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Thread: Backloading Bonus Limited By ISU

  1. #421
    You Know I'm a FS Fan... BillNeal's Avatar
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    Alina needs better material period. That POTO SP composition with the dozens of music cuts is so exploitive, using one cut of song for a spin only then another song for steps before the flip and then a jarring music change right at the flip takeoff. The choreography is even worse than any of her backloaded programs. Guess some choreographers have gotten so use to choreographing for one type of layout that they are just inflexible .

  2. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziotic View Post
    I hate when two spins are literally next to each other on the ice and done one after another
    But she didn't do two spins next to each other. And of the ones who made it onto the podium at the Olympics, she had the best LP, too.

  3. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by chopinskate View Post
    But she didn't do two spins next to each other. And of the ones who made it onto the podium at the Olympics, she had the best LP, too.
    Yeah, at Olympics i think only her, Kaori (who also had backloadish programme) and maybe Karen Chan didnt have that!

  4. #424
    You Know I'm a FS Fan... BillNeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chopinskate View Post
    But she didn't do two spins next to each other. And of the ones who made it onto the podium at the Olympics, she had the best LP, too.
    Yes, she didn't do two spins in a row but that doesn't mean she had good program distribution. A little off topic but her program somewhat reminded me of a person waking up drowsily in the morning, sits on their bed for a while then goes and slowly brushes their teeth. They check the time and see that they are going to be late for school/work if they keep going at the same pace. So they shower, groom, get dressed, eat breakfast, pack their lunch, etc. and then rush to catch the bus all within a condensed amount of time. This seemed especially the case with her Milan performance.

  5. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillNeal View Post
    Yes, she didn't do two spins in a row but that doesn't mean she had good program distribution.
    Funnily, I didn't imply otherwise in my statement. I merely corrected Ziotic.

    Also, I think there's a misconception that fully backloaded programs are automatically inferior. Zag didn't have a masterpiece, but skaters should work with the music, not some arbitrary "distribution".

  6. #426
    On the Ice Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    To be fair, I agree with you that difficult combos are also not rewarded enough, and Alina's 3/3 was the most impressive in the field. Still, Mirai doing 8 triples should clear Alina doing 7 triples in BV by more than 0.16 if they did the same spins and footwork.
    The breakdown for the seven jumping passes combined was

    Unfactored base value: Zagitova 46.1; Nagasu 49.1 (Mirai by 3 points)
    Second -half bonus: Zagitova 4.61; Nagasu 1.77 (Alina by 2,84)

    A virtual tie so far.

    GOE on jumps: Zagitova 9.70; Nagasu 5.17 (Alina by 4.53)

    Zagitova's big advantage was not in the back-loading bonus but in the perceived quality of the jumps. She got lots of +2s and +3s, Mirai hardly any. Possibly this perception was influenced by the judges expectations of the two skaters -- you tend to see what you expect to see, and Alina had been red hot all season. Still, Alina's jumps were right on the money -- I can't really find any fault with the judging overall.

  7. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    The breakdown for the seven jumping passes combined was

    Unfactored base value: Zagitova 46.1; Nagasu 49.1 (Mirai by 3 points)
    Second -half bonus: Zagitova 4.61; Nagasu 1.77 (Alina by 2,84)

    A virtual tie so far.

    GOE on jumps: Zagitova 9.70; Nagasu 5.17 (Alina by 4.53)

    Zagitova's big advantage was not in the back-loading bonus but in the perceived quality of the jumps. She got lots of +2s and +3s, Mirai hardly any. Possibly this perception was influenced by the judges expectations of the two skaters -- you tend to see what you expect to see, and Alina had been red hot all season. Still, Alina's jumps were right on the money -- I can't really find any fault with the judging overall.
    I think the point was, Zagitova should have been at more of a disadvantage relative to Mirai in the BV of the programs, GOE marks notwithstanding. Zagitova’s GOE advantage was only that big of an advantage because they were starting off at a virtual tie— the question is whether they should have been starting off that close in the first place.

  8. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by chopinskate View Post
    Funnily, I didn't imply otherwise in my statement. I merely corrected Ziotic.

    Also, I think there's a misconception that fully backloaded programs are automatically inferior. Zag didn't have a masterpiece, but skaters should work with the music, not some arbitrary "distribution".
    When I mentioned the two spins in a row I was t actually referring to Alina specifically , I just meant in general it drives me nuts.

    But I stand by the ice coverage. Especially for Alina’s short. She only skates from one end of the rink to the other 3 times. Other skaters do it 8-9 times in a short.

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