Can anyone beat a clean Zagitova?

colormyworld240 · Apr 16, 2018

yume said:
Noooooooo, she would have get another chance. Kostner is so far ahead everyone that the tough competition in a country can't affect her
:disapp:

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic. But if you aren't, there is no way Kostner would get another chance. Liza, the reigning world champion, didn't even go to world's the year after. Or Yulia, who was olympic champion and a star, didn't go to worlds the year after. If you get beaten, there are no second chances for anyone. Just like if Alina, who won everything this season minus worlds, falls 2+ times at nationals, like Carolina has in multiple competitions, then she's not going to ever see another worlds. That's the nature of the competition.

colormyworld240 · Apr 16, 2018

4everchan said:
^^ tell that to Osmond who was left out the world team just a couple years ago.

Yes but eventually she was able to come back. Canada has one amazing skater; Kaetlyn, one good skater; Gabby. Then there is everyone else, who is nowhere close to their level, even if they fall once or twice, pop one or twice. Do you disagree? Just look at the world's team; Kaetlyn messed up in SP, Gabby didn't have great skates, still MILES ahead of the third girl, Larkyn, who didn't even make the FS. Even Larkyn, Alaine, etc.'s SB would not be able to beat Kaetlyn or Gabby's lowest scores of the season.

Russia has many skaters that are of top level, while there are only 3 spots. If Alina or Evgenia fall and pop, and the others, including juniors, didn't, they would be off the world's team. Do you disagree? Alina messed up and suddenly the gap between her and Sotskova wasn't that big anymore. If Evgenia were there, she would be close to their ranking as well. Add into the conversation Tsurskaya who didn't even get to compete; had she scored her SB, she would have been above both of them.

This isn't an insult to anyone, as Kaetlyn, Alina, and Evgenia you can say are somewhat on the same level at their best. It's the rest of the skaters in their countries that make the difference on their longevity. I'm not sure what there is to disagree about?

Koatterce · Apr 16, 2018

colormyworld240 said:
Can't tell if you're being sarcastic. But if you aren't, there is no way Kostner would get another chance. Liza, the reigning world champion, didn't even go to world's the year after. Or Yulia, who was olympic champion and a star, didn't go to worlds the year after. If you get beaten, there are no second chances for anyone. Just like if Alina, who won everything this season minus worlds, falls 2+ times at nationals, like Carolina has in multiple competitions, then she's not going to ever see another worlds. That's the nature of the competition.

If Alina (or anyone) bombs next season, then she won't get sent to worlds for obvious reasons. But if the season after, she goes back to winning everything, would she really not be sent to worlds again? The russian girls still have their GP events. If, lets say, Leonova won both her GPs and the GPF and then had the skate of her life at nationals and won, wouldn't she then be the best choice for that season to send to worlds, even if it was an anomaly for her?

Sam-Skwantch · Apr 16, 2018

Koatterce said:
If Alina (or anyone) bombs next season, then she won't get sent to worlds for obvious reasons. But if the season after, she goes back to winning everything, would she really not be sent to worlds again? The russian girls still have their GP events. If, lets say, Leonova won both her GPs and the GPF and then had the skate of her life at nationals and won, wouldn't she then be the best choice for that season to send to worlds, even if it was an anomaly for her?

Of course she would be sent again. Liza had a terrible season in 2013-14 in relation to the prior year and lost out her chance to go to the Olympics. We saw her not only return to Worlds but to win it in the following season. The point is you can’t go to Nationals and put a stinker out there and still be in the running for the worlds team like in many other federations. I think Masha pulled about as many shenanigans this year as she could without losing her spot. Now if Tat loves you...well....that’s different

yume · Apr 16, 2018

colormyworld240 said:
Can't tell if you're being sarcastic. But if you aren't, there is no way Kostner would get another chance. Liza, the reigning world champion, didn't even go to world's the year after. Or Yulia, who was olympic champion and a star, didn't go to worlds the year after. If you get beaten, there are no second chances for anyone. Just like if Alina, who won everything this season minus worlds, falls 2+ times at nationals, like Carolina has in multiple competitions, then she's not going to ever see another worlds. That's the nature of the competition.

It was sarcasm.

