Proposals to ISU Congress 2018-2019 Season | Golden Skate

Proposals to ISU Congress 2018-2019 Season

Danny T

Medalist
Joined
Mar 21, 2018
So here is a fresh 135-page list of proposals that will be discussed in ISU Congress this June. Proposals for Figure Skating starts at page 83.

Some interesting proposals so far for singles:

- Backloading bonus only allowed for max 4 jumps in LP, 1-2 jumps in SP (Netherlands & Japan)

- Bonus for skaters attempting all 6 types of triple/quad jump (Japan)

- Allow men to wear tights :laugh2:

- Separate judging panel for GOE and PCS (quite a few countries) - reason given: there is a larger scale of value now, so judges need to take time to evaluate correctly

- No compulsory deduction for falls, falls are interruption and should be reflected in PCS

- Elimination of the compulsory steps before solo jumps in SP (tech committee) - reason given: already counted in GOE so it's "controversial" to count steps as a requirement :confused:

- No repetition of any type of quad jump (tech comm) - reason given: "variety" & "giving credit to skaters that can perform all types of quad jumps"

Discuss away ~ :dance:
 
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
Some interesting proposals so far for singles:

- Backloading bonus only allowed for max 4 jumps in LP, 1-2 jumps in SP (Netherlands & Japan)

- Bonus for skaters attempting all 6 types of triple/quad jump (Japan)

- Allow men to wear tights :laugh2:

- Separate judging panel for GOE and PCS (quite a few countries) - reason given: there is a larger scale of value now, so judges need to take time to evaluate correctly

- No compulsory deduction for falls, falls are interruption and should be reflected in PCS

- Elimination of the compulsory steps before solo jumps in SP (tech committee) - reason given: already counted in GOE so it's "controversial" to count steps as a requirement :confused:

- No repetition of any type of quad jump (tech comm) - reason given: "variety" & "giving credit to skaters that can perform all types of quad jumps"
- Meh, but it better not be a hard limit, preventing IN properly.
- The Yuzuru rule. Or the Nathan rule? Who is even attempting/practising all 6 quads? Why is JPN proposing this? It better not pass, though. No killing yourself over 4As.
- Meh
- !!! Perfect!!! :O
- Hmmm. I'd be fine with it if they put forward which part of PCS, and how much. No "this skater is from Brazil, so -1 from each, this one's from the US, so -0.25 from PE".
- No, thanks. Does it also mean that steps before all jumps are to be expected? Even the big quads? No unnecessary transitions to get GOE. Too vague.
- Meh, fine. And credit for "more", because
No killing yourself over 4As
 

Spirals for Miles

Anna Shcherbakova is my World Champion
Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
So here is a fresh 135-page list of proposals that will be discussed in ISU Congress this June. Proposals for Figure Skating starts at page 83.

Some interesting proposals so far for singles:

- Backloading bonus only allowed for max 4 jumps in LP, 1-2 jumps in SP (Netherlands & Japan)

- Bonus for skaters attempting all 6 types of triple/quad jump (Japan)

- Allow men to wear tights :laugh2:

- Separate judging panel for GOE and PCS (quite a few countries) - reason given: there is a larger scale of value now, so judges need to take time to evaluate correctly

- No compulsory deduction for falls, falls are interruption and should be reflected in PCS

- Elimination of the compulsory steps before solo jumps in SP (tech committee) - reason given: already counted in GOE so it's "controversial" to count steps as a requirement :confused:

- No repetition of any type of quad jump (tech comm) - reason given: "variety" & "giving credit to skaters that can perform all types of quad jumps"

Discuss away ~ :dance:

- Nope, don't like
- We're going to see a lot of quad axel attempts unless it's like a mix (these 3 quads + the other 3 triples)
- I like. Why not?
- I do like this
- No, the PCS won't be affected. I wish it was just a flat-out -2 for each (not what happened to Boyang, Alina, etc.)
- No, if you can't do it without the steps, don't do it
- No, this is too many rules. What happened to keeping the free program free?
 

