Was Tonya Harding poorly coached? | Page 4 | Golden Skate

Was Tonya Harding poorly coached?

millie

Medalist
Joined
Nov 1, 2004
She was far from the best tonight, her freestyle was messy, and wouldn't have made it past the 3rd week any other season of the show.




I am happy that you weren’t one of the Dancing With the Stars judges, because they thought that she was fantastic. They praised her like no other...some of the top marks...They judged her for her dancing not her past so called Indiscretions. Ps..she got all my votes...
 

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
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I am happy that you weren’t one of the Dancing With the Stars judges, because they thought that she was fantastic. They praised her like no other...some of the top marks...They judged her for her dancing not her past so called Indiscretions. Ps..she got all my votes...
Yes and had they been judging like usual, and had they been judging real dance, she wouldn’t have been held up like they did there.

*background in ballroom/latin and former elite skater here. So Tonya did good a few weeks IMHO but should have never made the finale. Sorry, not sorry for honesty. YMMV.

Also, thanks for assuming that I judged her on anything but her sucky dancing.
 

jenaj

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Yes and had they been judging like usual, and had they been judging real dance, she wouldn’t have been held up like they did there.

*background in ballroom/latin and former elite skater here. So Tonya did good a few weeks IMHO but should have never made the finale. Sorry, not sorry for honesty. YMMV.

Also, thanks for assuming that I judged her on anything but her sucky dancing.

Since when do they judge "real dance" on this show? I don't think she should have made the final over Mirai but I do think she was the third best dancer on the show this season. None of the "celebrities" are held to a professional standard of dance. And part of the score is the entertainment value.
 

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
Record Breaker
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Since when do they judge "real dance" on this show? I don't think she should have made the final over Mirai but I do think she was the third best dancer on the show this season. None of the "celebrities" are held to a professional standard of dance. And part of the score is the entertainment value.

What I meant was they always judge harder. Go watch season 10 for example.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Yes and had they been judging like usual, and had they been judging real dance, she wouldn’t have been held up like they did there.

*background in ballroom/latin and former elite skater here. So Tonya did good a few weeks IMHO but should have never made the finale. Sorry, not sorry for honesty. YMMV.

Also, thanks for assuming that I judged her on anything but her sucky dancing.

Kareem Abdul Jabbar was getting 6's and 7's for mostly standing there while people dance around him. Tonya's scores were fine in comparison to that.
 

sinnerspinner

On the Ice
Joined
May 4, 2017
I, Tonya briefly touched upon her molestation. It was presented as humorous when she beat him up, but it was disgusting. Tonya really went through hard times.
 

fenway3

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
I, Tonya briefly touched upon her molestation. It was presented as humorous when she beat him up, but it was disgusting. Tonya really went through hard times.

Oh, she beat up her brother in the movie? Doubt that happened in real life, though.

I was just thinking—maybe what happened between Tonya and her coaches was transference. What's transference? Here's a dictionary definition:

The process by which emotions and desires originally associated with one person, such as a parent or sibling, are unconsciously shifted to another person.

I wonder how well Tonya would have done with a male coach?

Another thing to keep in mind is that people who are self-destructive usually have a lot of self-hatred. No doubt Tonya did. When you have great self-hatred, it's hard to make good decisions. For instance, I once knew a woman who had an MBA but very little self-respect. She had been working at a bank for 2 years and hated it. So, she decided to quit. What did she do? Well, one day, she just packed up all her stuff and left—never told her boss a thing. Why would she do such a thing? Because she had a lot of self-hatred, and this was her way of "getting back" at her boss (or so she thought). Was this a "good decision"? Of course not. Interestingly enough, she had a job interview a few years later with someone who was friends with her boss from the bank. Needless to say, she didn't get that job. ;)

Anyway, when you have a lot of self-hatred, you are likely to do things that sabotage your well-being frequently. Other people may see this, but you probably will not. When you get this concept, it's much easier to understand a good deal of Tonya's behavior.

Oh, just wondering—what have the ratings for DWTS been like for this season? Did Tonya's presence give them a boost at all? Incidentally, I just watched her "I Will Survive" number. For someone who has often been called "unmusical," she looked pretty sassy and fired up to me. :) And it looks like she's whipped herself into some good shape.

