Thoughts on Evgenia Medvedeva's 2018-19 Season | Page 24 | Golden Skate

Thoughts on Evgenia Medvedeva's 2018-19 Season

silverfoxes

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
I've been wondering about this question for a while now. Why did Evgenia choose Orser as her coach, as opposed to say, someone like Mishin? Mishin also has experience with older female skaters. I know champions don't take the easy way out and all that, but I can't help but think things would be so much easier for her if she had stayed in Russia.

Mishin is a good jump coach...and that's it. He is stuck in the 6.0 era. Have you really not seen any of his skaters in the past decade or so? It would be a massive step backward for Evgenia. He might fix her flutz, but only after he'd gotten rid of all the choreo and transitions in her programs.
 

DSQ

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Apr 14, 2018
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Why though? Apart from Yuna (who left him for reasons unknown) he hadn’t had much success with Ladies skaters.

Orser is a popular coach right now, and quite right considering all his success but if Tursynbaeva resent improvements are anything to go by he’s not the best coach for everyone.

I actually think going to Orser was a good move publicity wise but my knowledge is pretty limited technically and so I’d be interested what about him as a ladies coach is appealing.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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Dec 27, 2009
It's clear Zhenya was drawn to Brian. She mentioned in the GS interview from a few weeks back that Brian was her first choice. Maybe she liked what she saw whens he was coaching Javi, Yuzu and the rest. Sometimes people feel a certain connection or draw.

She seems to like the environment and being with a wide array of skaters her age or older.

You're right that a coach is not for everyone, but I don't see why the fact that Brian only had one Ladies individual OGM automatically means that he couldn't possibly be the right choice for Zhenya.
 

leoleo

Medalist
Joined
Jul 5, 2018
I think it was mentioned in an interview that Yuna Kim had something to do with her choice and Javi also seems to have talked to her about moving. But tbh why are people still arguing or even wondering why she chose Orser? who else could she have chosen? Eteri and Orser are the top coaches right now, she wasn't going to go from Eteri to someone else. He has several Olympic and World medals under his belt. Even if he hasn't had big ladies in the recent years, he has Hanyu and Fernandez who need no introduction. And more than anything, she needed a place where she could feel like she could express herself, have a say in her own skating. It wasn't just a who's the best coach decision. she has many times that she likes the atmosphere at TCC.
 

hippomoomin

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
I remember in response to the question why she choose Brian, she first said "I don't know," then she said maybe it's the way he interacts with people (or skaters, cannot remember exactly)
I am really curious in what venue Evgenia saw Brian interacts with his students except at competitions/practices of competitions or from videos of competitions.

It's clear Zhenya was drawn to Brian. She mentioned in the GS interview from a few weeks back that Brian was her first choice. Maybe she liked what she saw whens he was coaching Javi, Yuzu and the rest. Sometimes people feel a certain connection or draw.

She seems to like the environment and being with a wide array of skaters her age or older.

You're right that a coach is not for everyone, but I don't see why the fact that Brian only had one Ladies individual OGM automatically means that he couldn't possibly be the right choice for Zhenya.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
She says precisely, "I can't answer this question." But I don't think that means "I have no clue." Sometimes when you say "I don't know" or "I can't answer" you're not being literal and saying you don't know, but saying "I can't fully articulate or fully answer the question." Cause she then goes and answers the question.

Having been backstage at competitions, it's pretty easy to observe coaches and students interacting with each other. I'm sure it wasn't like she was staring at Brian, but she might have noticed something in passing. Skating's also a small world, so chances are she also talked to other skaters---she mentions Javi influenced her decision.
 

DSQ

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Apr 14, 2018
Country
United-Kingdom
You're right that a coach is not for everyone, but I don't see why the fact that Brian only had one Ladies individual OGM automatically means that he couldn't possibly be the right choice for Zhenya.

Oh I’m not saying he wasn’t the right choice just because he hasn’t had any resent ladies success but I just wonder what, as a coach, he excels at teaching ladies skaters and what Medvedeva could gain from *only* Orser and not other coaches.