Andrea82

Medalist
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
The Japanese proposal on the bonus for those doing all types of jumps include "and/or". So I think no need of 4A. The likes of Rippon and Rizzo would have got that proposed bonus in PyeongChang.
The wording is: In the Free Skating of the single skating additional bonus points will be given to skaters succeeded six different type of clean triple and/or quadruple jumps in the program

The Technical Committees on the men wearing tights:

Reason: It is not appropriate to single out the word tights. Many men’s trousers are tight fitting for safety reasons.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Thanks for the update. Very interesting list of proposals!

- Backloading bonus only allowed for max 4 jumps in LP, 1-2 jumps in SP (Netherlands & Japan) I guess I am kind of in favor of this. No biggie. though. Will not have much affect on programs overall, I think.

- Bonus for skaters attempting all 6 types of triple/quad jump (Japan) Will ladies have to do a truple Axel to get this bonus?

- Allow men to wear tights :laugh2: I guess they want to allow men to do more ballet-inspired programs. I am not especially against it.

- Separate judging panel for GOE and PCS (quite a few countries) - reason given: there is a larger scale of value now, so judges need to take time to evaluate correctly. I am slightly opposed. Cost might be a factor, for one thing. Plus, I think there is value in having each judge make different kind of evaluations.

- No compulsory deduction for falls, falls are interruption and should be reflected in PCS No opinion. A one or two-point deduction for falls is not much anyway. Judges might have different opinions about how much a fall disrupts a program. This could be either good or bad.

- Elimination of the compulsory steps before solo jumps in SP (tech committee) - reason given: already counted in GOE so it's "controversial" to count steps as a requirement :confused: I am against this proposal. The SP is supposed to be the "technical" program with more rigid requirements than in the Free Skate. A jump out of steps seems like a reasonable thing to require. On the other hand, at present a lot of skaters do the bare minimum and the judges let them get away with it anyway.

- No repetition of any type of quad jump (tech comm) - reason given: "variety" & "giving credit to skaters that can perform all types of quad jumps" I think I am sort of in favor (?) But then why wouldn't the same reasoning apply to repeated triple jumps?

In summary, I guess i don't have a strong opinion one way or the other about the proposals.
 
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Danny T

Medalist
Joined
Mar 21, 2018
- Meh, but it better not be a hard limit, preventing IN properly.
- The Yuzuru rule. Or the Nathan rule? Who is even attempting/practising all 6 quads? Why is JPN proposing this? It better not pass, though. No killing yourself over 4As.

- For the first one, I think they meant skaters can put as many jumps in the second half as they want, but only the last three in LP, one in SP (Japan) and four in LP, two in SP (others) may have the 1.1 bonus

- It's a mix, I think. And I missed the keyword 'clean' in speed reading :laugh2:

- We're going to see a lot of quad axel attempts unless it's like a mix (these 3 quads + the other 3 triples)

As quoted, "In the Free Skating of the single skating additional bonus points will be given to skaters succeeded six different types of clean triple and/or quadruple jumps in the program". So I think it's a mix.
 
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
- Separate judging panel for GOE and PCS (quite a few countries) - reason given: there is a larger scale of value now, so judges need to take time to evaluate correctly. I am slightly opposed. Cost might be a factor, for one thing. Plus, I think there is value in having each make different kind of evaluations.
Judges are volunteers, though, right? And right now, quads = PCS.
 

Andrea82

Medalist
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
- For the first one, I think they meant skaters can put as many jumps in the second half as they want, but only the last three in LP, one in SP (Japan) and four in LP, two in SP (others) may have the 1.1 bonus

- It's a mix, I think. And I missed the keyword 'clean' in speed reading :laugh2:



As quoted, "In the Free Skating of the single skating additional bonus points will be given to skaters succeeded six different type
of clean triple and/or quadruple jumps in the program". So I think it's a mix.

