2018-19 U.S. Men’s figure skating

I’m the biggest one on the Andrew T. admirer train .... choo-choo! because he deserves it for his wonderful performance chops. I don’t use the word “hype” because that sounds like he doesn’t deserve the praise and he does:agree:

other than my friend and debating partner @TontoK, I want to know who else “hypes” Andrew, so we can get together and commune

Frankly, I see Camden “hyped” a lot more than Andrew, and given the seasons they had last year, I completely understand: Camden grew into a skater with real flow and power, which I never would have guessed from his previous seasons, whereas Andrew lost jumps he had and just never seemed to gel, again, the complete opposite of previous seasons.

If Camden can keep that up on the Junior circuit for another season (and I hope he can) he will be one to watch. And if Andrew regains his form of previous seasons, he will be one to watch too.

Vincent will be a celebrity judge tomorrow at the Aerial Challenge. From his tweet:
I'm not much of a "celebrity judge", but nontheless I can't wait to be on the panel for this exciting event! See you all at the @bworldarena tomorrow


From TomZ's tweet: So proud @govincentzhou the first skater to land a quadruple lutz @Olympics will be one of the celebrity judges tomorrow @AerialChallenge. Use http://proeventphoto.com/channel-three/ at 12:15 pm MST for the freestream

From Aerial Challenge tweet: Josh Farris, Todd Eldredge and Scott Davis will join Vincent.

This is better than I dreamed - I had secretly hoped for a Max cameo as a celeb judge but to see Joshua again...!!!!!!!!!! Listen to Josh, little mites, because his jumps were textbook perfect.

So last night at the Peggy Fleming Trophy I got to see quite a few of our guys. First and most important, I very briefly saw Josh Farris there and he looks wonderful - happy, healthy, and very good looking.

Second: Tim Dolensky was a very deserving winner, and if he keeps going the way he has started, I could see him challenging for a spot on the World Team this year depending on where he is with the “big” jumps and how everyone else does. It was a joy to watch him here - he was very prepared to compete and really knew his program, and looked more in mid-season than pre-season form. I thought each element and movement was done with clear intention, which gave a confidence and cohesiveness to his program that was lacking in some others. I liked the choreography - he was always moving in beautiful ways but the program didn’t feel overstuffed. He’s very musical, too. His spins were great - probably second only to Jason’s. Honestly they might be as good as Jason’s (though different) but you’ll never get me to admit that. The headless spin is pretty awesome live. His jumps looked very good from what I saw.

This competition was interesting because it highlighted how many good male skaters we have. It didn’t particularly showcase jumps, and some of the people I most enjoyed may not be competitive on the GP, much less at a World level. But there was much worth watching. Tim, Andrew, Jordan Moeller, and Ben Jalovick all have really nice flow over the ice, good ice coverage, good edges, and good flexibility. They’re all pretty fast; Andrew is maybe the fastest by a hair. I really liked Ben’s program and he performed really well. He was probably the biggest surprise for me because although he’s gone to Nats a couple of times, he isn’t really a “known” skater. He only did doubles here; it may simply be that it’s hard for him to do bigger jumps consistently under pressure. But he has great presence and he really drew me in. I hope Jordan gets good programs this season - I didn’t think this one did him justice. He’s got a bit of Jeremy Abbott in him, and I do wish he could break through. Not sure if money is an issue as to programs and training time for him and Ben. Andrew showed a lot of potential- it was the first time I’ve seen him live - but I think he’s capable of much more than what we saw here. It looked like it was still early season for him. I’ll be interested to see how he progresses. He’s another skater who is very musical.

As to Camden: first, having seen both him and Max live, mrrice, IMO they are not at all similar skaters. Max is much faster and skates much “bigger” for lack of a better word. Camden’s skating is very nice but was on a bit of a smaller scale than the other senior guys I saw last night. He is graceful and uses his upper body nicely, and most of his jumps looked solid, but he doesn’t have as much speed, flow, or presence yet as someone like Tim. It may be that the program is still new.

Overall, I really enjoyed the competition. It’s too bad that neither Jason nor Alexander Johnson were there, because it would have been quite interesting to see them go head to head with Tim. I guess we’ll just have to wait until later in the season for that, though.

Thanks for the report, Tavi!

Having seen Timmy D.’s headless scratch spin last year, from less than 50 feet away, it is amazing.:yes: I didn’t realize it would blur in real life now that I’ve seen both, I would pick Jason for the catchfoot and other spins, but Timmy D. for the scratch spins.

And Tim has always had the goods, he just never gets it together at Nats Last year, he won Philly International, over Camden (TBH, Camden was not particularly impressive in that comp), Alexei, Max, the many quads of Yaroslav Paniot, he slayed. And that, unfortunately, ended up being his best comp. So I hope this is not another case of impress them early, and then.....

