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No, my post was not directed to you. I simply chose the first comment of this page to quote.
China Will Not Host ISU Events in 2018-19
- Thread starter atsumiri
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The judges pretty much robbed China's gold in Men's Aerials in PC and the overly harsh penalties against TeamChina in short track. I think these are the main issue.
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The problem with the CHN men's judge is not only the national bias but him/her scoring way out of the "corridor" from the rest of the panel scores. Like others have said, plenty of judges are guilty of bias but they tend to stay within the margin. The ESP judge for instance was the only one to put Javi first on the SP but only by less than a point. The CHN judge ran away from the corridor and never looked back.
ISU just had to single him/her out.
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- Jan 26, 2008
Which of course proves SnowWhite's point . The USA judge national biased judging, despite being obvious wasn't a lot in the terms of scores, that's why she got free. Not saying is right but its what happened.
Though I think there's a better case against the USA judge when you also add her Scores for Zhou. She put him 3rd!! while none of all the other judges ranked him higher than 5th!
The problem with the CHN men's judge is not only the national bias but him/her scoring way out of the "corridor" from the rest of the panel scores. Like others have said, plenty of judges are guilty of bias but they tend to stay within the margin. The ESP judge for instance was the only one to put Javi first on the SP but only by less than a point. The CHN judge ran away from the corridor and never looked back.
Yes, but apparently the pairs judge is also under investigation, when there are other cases of obviously biased judging that are far more egregious (chiefly the US men's judge). If it was only the Chinese men's judge, that would be one thing, but ignoring Parker and going after Huang does look like singling out China.
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You mean the men's aerials final that the eventual silver medallist only progressed to because the judges completely screwed over David Morris?
China wants to talk about judging? Yeah? How about Peng/Jin somehow being placed above Katia/Harley despite the former making MAJOR errors?
If this is what it's about then it's pathetic and I hope the ISU doesn't give in. If they want to throw a tantrum like a 2 year old so be it.
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well.. pairs... it doesn't surprise me... i love sui/han but it wasn't their best LP... getting a silver there was very very good.
re short track... Canadians, Koreans, AMericans, British, everyone had tough calls against them.... the world champion Elise Christie didn't get a single medal and was pretty much DQ all the time...
considering the Chinese team is rebuilding... long gone are the times of Yang Yang.... i find that ... suspicious to say the least
re short track... Canadians, Koreans, AMericans, British, everyone had tough calls against them.... the world champion Elise Christie didn't get a single medal and was pretty much DQ all the time...
considering the Chinese team is rebuilding... long gone are the times of Yang Yang.... i find that ... suspicious to say the least
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Sure not a very good performance for Yuzu's standards but still worse than Uno, Javi and Zhou!!! on that night?? at least according to the USA judge. DO NOT think so.
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I do agree the USA judge should be sanctioned too .
As for CHN's pair judge, maybe they are also looking at the SP scores aswell?? He/she put Yu&Zhan second!!! on the short program and also tried to mark down Hocke & Blommaert as much as possible (21st) to make sure Peng & Jin could qualify.
http://skatingscores.com/2018/oly/pairs/short/tss/
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If ISU does not give in, who will host the next Olympic?
I did look at SP scores. In fact, I have a whole spreadsheet of score deviations which you can find here. I agree the pattern of Huang's scores are highly suspicious, but again, none of them actually deviate that drastically from the real scores, as being around 4 points off from the actual score was pretty common in the Olympic Pairs SP, and Huang had plenty of other scores that deviated that much or more in either direction (and there were several scores that were farther away from the real scores in that segment of the competition--for instance, the Canadian judge scored one of the Canadian pairs 5.3 points above the mean). Whereas a deviation of 10 points from the mean is highly unusual, especially for judges that aren't systematically nicer or harsher than other judges. The point isn't that Huang isn't biased--she(?) almost certainly is. The point is just that going after her and not others is not an even hand application of the rules.
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I think is the scoring of Hocke & Blommaert in the SP what seals the deal for me. After Peng & Jin had a fall and were in danger of not qualifying H&B were the only "weaker" team on paper left to skate and surprise surprise the CHN judge puts them second to last! 4 spots below than the next low scoring judge. That's not only national bias but intentionally marking down a rival to help your own .
I do agree with your last point though. Other judges should have been called aswell.
