Art in Artistry | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Art in Artistry

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Just to refresh you how ISU define these three in the more easily accessible language:

Performance is the physical and emotional involvement of the skater/couple as they deliver the intent of the music and composition (e.g. carriage, style, personality, variety, contrasts, projection).

Composition is an intentionally developed and/or original arrangement of all types of movements according to the principles of musical phrase, space, pattern, and structure (e.g. idea, concept, unity, pattern, phrasing, originality, design)

Interpretation of the Music /Timing (for Ice Dance) it is the personal, creative, and genuine translation of the rhythm, character and content of music to movement on ice.

In what way these three components can be construed anything but a clear intention to reward artistry as a prime motive?

A lot depends on how you define "artistry" or "artistic." It seems that sometimes the word gets used to mean not much more than "visually pleasing" which to my mind is not the same thing.

To me, artistry implies intention. Therefore the Composition component seems to be the most connected to artistry in my mind, but the intention may belong more to the coach or choreographer than the skaters themselves.

For example, the "Carriage & Clarity of movement" criterion under Performance seems to me to be primarily about technical form. It may be achieved with intention, or it may just be a by-product of good technique. Same for "Spatial awareness between partners." And poor execution of those criteria is more likely a result of weaker technique than weaker intention. The other Performance criteria are more about the skater's intentional performance.

The first criterion under Interpretation is "Movement and steps in time to the music (Timing)." Again, it is possible to achieve that mechanically without any additional artistic intention as defined in the other Interpretation criteria. It is also possible to have all the interpretive intention in the world but to fail at skating in time to the music because of technical deficiencies that prevent the skater from controlling the rhythm of the moves.

So sometimes skaters try to be artistic but resulting performance deservedly scores low on some of these components.

Other times skaters just go out and skate well (cleanly and confidently) to whatever they were given to skate to and as a result earn high scores for Performance without any intention to be "artistic."
 

Anna K.

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Country
Latvia
I don't think PE, IN and CO are there because of intension of FS to reward artistry (as a prime motive). You can score good PE,IN and CO score without displaying a clear artistic vision (if you can jump good, skate big, fast, precise with your whole body and to the music rhythm and make a contact with the audience)... And vice versa... What is artistic i think is skaters intention to skate for the audience, to perform, to let someone see his/her individual something...

I like this line, I think you nailed it here.

And I like this entire post:

A lot depends on how you define "artistry" or "artistic." It seems that sometimes the word gets used to mean not much more than "visually pleasing" which to my mind is not the same thing.

To me, artistry implies intention. Therefore the Composition component seems to be the most connected to artistry in my mind, but the intention may belong more to the coach or choreographer than the skaters themselves.

For example, the "Carriage & Clarity of movement" criterion under Performance seems to me to be primarily about technical form. It may be achieved with intention, or it may just be a by-product of good technique. Same for "Spatial awareness between partners." And poor execution of those criteria is more likely a result of weaker technique than weaker intention. The other Performance criteria are more about the skater's intentional performance.

The first criterion under Interpretation is "Movement and steps in time to the music (Timing)." Again, it is possible to achieve that mechanically without any additional artistic intention as defined in the other Interpretation criteria. It is also possible to have all the interpretive intention in the world but to fail at skating in time to the music because of technical deficiencies that prevent the skater from controlling the rhythm of the moves.

So sometimes skaters try to be artistic but resulting performance deservedly scores low on some of these components.

Other times skaters just go out and skate well (cleanly and confidently) to whatever they were given to skate to and as a result earn high scores for Performance without any intention to be "artistic."

To which I'd like to add, even though figure skating as such is an art, it's sport and only a sport after the competition starts. That's why judges are not obliged to reward skaters for being artists. Artistic personalities are not compatible, technical skills are. Or rather, we can say that judges are rewarding their artistic skills (which would be skills that are meant to create the art of figure skating). I would say that the purpose of figure skating as a sport is to give the public both artistic performances and adrenaline from the competition. Which sometimes doesn't happen, sometimes does.
 

Izabela

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 1, 2018
I’m not disputing that PE, CO, and IN require a mastering technique as intended by ISU. But looking at the gradation of how ISU define each category, there’s an intention on their part to reward artistry. Yes, a skater can showcase “carriage and clarity of movement” without the intent of being artistic but that’s not entirely the criterion under Performance. And this is why we have the scoring system from 0-10 for judges, which IMO (and this is really the point of my post) is that ultimately, these three were included to reward artistry. Again, this seems not what’s happening nowadays with the way PCS are being handed to skaters, but I think during the drafting of CoP, it was their intention.
 

Baron Vladimir

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
^^^
How u came to the conclusion their intention was to reward 'artistry' through those marks? From my reading of the ISU recomendatitions of the judging i dont see it that way. There is no separate mark here for 'articism'. 'Articism' for example can be also rewarded in TES through GOE (variety/originality of the element) and TR can be very 'artistic' mark (see Kostner for example). And you can score higher on every mark by both ways - through tech mastery and artistic performance. But articism per se doesnt have own mark anymore because logically its based on too much subjectivity. Intention of the scores are not to say who is more artistic, because you and me for example are enjoying in different forms of art and to decide which 'artistic' is mathematically better can diminish art as a philosophical concept.
 

fenway3

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
I'm not sure amateur skating is really the best medium for transmitting art (even though it can still be done obviously). Pro skating came closer to that goal, I think.

Speaking in general terms, I think art is about being genuine and expressing something inside you that's "bursting" to come out.

A few years ago, singer Aimee Mann gave an interview in which she offered what I think are some perceptive ideas about art:

When you're younger a lot of your . . . art or music or whatever is more about just trying to look like you're an artist . . . trying to look like you're a certain thing or trying to . . . just . . . fit in. . . .

Older artists kind of don't care about that as much. . . . That's liberating and feels more like what true art should be about. . . .

When I first started writing songs, all I wanted to do was a write a song that sounded like another song so that it sounded like . . . . a legitimate thing. Not necessarily . . . a song that expresses anything I'm actually thinking . . . or feeling.

Here's what I'm mostly thinking or feeling in my early 20s: "I-I hope I fit in." . . . And that's not that interesting. . . . "I hope people don't think I'm a fraud. . . . I want to be liked." . . . That seems kind of anti-art, really. . . .

Anyone who cares less about wanting to be cool, I think, is more interesting.
 

Baron Vladimir

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
I think Kolyada, and Tarasova and Morozov, brought Kitsch through their Free Skates this year.

Yes, and a lot more of them, especially in ice dance programmes. You can see kitsch elements tho in almost every skating programme - through costuming and make up, and literal translation of music and characters. For example Wakabas hand gun geasture in her Bond programme is very kitch, like Ashley's wink and Kaori and Evgenia playing with rope movements. Imitating Chaplin, dolls or birds is often kitsch/kemp. It can make competitions funnier and less-boring :biggrin:
 
Top