Here's an interesting article about the finale:

https://radaronline.com/exclusives/2018/05/dwts-winner-adam-rippon-tonya-harding-devastated-loss/

I don't know much about Radar Online, so not sure if all this stuff about Tonya and Adam feuding is credible. One of the other articles there said that Tonya has been a big diva, and that Nancy was last year too. :biggrin:
 

fenway3

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
She still shouldn't have clubbed Kerrigan's knee (I just don't buy that she wasn't involved in it)

Most people don't, but I don't know anyone who thinks Tonya's actually the one who clubbed Nancy's knee. :scratch2:

Incidentally, I like your user name, even though I think it's Kate Bush's worst album. ;)

but I see her in a much more sympathetic light after watching I, Tonya and reading this thread.

I think that's a positive thing. Her likely involvement in the attack should never be excused, but when you see the sewer she grew up in, you can start to see her as human at least. Also, if one of us had grown up in her exact shoes, how do we know how we would've turned out? We don't.

I do know that if you hang around criminals long enough, your odds of participating in a crime go way up. I'm thankful I didn't ever have to live with a criminal. If I had, maybe I would've gotten involved in some crime too. It's kind of scary to think about. :sad46:
 

50 Words for Snow

Final Flight
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Country
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Most people don't, but I don't know anyone who thinks Tonya's actually the one who clubbed Nancy's knee. :scratch2:

Incidentally, I like your user name, even though I think it's Kate Bush's worst album. ;)



I think that's a positive thing. Her likely involvement in the attack should never be excused, but when you see the sewer she grew up in, you can start to see her as human at least. Also, if one of us had grown up in her exact shoes, how do we know how we would've turned out? We don't.

I do know that if you hang around criminals long enough, your odds of participating in a crime go way up. I'm thankful I didn't ever have to live with a criminal. If I had, maybe I would've gotten involved in some crime too. It's kind of scary to think about. :sad46:

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that she personally attacked Kerrigan. I know she wasn't the club-wielder; I just don't believe that she didn't know that a club would be wielded and approve of it, but I suppose we'll never know. If she was truly innocent in this, and it was all the work of her husband and his loser friends, then it is a tragedy for both Tonya and Nancy, and they were both served with a gross injustice, but my money says she was in on it.

Haha I agree about the Kate Bush album, but it seemed like a good username for a skating forum, and my first choice (Icicles) was already taken. I don't skate, so I just wanted a wintry theme. Hound of Love just wouldn't have fit. :laugh:

Yeah, I think it's always a mistake to harden your heart against someone and stubbornly stick to a perception of them, so I'm happy to soften my stance on her. It's Nancy's forgiveness she needs anyway, or at least, Nancy probably needs to forgive for her own spiritual health, if she hasn't already.
 

Inessence

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Oh, I didn't mean to imply that she personally attacked Kerrigan. I know she wasn't the club-wielder; I just don't believe that she didn't know that a club would be wielded and approve of it, but I suppose we'll never know. If she was truly innocent in this, and it was all the work of her husband and his loser friends, then it is a tragedy for both Tonya and Nancy, and they were both served with a gross injustice, but my money says she was in on it.
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Yeah, I think it's always a mistake to harden your heart against someone and stubbornly stick to a perception of them, so I'm happy to soften my stance on her. It's Nancy's forgiveness she needs anyway, or at least, Nancy probably needs to forgive for her own spiritual health, if she hasn't already.

Do I think Tonya is as clean as the driven snow? No. However, the only direct evidence of Tonya in the early planning stage hinges on her calling a journalist friend to procure Nancy's practice location. She even admitted to this from the beginning after the friend told authorities. The envelope found in the garbage also substantiates the call in Tonya's handwriting. Can the actual reason for the call it be refuted? Certainly. And likely why charges for racketeering was never brought to trial. The defense attorneys only needed an alternative reason for Tonya needing that info to give one juror reasonable doubt. The other four men involved could not substantiate any claims that Tonya was complicit. The DA may have believed Gillooly's version, because he comes off as clean-cut and very matter-of-fact, while Tonya got angry and over-defensive. And as much as that DA liked the camera, I have no doubt he would have taken it to trial if he thought he could win. Now, 24 years later, Gillooly admits he lied to the FBI in his interviews for I, Tonya. A real weasel.

