Thoughts on U.S. skating talent

narcissa · May 26, 2018

Spirals for Miles said:
Well if only the richer / more privileged kids can skate, then yeah, there's less talents that can make a big name for themselves...it really sucks ...

I can only speak about skating in New York City, not New York State, but it costs $25/hour or something just for ice time, and coaching is $100+/hour. That's just prohibitively expensive even if you get a discount of 50% off or whatever when you show promise as a skater (which would require you to have already been skating).

Even as someone who works full-time and makes a decent salary, it's still a huge huge chunk of my budget every month. And minimum wage is like $10 in New York.

Ic3Rabbit · May 26, 2018

No one takes an hour lesson at a time, not even an elite skater, so that price is kind of ridiculous.

If it's group lessons it's going to be a lump sum for however many weeks it is.

noidont · May 26, 2018

You need helicopter Asian parents to make things work or the kid him/herself has to want to win really bad. One of Eteri's secrets is to make the kids want it bad. All this "have fun," "everyone is great" attitude isn't going to cut it in the big world. Americans think Raf is too mean or no one should be told to lose weight, as if these aren't what it takes to win medals. But in America it's no longer about winning medals. It's all about Adam Rippon kind of fame.

el henry · May 26, 2018

narcissa said:
I can only speak about skating in New York City, not New York State, but it costs $25/hour or something just for ice time, and coaching is $100+/hour. That's just prohibitively expensive even if you get a discount of 50% off or whatever when you show promise as a skater (which would require you to have already been skating).

Even as someone who works full-time and makes a decent salary, it's still a huge huge chunk of my budget every month. And minimum wage is like $10 in New York.

:agree:

It is difficult for someone of moderate means to even *live* in NYC. To live and sign up for lessons and ice time and coaches and costumes and skates, you had better be mortgaging a brownstone in Park Slope: which means you are of more than moderate means.

Let’s be real and talk real money. Middle class in the USA is defined as 42,000 to 125,000 by Pew research (can’t link, but it’s the first thing that comes up on Google). You are mortgaging the house and getting a second job for a skater if you are at the $42k level, but you are still middle class in the USA. You could live in Bethlehem on that salary without a skater. :biggrin:

But not in Park Slope.

Mamamiia · May 26, 2018

narcissa said:
I can only speak about skating in New York City, not New York State, but it costs $25/hour or something just for ice time, and coaching is $100+/hour. That's just prohibitively expensive even if you get a discount of 50% off or whatever when you show promise as a skater (which would require you to have already been skating).

Even as someone who works full-time and makes a decent salary, it's still a huge huge chunk of my budget every month. And minimum wage is like $10 in New York.

Hmm...it's $25-40 for a 50 minutes session not an hour. But I heard that's the most expensive rink in the country.

gkelly · May 26, 2018

tars said:
Wow, I don't think Russia has half as many figure skating clubs. :shocked:

Something must be wrong with the system there, if your women take 9-11 at Olympics.

Many of these would be small clubs at rinks that don't have the resources (ice time, coaching experience) for elite-track skating.

Some talented kids with supportive parents (or overinvested parents, as the case may be) might leave home at an early age with or without one parent to train with a well-known coach and get to skate several hours per day. Or the whole family might pick up and move someplace the kid's training could be supported.

And of course there are training centers, or rinks/clubs/areas with enough ice time and coaching expertise to serve the most ambitious local skaters, and some good coaches at smaller rinks who can make the most of an eager talented student.

But most of the skaters at most of the clubs set less lofty goals than competing internationally. It's not like there are realistic Olympic hopefuls in every club.

Mamamiia · May 26, 2018

Ic3Rabbit said:
No one takes an hour lesson at a time, not even an elite skater, so that price is kind of ridiculous.

If it's group lessons it's going to be a lump sum for however many weeks it is.

I actually know many kids take an hour lesson at a time, actually some take 2 hours a day, all private.
-----------------------
An hour --> 50 min session

narcissa · May 26, 2018

Ic3Rabbit said:
No one takes an hour lesson at a time, not even an elite skater, so that price is kind of ridiculous.

If it's group lessons it's going to be a lump sum for however many weeks it is.

Half an hour twice a week is the same thing, lol.

Ic3Rabbit · May 26, 2018

narcissa said:
Half an hour twice a week is the same thing, lol.

Yes, but that is not what you originally said. It would have made sense had you said this in the first place.

- - - Updated - - -

Mamamiia said:
I actually know many kids take an hour lesson at a time, actually some take 2 hours a day, all private.

That's interesting but it's not usual.

Mamamiia · May 26, 2018

Ic3Rabbit said:
Yes, but that is not what you originally said. It would have made sense had you said this in the first place.

- - - Updated - - -

That's interesting but it's not usual.

Good to know, because for a long time I thought it's standard :con3:

Ic3Rabbit · May 26, 2018

Mamamiia said:
Good to know, because for a long time I thought it's standard :con3:

No, the most I've seen for lessons (private) is 45 mins at a time, some times 50mins.

Mamamiia · May 26, 2018

Ic3Rabbit said:
No, the most I've seen for lessons (private) is 45 mins at a time, some times 50mins.