I wonder what Japan Fed means as clean. No fall or no negative GOE?
 

Xen

Rinkside
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
- No compulsory deduction for falls, falls are interruption and should be reflected in PCS

- Elimination of the compulsory steps before solo jumps in SP (tech committee) - reason given: already counted in GOE so it's "controversial" to count steps as a requirement :confused:

- No repetition of any type of quad jump (tech comm) - reason given: "variety" & "giving credit to skaters that can perform all types of quad jumps"

I love the idea of these rules when combined-it finally takes figure skating to its logical conclusion.

You get extra points for getting all your quads, in fact, it's probably necessary to have a giant arsenal of quads to place well, with 3-4 types of quads minimum. Then it's perfectly fine if you fall, since there is no mandatory deduction and possibly just negative GOE plus some reduction in PCS (how much point deduction are we looking at, just a range again).

So what's preventing this from being a giant TES battle? I thought ISU wanted a balance between PCS and TES, so far the proposals look like outright encouragement to use quads as an advantage, and a more blatant one than before. Now, you might as well learn quads in reverse order of difficulty (4A and 4Lz downwards) to maximize your scoring potential.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Judges are volunteers, though, right? And right now, quads = PCS.

Judges are volunteers, but that doesn't mean that they lack competence. My concern is more that the judges who only do GOE will feel like they have too little to do.

Yeah, quads = PCS. This should be addressed.
 
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
Judges are volunteers, but that doesn't mean that they lack competence. My concern is more that the judges who only do GOE will feel like they have too little to do.
Oh, I meant it in the sense of "there's no cost there". And currently GOE is judged not really by the rules. Maybe this will guarantee rules being followed. But then, I also feel that the GOE rules need to be revamped.
 
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
I love the idea of these rules when combined-it finally takes figure skating to its logical conclusion.

You get extra points for getting all your quads, in fact, it's probably necessary to have a giant arsenal of quads to place well, with 3-4 types of quads minimum. Then it's perfectly fine if you fall, since there is no mandatory deduction and possibly just negative GOE plus some reduction in PCS (how much point deduction are we looking at, just a range again).

So what's preventing this from being a giant TES battle? I thought ISU wanted a balance between PCS and TES, so far the proposals look like outright encouragement to use quads as an advantage, and a more blatant one than before. Now, you might as well learn quads in reverse order of difficulty (4A and 4Lz downwards) to maximize your scoring potential.

Quads versus the GOE+PCS panels might help. I think there might be a lot of revamp on how falls are dealt with in GOE, too. I think it's a little early to say this. The GOE proposals made it look like quality would be valued a little more, so let's wait.

I don't think there should be a bonus for all quads at all, but for having a mix of all jumps, sure why not. It will encourage skaters mastering all technique. And hopefully, no bonus for flutzers/lippers. (The fed politicking over skaters doing that will be fun.)

Is there a proposal for having, IDK, maybe 10 extra cameras for the tech calls there somewhere?
 

Shayuki

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Lack of quad repetition is bad for ladies, potentially. It already requires combos to repeat quads, which is arguably more difficult than performing different ones... In addition, I don't think it makes very much sense to be able to repeat 3A but not quads.

All in all, several odd rules here. I hope they just go with the GOE / PCS having different panels.
 

Danny T

Medalist
Joined
Mar 21, 2018
Heh, since I got a day off here are some more:

- Netherlands also proposed re-factoring PCS for men: 1.2 in SP, 2.4 in LP

- Again, Netherlands, proposing we get rid of the CDs and make skaters upload their music digitally, as well as bring along USB sticks in case of emergency :yahoo: (finally, some good proposal)

- Austria proposes separate World Standings for Seniors and Juniors

- ISU Council proposes a fixed and larger number of entries for Worlds: 42 for Singles, 28 for Pairs, 35 for Ice Dance. If there are not enough entries with minimum TES, the unqualified skaters are allowed to add TES from different competitions