I so love the idea of an artistic comp, I hope it continues. And fingers crossed that Jason competes next year.

Emmanuel Savary FS from Broadmoor Open, where he won the silver medal :


The video is fuzzy, but I'm pretty sure that he is in the Kiss and Cry with Tom Z and Becky Calvin … which I take as final confirmation that they now are Emmanuel's coaches.

Among men's entries, Aerial Challenge has been promoting Emmanuel, Camden, and Torgashev. I hope that Jordan (last year's Aerial Challenge bronze medalist) will be promoted too.

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Very exciting that Josh :luv17: will be judging Aerial Challenge. And with Vincent. #TakeOnMe

… All four ["celebrity" judges] have used the Broadmoor World Arena as their training base. Zhou, Farris and Eldredge all won World Junior Championships while training there, too.
Aerial Challenge once again will be a fundraiser for Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation.
And our beloved Max's presence lives on in the moving video within the epic Aerial Challenge logo on the JDRF pages.

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I love Camden, I love Max, and I believe that their friendship and mutual admiration society go way back to Scottsdale.

But I do not like the idea of any skater being described -- even if intended in a positive way -- as "XYZ Jr."

I love Torgashev too. IMO, both Camden and Andrew get ample doses of well-deserved support on GS.

Go USA!!!! Looking good. With Nathan as world champion, Vincent on the verge of medallling or at least potentially and Jason's revitalization not to mention Andrew and Alex et al ready to take on the big boys it is looking good for the US - other than the Japanese men. The next quadrennieal is looking good for the US not only in men but overall - doesn't hurt that arch rival Canada is heading downwards in every event. No medal threat in pairs. Their top lady is sitting out and their second lady appears to not have recovered from injury well; the Americans top two or three teams are better than Canada's current no. 1 without Weaver and Poje. Now can they beat the Russians overall. Yep future is looking bright men and overall.

So per Sylvia's compiled results (thought not complete):

Camden Pulkinen won the overall competition with a score of 206.00 (77.87/128.13),
Emmanuel Savary was second , but we only have his SP score (76.77)
Andrew Torgeshev was third, his SP score was 71.18.
Timothy Dolensky was fourth but won the FS with a score of 131.00. Timothy also won the the Peggy Fleming Trophy artistic competition.

Congrats to Tomoki Hiwatashi for winning the Aerial Challenge with a pair of 4Ts!

It feels like the 2018-2019 season has begun! And that it's going to be a major battle!

Mrs. P said:

So per Sylvia's compiled results (thought not complete):

Camden Pulkinen won the overall competition with a score of 206.00 (77.87/128.13),
Emmanuel Savary was second , but we only have his SP score (76.77)
Andrew Torgeshev was third, his SP score was 71.18.
Timothy Dolensky was fourth but won the FS with a score of 131.00. Timothy also won the the Peggy Fleming Trophy artistic competition.

Congrats to Tomoki Hiwatashi for winning the Aerial Challenge with a pair of 4Ts!

It feels like the 2018-2019 season has begun! And that it's going to be a major battle!

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This is very exciting news. I think Nathan really lit a fire under the US Men and I have a feeling we're going to have a great year. With the Ladies looking good as well, I sure would like to have a ticket to Worlds. I think our skaters are going to make some noise.

Mrs. P said:

So per Sylvia's compiled results (thought not complete):

Camden Pulkinen won the overall competition with a score of 206.00 (77.87/128.13),
Emmanuel Savary was second , but we only have his SP score (76.77)
Andrew Torgeshev was third, his SP score was 71.18.
Timothy Dolensky was fourth but won the FS with a score of 131.00. Timothy also won the the Peggy Fleming Trophy artistic competition.

Congrats to Tomoki Hiwatashi for winning the Aerial Challenge with a pair of 4Ts!

It feels like the 2018-2019 season has begun! And that it's going to be a major battle!

Click to expand...

Since this was a test run for the revised scoring system, I really wish they’d publish full protocols. It would be interesting to see how much the lower TES / overall scores resulted from lower BV, one less jump, and GOE. I have to remind myself that it’s not just early season, it’s that these scores aren’t really comparable to the scores we’ve seen in the past few years.

Did you guys notice any changes in the programs because of the rule changes, or is it too soon to tell?

Tavi... said:

Did you guys notice any changes in the programs because of the rule changes, or is it too soon to tell?

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I just noticed that Camden has moved his triple axel to the back of his SP. He might have been planning to do so anyway, but with only one bonus jump counting in the short, it makes sense to get the highest possible bang for his toughest jump. (Also makes sense for him to move the combo to the front when he's fresh, since he was struggling to rotate both triples last season).