I just recently read somewhere that Tonya's coach and choreographer (who helped tie her laces in Lillehammer) were in the DWTS audience. So that makes at least one of her coaches (Dody Teachman) and her former choreographer still in her corner.
 

fenway3

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
However, the only direct evidence of Tonya in the early planning stage hinges on her calling a journalist friend to procure Nancy's practice location. She even admitted to this from the beginning after the friend told authorities. The envelope found in the garbage also substantiates the call in Tonya's handwriting. Can the actual reason for the call it be refuted? Certainly.

I think the fact that Tonya has "revised" her story over the years says more than anything. And one thing that really convinced me she knew about the attack is this interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh_4iGxKdP0

At 8:48, Tonya says this:

Come on—would I call up Nancy Kerrigan's hometown rink and ask 'em when she practices? How would I know where she even skates?

That makes no sense. It's an established fact that she knew the name of Nancy's rink. And at 8:18, Tonya's denial and body language do not seem truthful to me.

Now, 24 years later, Gillooly admits he lied to the FBI in his interviews for I, Tonya. A real weasel.

Really? What exactly did he say?

I just recently read somewhere that Tonya's coach and choreographer (who helped tie her laces in Lillehammer) were in the DWTS audience. So that makes at least one of her coaches (Dody Teachman) and her former choreographer still in her corner.

Wasn't the choreographer Erika somebody?
 

fenway3

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
Oh, I didn't mean to imply that she personally attacked Kerrigan.

OK, got it. :)

Haha I agree about the Kate Bush album, but it seemed like a good username for a skating forum, and my first choice (Icicles) was already taken. I don't skate, so I just wanted a wintry theme. Hound of Love just wouldn't have fit. :laugh:

Or "Red Shoe" either, I guess. ;)

Yeah, I think it's always a mistake to harden your heart against someone and stubbornly stick to a perception of them, so I'm happy to soften my stance on her.

That's a healthy attitude.

It's Nancy's forgiveness she needs anyway, or at least, Nancy probably needs to forgive for her own spiritual health, if she hasn't already.

It sounds to me as if Nancy pretty much has forgiven her. Now, I think there's a difference between forgiving a person and forgiving what they've done—I don't believe that you forgive the crime per se. But yes, forgiving someone who did something bad to you is mainly for your benefit, not the person you're forgiving. And of course, you can forgive someone and then decide never to have any contact with them again, especially when they've never apologized.

Nancy just seems to display a remarkably mature attitude about the whole incident. She could easily play the victim card, but it seems she never does.
 

Inessence

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
I think the fact that Tonya has "revised" her story over the years says more than anything. And one thing that really convinced me she knew about the attack is this interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh_4iGxKdP0

At 8:48, Tonya says this:

Come on—would I call up Nancy Kerrigan's hometown rink and ask 'em when she practices? How would I know where she even skates?

That makes no sense. It's an established fact that she knew the name of Nancy's rink. And at 8:18, Tonya's denial and body language do not seem truthful to me.



Really? What exactly did he say?



Wasn't the choreographer Erika somebody?

Yes. Erika somebody.

Here’s one article where the writer directly quotes Jeff, which is also in the movie. https://www.mystatesman.com/enterta...ds-way-more-the-facts/4ZEcW8o2bNA0XAM4LQBg8O/

There is also longer version of the original script with additional excerpts of Jeff’s interview. I’m not sure if it’s still online. I read it before the movie was released.

I remember that 1998 interview. Tonya always denied calling Nancy’s rink. If Jeff had her find out the address from a friend for some innocuous reason, it’s reasonable she would forget it shortly afterwards. Especially since she never denied obtaining it. I think the biggest “Ah-Ha!” moment for many was the recent special where said she overheard Shawn and Jeff talking about “taking someone out”, but didn’t take it seriously. Then she supposedly recollected it a few days after the attack. Head-up-ass disease due to training for Olys or malicious co-conspirator? It’s anyone’s guess.
 

50 Words for Snow

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OK, got it. :)



Or "Red Shoe" either, I guess. ;)



That's a healthy attitude.