4everchan · Apr 16, 2018

colormyworld240 said:
Yes but eventually she was able to come back. Canada has one amazing skater; Kaetlyn, one good skater; Gabby. Then there is everyone else, who is nowhere close to their level, even if they fall once or twice, pop one or twice. Do you disagree? Just look at the world's team; Kaetlyn messed up in SP, Gabby didn't have great skates, still MILES ahead of the third girl, Larkyn, who didn't even make the FS. Even Larkyn, Alaine, etc.'s SB would not be able to beat Kaetlyn or Gabby's lowest scores of the season.

Russia has many skaters that are of top level, while there are only 3 spots. If Alina or Evgenia fall and pop, and the others, including juniors, didn't, they would be off the world's team. Do you disagree? Alina messed up and suddenly the gap between her and Sotskova wasn't that big anymore. If Evgenia were there, she would be close to their ranking as well. Add into the conversation Tsurskaya who didn't even get to compete; had she scored her SB, she would have been above both of them.

This isn't an insult to anyone, as Kaetlyn, Alina, and Evgenia you can say are somewhat on the same level at their best. It's the rest of the skaters in their countries that make the difference on their longevity. I'm not sure what there is to disagree about?

goodness me... yes i disagree.. because no matter what you are saying the facts are the facts... Osmond, a Canadian champion, previously top 10 in the world, comes back and finds two girls ahead of her... and there are only two spots.... she gives it her all, and fails to qualify for worlds...

A lot of skaters may have given up... she fought back... to find what? again.. only two spots... and guess what? our National Champion, Alaine, didn't qualify for worlds....

So other reality... less depth... fair enough... but also, less opportunities.

The reality is that our Canadian girls are fighting for their qualification just as well... and the proof is that once again, even with the 3 spots, ALaine didn't make it.... she had terrible skates.... and guess what, luckily for Larkyn, she skated well enough, just well enough to qualify.

So you may or may not agree with the facts, but the facts are here to show us that our Canadian champion is not always sure of making the team....

I really dislike this attitude that belittles the athletes achievements.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Apr 16, 2018

Spirals for Miles said:
Was Kaetlyn sick with the flu after the Olympics?
Did Kaetlyn HAVE to attend state functions and media conferences every day after the Olympics?

Zagitova was landing clean jumps in solid run throughs at Worlds. Although I suppose some will continue to try and diminish Osmond's World Championship by making excuses for other skaters underperforming.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Apr 16, 2018

Osmond4gold said:
As a Gold and Bronze medalists from the Olympic Games, indeed she did!!!

She even had small injury post OG, and yes to media and interviews daily, not only in Canada but also Icenetwork and others, and a trip to Toronto in between for JSOI practices with Jeff B and fittings.

Shhhh... don't mention Osmond's injuries.... as only the skaters certain people want to see on top are allowed to have injuries/issues that compromise their performances! :sarcasm:

CanadianSkaterGuy · Apr 16, 2018

chuckm said:
Zagitova did have one more competition than Osmond: Europeans, which came right after Russian Nationals and right before the Olympics. The US and Canadian Olympians didn't go to 4CC, although Miyahara did. Boyang Jin did 4CC too, and that may have contributed to his meltdown at Worlds.

But wouldn't she have had an issue at the Olympics?! Also as you said, Miyahara's season as a similar trajectory in terms of competitions but she still beat Zagitova at Worlds.

Why can't people accept that skaters simply have bad days instead of making excuses for skaters' poor performances in an attempt to trivialize others who skate well and earn their results and accolades?! :rolleye:

Scott512 · Apr 16, 2018

There is going to be a lot of pressure on Osmond next season to live up to this season.

Sam-Skwantch · Apr 16, 2018

Scott512 said:
There is going to be a lot of pressure on Osmond next season to live up to this season.

They said the same thing after her Silver at WC last year :dance2:

Scott512 · Apr 16, 2018

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Zagitova was landing clean jumps in solid run throughs at Worlds. Although I suppose some will continue to try and diminish Osmond's World Championship by making excuses for other skaters underperforming.

Osmond skated well at Worlds and then the leaders Zagitova and Kostner collapsed but thats figure skating.

Scott512 · Apr 16, 2018

Sam-Skwantch said:
They said the same thing after her Silver at WC last year :dance2:

Olympic bronze and World gold is much bigger than world silver. Thus more pressure. I think she will be good with it.