Orser and Eteri might be the top two but it doesn’t mean that they are the only two worth working with. Uno, Chen and Osmond all train with others and are exceptional skaters.
 

solani

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Sep 8, 2014
Country
Austria
Mishin is a good jump coach...and that's it. He is stuck in the 6.0 era. Have you really not seen any of his skaters in the past decade or so? It would be a massive step backward for Evgenia. He might fix her flutz, but only after he'd gotten rid of all the choreo and transitions in her programs.
Mishin knows that it's sometimes smart to concentrate on the important stuff.
And Mishin wouldn't work with a skater he's never worked with anyway, as far as I know. He only worked with Carolina, because they have a history together, she was often at his summer camps.
 

moriel

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
I think the main thing that Orser has that russian coaches don't is international PR:
- "western style" programs that appeal more to NA audiences.
- more western PR overall (I mean, before the move, how many english interviews she gave? and that is not due to winning silver, since NA journalists are not really stalking Alina, who has gold)
 

composer

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
- more western PR overall (I mean, before the move, how many english interviews she gave? and that is not due to winning silver, since NA journalists are not really stalking Alina, who has gold)

I know she did at least one with Jackie Wong pre-Olympics, but don’t remember when exactly.
 

solani

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Sep 8, 2014
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Austria
I think the main thing that Orser has that russian coaches don't is international PR:
- "western style" programs that appeal more to NA audiences.
- more western PR overall (I mean, before the move, how many english interviews she gave? and that is not due to winning silver, since NA journalists are not really stalking Alina, who has gold)
I think that, at this point, Evgenia is simply more interesting than Alina, that's why so many journalist aks her for interviews. She's older, was the clear favourite for Olympic Gold before the season started and "only" won silver. And now she left her long time coach. She's very articulate and seems fun to talk to. I honestly don't think that Orser wants extra publicity before Evgenia has delivered some great results.
 

eaglehelang

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 15, 2017
Well, thats pretty simple.
Mishin produced his last world champion in ladies in 2015, when Tuktamysheva won gold. Also, to add to his credentials, we should mention his work with Kostner, in her 30s, and Tuktik currently jumping a 3A at 21.
Orser produced his last world champion in ladies in 2009, when Yuna Kim won gold. In 2010, she won an OGM at 19.

There's your answer.

Orser produced a doubled OG champion, 2014 & 2018. In addition to World champions 2014 till 2017. It only stopped cos both Javier & Yuzuru did not participate in WC this year.

Ladies singles has differences from men's discipline yes, but one cannot discount Orser's methods has produced OG champs
 

ankifeather

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
I don't think a skater's choice of coach is necessarily only based on the type of past successful student. It would also have a lot to do with the coach's teaching philosophy, facilities and other trainers they can access etc. Otherwise, Hanyu and Javi would be the dumbest people in the world to move to Orser at a time when his only successful story is a female Olympic champion and one would call him a coach for 'female'. I know most think Hanyu went to Brian to train 4S like Javi and he just suddenly changed coach after his senior world debut, but according to the book of his manager, Shirota, that wasn't the case. His family considered a wide range of coaches for almost a year, including many that would be considered more of a 'male' coach than Orser at that time, but were all crossed out for various reasons.

I would think Med would have considered other coaches, even if just fleeting thoughts, and has her other reasons, outside of just Yuna, to want to go to Brian in the end. Whether her choice is right is still to be tested, but it isn't unreasonable.
 

Charlotte 71

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 27, 2005
Why though? Apart from Yuna (who left him for reasons unknown) he hadn’t had much success with Ladies skaters.

Orser is a popular coach right now, and quite right considering all his success but if Tursynbaeva resent improvements are anything to go by he’s not the best coach for everyone.

I actually think going to Orser was a good move publicity wise but my knowledge is pretty limited technically and so I’d be interested what about him as a ladies coach is appealing.