It sounds to me as if Nancy pretty much has forgiven her. Now, I think there's a difference between forgiving a person and forgiving what they've done—I don't believe that you forgive the crime per se. But yes, forgiving someone who did something bad to you is mainly for your benefit, not the person you're forgiving. And of course, you can forgive someone and then decide never to have any contact with them again, especially when they've never apologized.

Nancy just seems to display a remarkably mature attitude about the whole incident. She could easily play the victim card, but it seems she never does.

Oh for sure, if you don't acknowledge the harm done and the fact that it was wrong, you're denying, not forgiving. You can totally walk away from someone after forgiving them. Forgiveness is giving up your right to redress, like forgiving a loan. It's releasing your righteous indignation and thirst for vengeance. It's letting it go, but that doesn't mean it was right, or that you have to remain in contact or relationship with that person, although of course, you can.
 

fenway3

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
Here’s one article where the writer directly quotes Jeff, which is also in the movie. https://www.mystatesman.com/enterta...ds-way-more-the-facts/4ZEcW8o2bNA0XAM4LQBg8O/

Thanks for the link. At least he admits he ruined her career.

There is also longer version of the original script with additional excerpts of Jeff’s interview. I’m not sure if it’s still online. I read it before the movie was released.

Do you remember what he said that he lied to the FBI about?

If Jeff had her find out the address from a friend for some innocuous reason, it’s reasonable she would forget it shortly afterwards. Especially since she never denied obtaining it.

Maybe under normal circumstances. But this was in the news—millions of people knew that Tonya had called a journalist to get the name and location of Nancy's practice rink. And Tonya obviously knew that. Wouldn't you have to be pretty dumb to forget such a thing? :biggrin:

I think the biggest “Ah-Ha!” moment for many was the recent special where said she overheard Shawn and Jeff talking about “taking someone out”, but didn’t take it seriously. Then she supposedly recollected it a few days after the attack.

That too. :)

Another thing to keep in mind is that Tonya said she was extremely scared after learning that Nancy had been attacked. But apparently she never bothered to call her "bodyguard" in Portland to tell him to get to Detroit pronto. If you were terrified about being attacked yourself, isn't that the very first thing you'd do?
 

fenway3

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
Oh for sure, if you don't acknowledge the harm done and the fact that it was wrong, you're denying, not forgiving. You can totally walk away from someone after forgiving them. Forgiveness is giving up your right to redress, like forgiving a loan. It's releasing your righteous indignation and thirst for vengeance. It's letting it go, but that doesn't mean it was right, or that you have to remain in contact or relationship with that person, although of course, you can.

Yes, and it seems that Nancy has pretty much navigated that route. I don't think she wants anything to do with Tonya (naturally), but she doesn't seem especially bitter. She appears to hope that Tonya has gotten herself together and found some measure of happiness in her life. Her attitude seems to be, "Tonya's got her life, and I've got mine. The attack happened ages ago—who wants to remember it?"
 

50 Words for Snow

Final Flight
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Yes, and it seems that Nancy has pretty much navigated that route. I don't think she wants anything to do with Tonya (naturally), but she doesn't seem especially bitter. She appears to hope that Tonya has gotten herself together and found some measure of happiness in her life. Her attitude seems to be, "Tonya's got her life, and I've got mine. The attack happened ages ago—who wants to remember it?"

That's good to hear!
 

fenway3

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
That's good to hear!

And what's so interesting is that Nancy seemed to be the queen of sticking her skate in her mouth when she was younger. I don't follow her that closely, but she seems to be much more intelligent in her comments now. If she disses Tonya, she sure doesn't seem to do it publicly. :)

Actually, it seems that other skaters are more critical of Tonya than Nancy herself. Nancy could've whined that Tonya should never have been invited to appear on DWTS, but I'm not aware that she ever did. If Nancy doesn't feel the need to do this kind of thing, I don't know why some other skaters do. :scratch2: It's refreshing that Mirai doesn't seem to be one of those.
 

Inessence

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Actually, it seems that other skaters are more critical of Tonya than Nancy herself. Nancy could've whined that Tonya should never have been invited to appear on DWTS, but I'm not aware that she ever did. If Nancy doesn't feel the need to do this kind of thing, I don't know why some other skaters do. :scratch2:.

Her husband did on his Twitter. Called it a joke.
 

fenway3

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
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