4everchan · Apr 16, 2018

Scott512 said:
Olympic bronze and World gold is much bigger than world silver. Thus more pressure. I think she will be good with it.

this is Kaetlyn's answer : "i don't care, i love it"

chuckm · Apr 16, 2018

For Satoko, her Nationals win was her major test before the Olympics, so she didn't push herself at 4CC (she was 3rd behind Sakamoto and Mihara)---it was just a warmup for her.

Scott512 · Apr 16, 2018

4everchan said:
this is Kaetlyn's answer : "i don't care, i love it"

Thats the attitude to have.

colormyworld240 · Apr 17, 2018

4everchan said:
goodness me... yes i disagree.. because no matter what you are saying the facts are the facts... Osmond, a Canadian champion, previously top 10 in the world, comes back and finds two girls ahead of her... and there are only two spots.... she gives it her all, and fails to qualify for worlds...

A lot of skaters may have given up... she fought back... to find what? again.. only two spots... and guess what? our National Champion, Alaine, didn't qualify for worlds....

So other reality... less depth... fair enough... but also, less opportunities.

The reality is that our Canadian girls are fighting for their qualification just as well... and the proof is that once again, even with the 3 spots, ALaine didn't make it.... she had terrible skates.... and guess what, luckily for Larkyn, she skated well enough, just well enough to qualify.

So you may or may not agree with the facts, but the facts are here to show us that our Canadian champion is not always sure of making the team....

I really dislike this attitude that belittles the athletes achievements.

I don't see how anyone is belittling anyones achievements, though. I'm not saying Kaetlyn didn't deserve world champion, nor is she a worse skater than Alina and Zhenya. I don't think you can compare competing against Larkyn/Alaine for a spot to competing with Radionova/Sotskova/Tsurskaya and soon Kostornaia/Trusova. I'm talking about the gap. I don't see how you can possibly disagree with the fact that Kaetlyn getting on world's team. I don't see how you can't see that Larkyn is MUCH less competition than Russian 4/5/6, even though the numbers are obvious.

colormyworld240 · Apr 17, 2018

Sam-Skwantch said:
Of course she would be sent again. Liza had a terrible season in 2013-14 in relation to the prior year and lost out her chance to go to the Olympics. We saw her not only return to Worlds but to win it in the following season. The point is you can’t go to Nationals and put a stinker out there and still be in the running for the worlds team like in many other federations. I think Masha pulled about as many shenanigans this year as she could without losing her spot. Now if Tat loves you...well....that’s different

But the thing is it's not really having an awful season and coming back to it; it's just even if you come back to your top shape others are better. For example, Radionova isn't really that much worse than when she won nationals, but she's never going to go to Euros or World's again, unless all the other top skaters are injured. If she were skating for any other country, she'd have a shot at the worlds team. Masha, that's a different story, she's had the Buyanova push for a while, and between her and Elena, she is the better choice. In Russia, TAT push trumps almost everything ie. Konstantinova so many times, and poor Gubanova. Connections > talent unless you're Eteri's girl, but even then.. Konstantinova. And then if you're not a wonder, and you don't have connections, then you'll never be in big comps, story of so many talented unknowns.

colormyworld240 · Apr 17, 2018

Koatterce said:
If Alina (or anyone) bombs next season, then she won't get sent to worlds for obvious reasons. But if the season after, she goes back to winning everything, would she really not be sent to worlds again? The russian girls still have their GP events. If, lets say, Leonova won both her GPs and the GPF and then had the skate of her life at nationals and won, wouldn't she then be the best choice for that season to send to worlds, even if it was an anomaly for her?

Yeah, if she goes back to winning again. But here will be many Russian girls who will be better than her by then. There already are. Even Liza when she got her 3A back earlier this season it was already too late she was overtaken by many. Not a good situation to develop skaters, but it is what it is. Some of them so try to switch countries, but I imagine that is difficult.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Apr 17, 2018

chuckm said:
For Satoko, her Nationals win was her major test before the Olympics, so she didn't push herself at 4CC (she was 3rd behind Sakamoto and Mihara)---it was just a warmup for her.

From what I recall Satoko was quite disappointed by 4CC. But better to do poorly there than Worlds/Olympics.

It's kinda like Osmond and Daleman at 2017 4CC, where they were 4th and 2nd behind Mihara, before beating her and everyone else except Medvedeva at Worlds.

Can anyone beat a clean Zagitova?

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