Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3
Results 21 to 29 of 29

Thread: How common would triples be if...?

  1. #21
    Bona Fide Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    6,261

    2 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by sk8chis View Post
    This is what i’ve always wondered. When people talk about being able to make it to the high-level comps they talk about starting very young. I always wondering let’s say someone is a later starter like not 3 or 4 but 9 or 10, and can follow these rigorous training scenarios, who’s to say they can’t get triples and qualify?
    It's not impossible, for the most gifted and most committed among the later starters. It's just that much less likely.

    I can’t imagine an 11 year who can train uninterrupted not be able to catch up with the relatively low percentage of skaters who started very young and continued with the sport.
    Someone who starts at 11 and trains many hours per week with all advantages should after a few years be able to catch up to skaters her own age who started at 5 or 6 and trained a few hours a week for most of that time, or with interruptions. They should all be able to do at least some double jumps.

    But catching up to the most talented skaters of the same age who started early and continued training hard with all the advantages and are already landing triples at 11 while the 11-year-old starter is still learning single jumps is much less likely. They have a 5 or 6 year head start. Some of them might stall out as teenagers for various reasons, but if they have all the advantages of the late starter plus the advantage of starting early, many of those who stay in will probably remain ahead of the late starter.

    Or am i just naive and want everyone to reach success lol.
    It depends how you define success. Most of those skaters, even the ones who started early with every possible advantage, will never get to the Olympics. No more than 3 skaters per country per discipline can have that achievement once in four years.

    Ever getting to compete internationally at some level? More likely than Olympics or Worlds. Ever getting to compete at Nationals? Very likely in small countries, more likely than internationally in larger countries with deeper fields. (And more likely for boys than for girls.) Ever getting past the first round of qualifiers (e.g., regionals, or qualifying rounds at regionals, in the US)? Possible. Getting to regionals or comparable official qualifying competitions? Definitely possible, though those who start near or after age 13 will miss the chance to compete as juveniles in the US and may be racing against time to qualify as intermediates before age 18, depending how late they started. Shining in lower level competitions or in disciplines other than singles/pairs/ice dance? Very very possible.

    All of the above could be considered "success" for someone who sets realistic goals and then achieves and surpasses those goals. If a skater reaches the first goals easily and exceeds her own expectations, then it's time to set higher goals, which might but probably won't lead all the way to the Olympics. But starting with the highest possible goal as the only definition of success is pretty much a guaranteed path to failure.

  2. #22
    Tripping on the Podium
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    512
    Country: Australia

    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by sk8chis View Post
    I always wondering let’s say someone is a later starter like not 3 or 4 but 9 or 10, and can follow these rigorous training scenarios, who’s to say they can’t get triples and qualify?
    People have been known to do that. Johnny Weir famously started at age 11 and jumped his first axel about a week later; he's probably the best-known example, but there's also Chafik Besseghier, who skates for France. He didn't start until he was 13, and still got himself a quad and has skated at Worlds and the Olympics. If a skater combines natural talent with the ideal muscle composition, good training and a ton of application, it's certainly possible. Just uncommon.

  3. #23
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    242

    0 Not allowed!
    I think that the idea that people require early specialization for figure skating is a flawed idea. I think there is a small group of activities that if the skater does these first and THEN transfers to skating as an adolescent then they are likely to just as well as a kid who started in skating young. Gymnastics, ballet, roller skating, and perhaps a few others.

    Johnny Weir did not learn an axel 1 week after he started skating. He learned it 1 week after starting LESSONS. He had already taught himself many jumps on roller skates before and he'd been ice skating a little before starting lessons.

    My son taught himself many gymnastics moves. If I now enrolled him in gymnastics or acro dance and announced he'd learned to do an aerial after just a week of lessons, that would not be an entirely accurate description. He's certainly naturally talented, but the passion to teach oneself and practice is probably the more important aspect.

    I'm not saying the talent or natural gifts aren't important, but I am saying the passion/devotion/willingness to practice is MORE important.

  4. #24
    I can't help but love the taste of danger, baby... Ic3Rabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    4,238
    Country: United States of America

    0 Not allowed!
    And everything shown to date proves that point wrong.

    Roller skaters have horrible jump technique and a hard time correcting it for the ice.
    Gymnasts have totally different body composition.

    The later one learns, the less likely they are to make it, time-wise as well as many other factors.

    Just because Johnny Weir was a "success story" doesn't mean that's true for all.

  5. #25
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    242

    1 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ic3Rabbit View Post
    Just because Johnny Weir was a "success story" doesn't mean that's true for all.
    Exactly, which is why I pointed out the various factors that might have made a difference rather than body type or natural gifts.

    There are literally not enough data points to prove anything about figure skating. The sport has only existed in it's current fashion about 30 years and only certain cultures tend to participate. We do not have enough data to know for certain that any particular body type is valuable. we don't have enough data to know if certain coaching styles are more effective. We just don't have enough data.

    Experts are working on this problem for sports that have much larger numbers of people who participate. They're still struggling to find the answers.

  6. #26
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    242

    1 Not allowed!

    How common would triples be if...?

    - Figures were eliminated from international competition in 1990
    - Midori Ito landed the first triple axel by a woman in 1988
    - She was also the first woman to do 7 triples in her freeskate program in 1988
    - Men’s quads also became more of a ‘thing’ in the 1980s

    The emphasis on athleticism and triples for women is only about 30 years old.

    If you want, you can maybe 40 years. obviously some skaters and coaches have been pushing for figure skating to be regarded as more of a sport and for more objective judging/scoring for a long time, but this emphasis on women getting triples is new. There’s not much data.

  7. #27
    On the Ice Arwen17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    138
    Country: United States of America

    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by VegMom View Post
    - Figures were eliminated from international competition in 1990
    - Midori Ito landed the first triple axel by a woman in 1988
    - She was also the first woman to do 7 triples in her freeskate program in 1988
    - Men’s quads also became more of a ‘thing’ in the 1980s

    The emphasis on athleticism and triples for women is only about 30 years old.

    If you want, you can maybe 40 years. obviously some skaters and coaches have been pushing for figure skating to be regarded as more of a sport and for more objective judging/scoring for a long time, but this emphasis on women getting triples is new. There’s not much data.
    That's a great point I didn't fully think about... since triples have existed before I was born, it makes triples seem "normal". Similar to the kids being born today who've never lived in a world without tablets. :P
    I was born at the very, very end of 1990, so I grew up with triples and had no idea what "figures" were or why it was called "figure skating". Figure skating was always triple jumps to me and Michelle Kwan was the first one I noticed in 5th grade when I was old enough to start noticing the Olympics even existed.

  8. #28
    I can't help but love the taste of danger, baby... Ic3Rabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    4,238
    Country: United States of America

    2 Not allowed!
    Figures need to come back.

  9. #29
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    100

    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ic3Rabbit View Post
    Figures need to come back.
    They dont due to financial and coaching issues, but this is a thread for another day.

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •