. Or Pogorilaya. Or Radionova. All skaters who have had slip-ups but then came back. Russia has way more depth of course than Canada so you need to maintain high technical ability to stay in the hunt, but it's not completely unforgiving (not yet at least).

For some time, Chartrand and Daleman were also strong technical skaters although their level has gone done. Unlike Russia, Canada is not a pool of everyone who can do 3-3's where if someone falters or grows (see Lipnitskaia), there's a dozen jumping beans in the wings. We simply don't have the infrastructure, or investment, or frankly commitment to develop dozens of replacement skaters, but rather choose to focus on bright spots. Figure skating is just not something we care about compared to countries like Russia and Japan, so it's hard enough to get enough interest in the sport, let alone World-level contenders -- and yet, we have found a way with skaters like Osmond/Rochette/Daleman (and even some like Phaneuf and Chartrand).

It took Kostner 10 years to get a World gold and 12 to get an Olympic bronze, and Medvedeva has 2 World golds in her first 2 years and 3 years to get an Olympic silver. And a Canadian (after coming back from injury) eventually managed World silver and then gold, in spite of Russia and Japan being the putative favourites. All are valid ways to achieve success.

Click to expand...

But what is the foundation of this success? What are your reasons for arguing that this is not a fluctuation? I will make a reservation in advance - I'm not a troll and not mocking. I just really don't understand. I am a physicist by training and a technocrat in the way of thinking. "God is always on the side of the big battalions" - this is the truth is unshakeable for me.

The average level of ladies in Russia, Japan and USA is growing with each new generation. In Russia bright juniors appear, literally, every year. This is Kamila Valieva's SP, Dasha Usacheva's FS and Sofya Samodelkina's FS These girls are 12 years old. I watched your national, no offense, but these girls would beat everyone in your championship. Beat easy and well deserved. But there are more pressing problems - Trusovа, Shcherbakovа, Kostornaya will be senior in this year. The Japanese have Rika Kihira, Alice Liu appears to America. Your best hope Cotop has never performed the program 7 + 2. How is Canada going to respond to the quad's and trixel's revolution in ladies skating? "Holy puberty", as we say?

Can you explain specifically and clearly how are you going to withstand the insane competition in ladies's skating? Without (1.Collect underpants/2.???/3.PROFIT!)-argument.

the TES minimums would have been nice but really, she has plenty of time to get them for next year's worlds... she couldn't be trying for this year as the deadline is passed... so I am guessing she is out there competing because she had all sorts of injuries in the fall and now that she is fit, she needs some outings. We will see how many spots Canada has next year : Larkyn may or may not be relevant at all.

I sound a bit harsh but it's just the sad reality. With Aurora, and soon Alison getting to seniors, Gabby, Alicia, and perhaps even Kaetlyn, girls will need all their triples to be competitive. I don't think Larkyn ever had a lutz... the flip will come back but her BV is really low.

Orlov said:

But what is the foundation of this success? What are your reasons for arguing that this is not a fluctuation? I will make a reservation in advance - I'm not a troll and not mocking. I just really don't understand. I am a physicist by training and a technocrat in the way of thinking. "God is always on the side of the big battalions" - this is the truth is unshakeable for me.

The average level of ladies in Russia, Japan and USA is growing with each new generation. In Russia bright juniors appear, literally, every year. This is Kamila Valieva's SP, Dasha Usacheva's FS and Sofya Samodelkina's FS These girls are 12 years old. I watched your national, no offense, but these girls would beat everyone in your championship. Beat easy and well deserved. But there are more pressing problems - Trusovа, Shcherbakovа, Kostornaya will be senior in this year. The Japanese have Rika Kihira, Alice Liu appears to America. Your best hope Cotop has never performed the program 7 + 2. How is Canada going to respond to the quad's and trixel's revolution in ladies skating? "Holy puberty", as we say?

Can you explain specifically and clearly how are you going to withstand the insane competition in ladies's skating? Without (1.Collect underpants/2.???/3.PROFIT!)-argument.

Click to expand...

Canadian skating is behind in ladies, a long of time after figures were over, skaters were still investing a lot of time in them... and that's why these ladies we have had all had great skating skills compared to some others. Ease and flow. Speed and height. However, the learning curve for such a figure skater is longer : even Kaetlyn Osmond learned the lutz and loop later in her teens. A decade ago, most skaters in Canadian ladies didn't even try 3-3... 20 years ago, you could win a medal at Nationals with only a couple of the triple jumps.

So my point is the following : Skate Canada gambled on getting great skating skills, basic technique for the girls. However, it has changed the program lately by giving bonuses to girls trying 3-3 and demanding the harder triples earlier on. The next gen criteria shows just that. The Canadian ladies are better... and yes... they are getting their jumps and their combos earlier and earlier. Quads and triple axels are not there yet.. but they will come... at one point Canada will catch up. There is no worry there. Look at the men? Canadian men have tons of quads ... and that's because there was always a natural depth in men and they kept pushing each other. So the issue here, compared to the other countries is that Canada doesn't have as much depth in ladies... one of the reasons is simply demographics.... USA has almost ten times the population of Canada... so right there, Canada starts far behind. A lot of the girls choose dance as well. This year's junior nationals in ice dance was one of the best competition all disciplines I have ever watched.... the Free dance was extremely exciting and of high quality.

To summarize, I disagree that Canadian ladies skating is not evolving. It's the opposite. Over is the time when a girl could win nationals without the lutz and flip. (Lacoste comes to mind). The difference is that the rise of technical content has just started, while in other countries it started right after figures ended.