- Netherlands think judges should decide which constitutes a fall and deduct from PCS, not the technical panel

- Again, Netherlands, proposes that the criteria for assessing judges['s credibility, i guess?] includes 'national bias', since apparently this was taken out at some point

- From technical comm: only count the Euler (or half-loop) as a valid element when it's sandwiched between two jumps in combination

- Re-definition of Jump Sequence: "A jump sequence consists of 2 (two) jumps of any number of revolutions, beginning with any jump, immediately followed by an Axel type jump with a direct step from the landing curve of the first jump to the take-off curve of the Axel jump" so any jumps too far apart are counted as individual jumping passes

TBC & someone more knowledgeable should go voer the pairs and dance section ~
 
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
- Netherlands also proposed re-factoring PCS for men: 1.2 in SP, 2.4 in LP

- Again, Netherlands, proposing we get rid of the CDs and make skaters upload their music digitally, as well as bring along USB sticks in case of emergency :yahoo: (finally, some good proposal)

- ISU Council proposes a fixed and larger number of entries for Worlds: 42 for Singles, 28 for Pairs, 35 for Ice Dance. If there are not enough entries with minimum TES, the unqualified skaters are allowed to add TES from different competitions

- Again, Netherlands, proposes that the criteria for assessing judges['s credibility, i guess?] includes 'national bias', since apparently this was taken out at some point

- Sure. But unless the PCS panel is separated, this won't help.
- CDs still exist? This is stone age?
- Good.
- LOL, I wonder why it was "removed".
 

Danny T

Medalist
Joined
Mar 21, 2018
Is there a proposal for having, IDK, maybe 10 extra cameras for the tech calls there somewhere?

Heh, if only ...

Instead there is this: "[to] take the reduction for falls away from the Technical Panels will contribute to the desired reduction in review time."

:palmf:
 

Andrea82

Medalist
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
Norway is particularly against judges who post photos with skaters on Facebook

Add
an official should not post specific comments about the results of ISU events or post pictures/videos of competitive athletes on social media.


Reason: The officials of ISU events must be neutral and unbiased at all times. Observing the activity of many officials on social media does not always give this impression. We see judges publishing their opinion on marks and skaters, and also pictures of skaters and officials together. Some officials show openly on social media who they cheer for, we now have ISU-officials with a profile picture on Facebook with active skaters! This is not in line with the duties of an official and will be clarified with this rule.

Also they are also after team leaders

Add:
- An ISU Official must not serve as a team leader in ISU Championships, Olympic Games or Senior Grand Prix
Events.
Reason: The officials of ISU events must be neutral and unbiased at all times. ISU Officials acting as team leaders in big events gives the impression that the official is too close to the athletes from their own nation.
 

Xen

Rinkside
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Quads versus the GOE+PCS panels might help. I think there might be a lot of revamp on how falls are dealt with in GOE, too. I think it's a little early to say this. The GOE proposals made it look like quality would be valued a little more, so let's wait.

I don't think there should be a bonus for all quads at all, but for having a mix of all jumps, sure why not. It will encourage skaters mastering all technique. And hopefully, no bonus for flutzers/lippers. (The fed politicking over skaters doing that will be fun.)

Is there a proposal for having, IDK, maybe 10 extra cameras for the tech calls there somewhere?

Well I want to see the GOE, PCS panels split first before I get happy about it. The concern I have is if they don't split the panels and then scores will get interesting. I'm fine with having a variety of jumps being included, and having extra points for the skaters who make a point to include all the jump types- considering how skaters tend to favor flips vs lutzes and very few skaters are technically able to do both types. However, I'm not quite for the no repetition quads rule, simply because it would start gating people at the 4T and 4S zone. It would further push a lot of male skaters to go after harder quads, even when they are not ready, simply because there are no other ways to maximize BV potential (this probably disadvantages smaller fed skaters more).
 
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