Mrs. P said:

So per Sylvia's compiled results (thought not complete):

Camden Pulkinen won the overall competition with a score of 206.00 (77.87/128.13),
Emmanuel Savary was second , but we only have his SP score (76.77)
Andrew Torgeshev was third, his SP score was 71.18.
Timothy Dolensky was fourth but won the FS with a score of 131.00. Timothy also won the the Peggy Fleming Trophy artistic competition.

Congrats to Tomoki Hiwatashi for winning the Aerial Challenge with a pair of 4Ts!

It feels like the 2018-2019 season has begun! And that it's going to be a major battle!

Click to expand...

Adding some bits to the overall picture:


Congratulations to all.

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ETA:

Camden and Max are like the complete opposite..............

shine said:

Camden and Max are like the complete opposite..............

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No they're not. Watch Camden's lower body, he and Max have very similar blade work and edge quality. Camden has a better upper body which I imagine comes from dance training. Have a look at Max's 2016 Nationals performances, I think you'll see it.

mrrice said:

No they're not. Watch Camden's lower body, he and Max have very similar blade work and edge quality. Camden has a better upper body which I imagine comes from dance training. Have a look at Max's 2016 Nationals performances, I think you'll see it.

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Camden's movement and so on is more like that of Josh Farris than Max Aaron. JMHO!

U.S. Men in the GP Series:

Skate America: Nathan Chen, Vincent Zhou, TBD
Skate Canada: Jason Brown
Grand Prix Finland: Alexei Krasnozhon
NHK Trophy: Alexander Johnson, Vincent Zhou
Rostelecom Cup: Alexei Krasnozhon
Internationaux de France: Jason Brown, Nathan Chen

So we have Nathan, Vincent, Jason and Alexei with two spots. Alexander Johnson has 1. That sounds about right since the those four were in the top 24 on the SB list and Alexander Johnson was just outside it (he may have been high enough on the WR). Max Aaron retired, otherwise he would have received two.

TBD Spot candidates I'm guessing = Alexander Johnson (for his 2nd spot), Timothy Dolensky and Camden Pulkinen.

So, no Ross, not surprising, but has he definitively retired? I missed that. And no Grant, who definitely said he was retiring this year *last* summer, and then other reports implied he might be walking it back?

Fingers crossed for Timmy D. for a TBA

I'll probably be skewered for this but oh well:

My initial thought on seeing that list is that it's quite weak. Last season the US had five GP medallists (Max, Adam, Jason, Nathan, and Ross) including two event winners (Max and Nathan) and four of whom (Max, Adam, Jason and Nathan) actually medalled during that series. This season they have two medallists (Jason and Nathan). Vincent may move into that category, if he gets some friendly panels and skates better than last GP season. Krasnozhon is SB32 and Johnson is SB44. They're not likely to medal barring weird unforeseen circumstances.

I suppose weak is not the right word. More...top-heavy. Less depth than previous seasons. For now, anyway. The absence of Max and Adam appears to have opened up a bit of a hole, and those fresh from juniors aren't quite ready yet to fill it.

I agree the depth's been hit a bit, but I think Alex K. has a chance to make a huge splash, if not sneak in for bronze. SB 32 isn't terrible especially since we're talking junior-level scores. I'd argue that he has best 3A out of the U.S. men currently competiting.

I think Vincent is capable of winning a GP medal and actually I'd be shocked if he couldn't pull it off at SkAm (though Bychenko and Voronov are GP medalists).

karne said:

I'll probably be skewered for this but oh well:

My initial thought on seeing that list is that it's quite weak. Last season the US had five GP medallists (Max, Adam, Jason, Nathan, and Ross) including two event winners (Max and Nathan) and four of whom (Max, Adam, Jason and Nathan) actually medalled during that series. This season they have two medallists (Jason and Nathan). Vincent may move into that category, if he gets some friendly panels and skates better than last GP season. Krasnozhon is SB32 and Johnson is SB44. They're not likely to medal barring weird unforeseen circumstances.

I suppose weak is not the right word. More...top-heavy. Less depth than previous seasons. For now, anyway. The absence of Max and Adam appears to have opened up a bit of a hole, and those fresh from juniors aren't quite ready yet to fill it.

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Good assessment. We are are in a transitional time but it is good to come at the start of the quad. We kinda have an upcoming brat pack/rat pack (we REALLY need a nickname for them) in Aleksei Krasnozhon, Tomoki Hiwatashi, Andrew Torgashev and Camden Pulkinen all doing really well and and nipping at one another's heals. It is just that Aleksei is only the first to move on to the senior leagues. I suspect the rest will have a cutthroat JGP and we may see a few more names enter that club. Next season is going to be a brutal fight for SA spots.