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Vancouver and Calgary already have all the facilities... only the athletes "condos" need to be built as the ones in Vancouver are all now occupied
I am sure other Olympics cities also have venues/faclities
Do they cancel all international winter sports events? Then it has nothing to do with the sanctioned figure skating judges. Btw the Chinese judges stood out when every other judge ranked Nathan and Aljona/Bruno 1st but the Chinese judges. They were way out of line and there is no ground to protest. More likely the Chinese government is holding intl winter sports hostage this time and they may be testing if they could hold IOC hostage by 2020. If the order were from the government, all the sports organizers could only follow it and cancelled their events.
Korea may not mind to host a GP permanently or two Winter Olympics in a row, if needed.
Korea may not mind to host a GP permanently or two Winter Olympics in a row, if needed.
Pretty much my point. It's not about who is more obvious in their biases, it simply that this can be seen by CSA as ISU singling out China here when other judges more or less also do the same thing. They may have continuing problems with ISU (most notably the disqualification of China's short track team) but this may be the final straw that pushed CSA to make a more solid position. Otherwise they should have done it right after ISU and IOC ignored their complaints.
I think it's too early to talk about whether China will still host the 2022 WO; they will likely sort and make amends for the next season.
Re: Hocke/Blommaert vs Peng/Jin. Huang underscored H/B by 2.74 point compared to their actual score, which is less than they underscored Della Monica/Guarise, Savchenko/Massot, Zabiiako/Enbert, and Moore-Towers/Marinaro, in order from greatest under-score to least. Huang also over scored the Knierims, Duskova/Bidar, and Ziegler/Kiefer more than any of the Chinese skaters in the short.
So again, while Huang does have nationalistic bias, the degree to which she exhibits it is not particularly out of the norm. It's much more in line with, say, the Spanish judge who over scored Javier Fernandez by 3.9 point in the short and underscored Shoma Uno by 3.9, Boyang Jin by 5.2, Aliev by 5.6 and Kolyada by 6 points, or the Russian pairs FS judge who underscored Sui/Han by 9.1 points and Duhamel/Radford by 5.7 (though they didn't overscore T/M) in the free. Huang's scores were a far cry from the Chinese men's judge, who over scored Boyang Jin by 22 points and underscored Uno by 11.1 and Fernandez by 15 (Hanyu, for some reason, escaped the Chinese judge's wrath). Huang's scores were not even on the order of the US men's judge's scores. Parker scored the US men an average of 9.2 points higher than they actually received, and also underscored Hanyu and Jin by 8.92 and 10.02 respectively. In fact, the only saving grace of the men's competition judging was that the nationalistic bias largely cancelled out, at least as far as top placements were concerned. Which is one reason why going after biased judges in an inconsistent way makes the problem worse, not better. Judges that are biased in different directions can counteract each other. If you eliminate some of the biased judges but not others, then that counterbalance is thrown off.
So again, while Huang does have nationalistic bias, the degree to which she exhibits it is not particularly out of the norm. It's much more in line with, say, the Spanish judge who over scored Javier Fernandez by 3.9 point in the short and underscored Shoma Uno by 3.9, Boyang Jin by 5.2, Aliev by 5.6 and Kolyada by 6 points, or the Russian pairs FS judge who underscored Sui/Han by 9.1 points and Duhamel/Radford by 5.7 (though they didn't overscore T/M) in the free. Huang's scores were a far cry from the Chinese men's judge, who over scored Boyang Jin by 22 points and underscored Uno by 11.1 and Fernandez by 15 (Hanyu, for some reason, escaped the Chinese judge's wrath). Huang's scores were not even on the order of the US men's judge's scores. Parker scored the US men an average of 9.2 points higher than they actually received, and also underscored Hanyu and Jin by 8.92 and 10.02 respectively. In fact, the only saving grace of the men's competition judging was that the nationalistic bias largely cancelled out, at least as far as top placements were concerned. Which is one reason why going after biased judges in an inconsistent way makes the problem worse, not better. Judges that are biased in different directions can counteract each other. If you eliminate some of the biased judges but not others, then that counterbalance is thrown off.
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I have to admit I almost thought the Chinese judge scored so out of line at the Olympics just to help the US judge's ridiculous scores. I am glad I was wrong.
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- Jun 13, 2018
Yes the US Judge too......but really the China Judge did it more glaring..... look at the detail score sheet, almost all +3GOE across the board and PCS 9.5 for Jin, the PCS is higher than Javi!!!!?? The China Judge marked up on Jin and way down for Shoma and Javi!
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