I have a sense, just that, a sense, that Brian does his best and most inspired work with men. But then, I always stop myself and remember... Yu-Na. I remember reading a quote from Frank Carroll from a long time ago that he preferred coaching men and boys because they were tougher and he felt he could better discipline them, and I forget his exact words, but he felt he had to be more careful with girls. It was a different time- I can't see a coach even saying something like that now - but I remember feeling at the time that it was a very honest self-assessment from Carroll. Being totally outside looking in and not really knowing what goes on at TCC, it seems like a very different place and Orser a very different coach than Carroll, but I still wonder if there is a similar dynamic that Orser just feels most comfortable and familiar coaching men - in general. But Carroll had his Michelle (for a time), and Orser had his Yu-Na. Both of those women were incredibly driven, and Zhenya seems like both a delightful person with a terrific attitude about skating and life, and a tough, driven athlete, so I hope they are finding the right chemistry.
 

moriel

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
I have a sense, just that, a sense, that Brian does his best and most inspired work with men. But then, I always stop myself and remember... Yu-Na. I remember reading a quote from Frank Carroll from a long time ago that he preferred coaching men and boys because they were tougher and he felt he could better discipline them, and I forget his exact words, but he felt he had to be more careful with girls. It was a different time- I can't see a coach even saying something like that now - but I remember feeling at the time that it was a very honest self-assessment from Carroll. Being totally outside looking in and not really knowing what goes on at TCC, it seems like a very different place and Orser a very different coach than Carroll, but I still wonder if there is a similar dynamic that Orser just feels most comfortable and familiar coaching men. But Carroll had his Michelle (for a time), and Orser had his Yu-Na. Both of those women were incredibly driven, and Zhenya seems like both a delightful person with a terrific attitude about skating and life, and a tough, driven athlete, so I hope they are finding the right chemistry.

Overall, there were many quotes from different coaches.
For example, Mishin said stuff about it (he mostly prefers working with men, and his girls are exceptions).
Eteri said same as Frank Carroll, except switching boys and girls =)
And well, quite a few top coaches who, without saying stuff, have a major gender imbalance in their top students. I mean, see Buianova (does she even has male students?)

So my guess is that there is a difference between coaching boys and girls, each coach has its own preferences and its own abilities.
 

eaglehelang

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 15, 2017
I don't think a skater's choice of coach is necessarily only based on the type of past successful student. It would also have a lot to do with the coach's teaching philosophy, facilities and other trainers they can access etc. Otherwise, Hanyu and Javi would be the dumbest people in the world to move to Orser at a time when his only successful story is a female Olympic champion and one would call him a coach for 'female'. I know most think Hanyu went to Brian to train 4S like Javi and he just suddenly changed coach after his senior world debut, but according to the book of his manager, Shirota, that wasn't the case. His family considered a wide range of coaches for almost a year, including many that would be considered more of a 'male' coach than Orser at that time, but were all crossed out for various reasons.

I would think Med would have considered other coaches, even if just fleeting thoughts, and has her other reasons, outside of just Yuna, to want to go to Brian in the end. Whether her choice is right is still to be tested, but it isn't unreasonable.

On Yuzuru going to Orser because of Javier's 4S, Yuzuru said so, a couple of times. It's definitely one of the reasons. The other was Kim Yuna,an Asian, winning the OG gold. The 3rd was to be at a location where he could get quick medical treatment in case of asthma attacks.
Even back then, on the back of Yuna's win, my impression was Orser could have his pick of students. Students were eagerly applying,both male & female.

Evgenia going to Orser after the multiple WCs and OG champs isnt surprising at all. Orser & co are the most sought after coaches of the day. China wanted Boyang Jin to go to Orser, US fans wanted Nathan Chen to go to Orser, etc etc. The main issue would be whether the student(if Orser & Tracy Wilson accepts them) can afford the price.
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
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Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
Let’s see, why does Orser have international “PR”?

Two time Olympic gold medalist and world gold medalist.... from Japan.

Two time world gold medalist and Olympic bronze ..... from Spain.

Numerous other skaters from numerous other countries. All training at an international training center in Canada. So his reputation is based on results.

Could that possibly be a reason for Zhenya training there? :think:

naaah, it’s just PR:laugh:
 

halulupu

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 21, 2017
I think that, at this point, Evgenia is simply more interesting than Alina, that's why so many journalist aks her for interviews. She's older, was the clear favourite for Olympic Gold before the season started and "only" won silver. And now she left her long time coach. She's very articulate and seems fun to talk to. I honestly don't think that Orser wants extra publicity before Evgenia has delivered some great results.

totally agree. zhenya is a star. she has something to tell, she showed personality, she is risking everything. zagitova is "just" another teenager OG. Howerver very beautiful, give her 2 more years, some bitter defeats and she will be a star
 
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