Oh I should correct it to 50 minutes, or 2x50 mins, not an hour.

gkelly · May 26, 2018

I had an hour-long lesson once or twice when I was starting with a new coach who needed more time to get to know what my current skill level was before continuing with half-hour lessons after the first one.

I've seen an occasional young skater take multiple time slots in a row with the same coach, up to an hour or more at a time.

But that's really an exception, not the norm.

Cindy1983 · May 26, 2018

I didn't intend for this to become a discussion about financial costs. I was just trying to counter some of the insane over-the-top negativity on this board. I'll say it before and I'll say it again, I give Bradie props for not letting it get to her. I view it as a less accessible form of gymnastics in the sense that you tend to see rinks in areas with cold weather which makes sense b/c winter sports are a piece of the culture. It probably wouldn't be cost effective to build a rink in Alabama b/c it wouldn't resonate culturally. This is independent of $$$.

Where I was going was the story of Shawn Johnson. The first thing I took from it was that she and her coach discussed how good she wanted to be. I'm sure a part of that discussion was whether she had the talent and the time and $ commitments. The second thing I took was the financial sacrifice. They mortgaged their house twice among, I believe other things. You don't need to be an elite level gymnast to get a college scholarship. You can be a level 8-10, and most are those levels. What's the difference b/t SJ's situation and a similar thing in figure skating?

tothepointe · May 26, 2018

tars said:
Wow, I don't think Russia has half as many figure skating clubs. :shocked:

Something must be wrong with the system there, if your women take 9-11 at Olympics.

There are a lot of people who skate and belong to figure skating clubs that have no intention of participating at the international elite level. We have other kinds of skating like synchro and adult skating that help support as many figure skating clubs as we do.

Ic3Rabbit · May 26, 2018

Cindy1983 said:
I didn't intend for this to become a discussion about financial costs. I was just trying to counter some of the insane over-the-top negativity on this board. I'll say it before and I'll say it again, I give Bradie props for not letting it get to her. I view it as a less accessible form of gymnastics in the sense that you tend to see rinks in areas with cold weather which makes sense b/c winter sports are a piece of the culture. It probably wouldn't be cost effective to build a rink in Alabama b/c it wouldn't resonate culturally. This is independent of $$$.

Where I was going was the story of Shawn Johnson. The first thing I took from it was that she and her coach discussed how good she wanted to be. I'm sure a part of that discussion was whether she had the talent and the time and $ commitments. The second thing I took was the financial sacrifice. They mortgaged their house twice among, I believe other things. You don't need to be an elite level gymnast to get a college scholarship. You can be a level 8-10, and most are those levels. What's the difference b/t SJ's situation and a similar thing in figure skating?

Talent doesn't go very far in figure skating without the money to compete and get better and move up in the ranks. Whether one comes from a wealthy family or not. There is no way to really separate the two. Figure skating requires very expensive equipment depending on your level and the boots/blades needed etc, so like it or not, you have to think of money with it.

beachmouse · May 26, 2018

For anyone curious about the finances of USA Figure Skating, like all registered non-profits in the US, they are required to file a Form 990 every year explaining what they take in and how they spend it. Here's one from a few years back:

http://www.usfsa.org/content/Form 990 2015.pdf

Executive compensation listed may sound a little high, but AFAIK is pretty much in line with other US national sporting federations on that level.

tothepointe · May 26, 2018

I wonder if trying to include roller skating as a potential cost-effective option for developing skaters would work? I know there are even less roller skating rinks but finding a suitable surface is not as hard.

But it may simply be that parents don't want their kids to become ice princesses anymore. This generation of parents it may have not been their dream to pass on. The only reason I got started in ballet as a child was because my mother still mourned being turned away from the Royal Ballet school as a child. This was back when they used to pick students based on body type before starting their training.

Ic3Rabbit · May 26, 2018

tothepointe said:
I wonder if trying to include roller skating as a potential cost-effective option for developing skaters would work? I know there are even less roller skating rinks but finding a suitable surface is not as hard.

But it may simply be that parents don't want their kids to become ice princesses anymore. This generation of parents it may have not been their dream to pass on. The only reason I got started in ballet as a child was because my mother still mourned being turned away from the Royal Ballet school as a child. This was back when they used to pick students based on body type before starting their training.

Roller skating is not a good idea to start potential figure skaters in, as we've seen with Lipinski an a few others, they have terrible form on their jumps.

Cindy1983 · May 26, 2018

The key part is that the parents had to mortgage their house twice. That's a huge sacrifice. There were other financial sacrifices too. There is a financial access issue for the elite level. The sacrifice is similar. I tend to go the scenic route in making my points. It's also not worth the financial sacrifice if you will never in a million years make it internationally, let alone to the Olympics.

Thoughts on U.S. skating talent

narcissa

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️

noidont

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

Mamamiia

gkelly

Mamamiia

narcissa

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️

Mamamiia

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️

Mamamiia

gkelly

Cindy1983

tothepointe

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️

beachmouse

tothepointe

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️

Cindy1983

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