Judges & Referees Webinar for GOE +5 to -5

gsk8 · Jun 26, 2018

The ISU Single & Pair Skating, Ice Dance and Synchronized Skating Technical Committees, through the support of the ISU Development Program, will conduct three webinars on the new +5 to -5 scales for Grades of Execution (GOEs) on July 7, 2018. The webinars will be available on the ISU Development Projects YouTube Channel. These webinars are intended to provide an in-depth introduction to the new GOE scales and will include video examples to illustrate the standards. Coaches and Skaters will find the information useful in addition to Judges and Referees. All the webinars will be available from July 7, 2018 and below are the names of the moderators of each of the webinars:

Synchronized Skating:
Moderator: Lois Long, Synchronized Skating Technical Committee member

Singles and Pairs:
Moderators: Fabio Bianchetti, Single & Pair Skating Technical Committee Chair
Susan Lynch, Single & Pair Skating Technical Committee member

Ice Dance:
Moderators: Halina Gordon-Poltorak, Ice Dance Technical Committee Chair
Shawn Rettstatt, Ice Dance Technical Committee Chair member

The GOE scales can be found in ISU Communication 2168 for Singles and Pairs & ISU Communication 2164 for Ice Dance.

Synchronized Skating, additional information to be available after the webinars.

chopinskate · Jun 26, 2018

Will there be coffee breaks?

moriel · Jun 26, 2018

It will be highly enjoyable to compare those with the way judges score stuff over the season.

CaroLiza_fan · Jun 26, 2018

Who or what is "Webinar"?!

Is this something else new that I didn't hear about because I didn't pay as much attention to the Congress as I should have? :rolleye:

CaroLiza_fan

chopinskate · Jun 26, 2018

CaroLiza_fan said:
Who or what is "Webinar"?!

Is this something else new that I didn't hear about because I didn't pay as much attention to the Congress as I should have?

CaroLiza_fan

A seminar on the web? (legitimately can't tell if you don't know it for real, or it's sarcasm)

Winnie_20 · Jun 26, 2018

CaroLiza_fan said:
Who or what is "Webinar"?!

Is this something else new that I didn't hear about because I didn't pay as much attention to the Congress as I should have?

CaroLiza_fan

a webinar is just a seminar on the web, nothing fancy, just a kewl newish word. ;-)

OS · Jun 26, 2018

Oh great!! ... the judges will have as much training and qualification as anybody here who bothers to take up these webinars!

Will there an examination at the end, where the judges are subject to +5-5 Grade on Examination?

ice coverage · Jun 26, 2018

gsk8 said:
... The webinars will be available on the ISU Development Projects YouTube Channel. These webinars are intended to provide an in-depth introduction to the new GOE scales and will include video examples to illustrate the standards. Coaches and Skaters will find the information useful in addition to Judges and Referees. ...

OS said:
Oh great!! ... the judges will have as much training and qualification as anybody here who bothers to take up these webinars! ...

In reply to OS:

So you think it would be preferable for the ISU to make no effort to give Judges and Referees any explanation as to how +5 to -5 should be applied?

And preferable for every Judge and Referee to just randomly invent her/his own individual standards for +5 to -5?

Not preferable to me.

The webinar also is intended to be useful to Coaches and Skaters.

Would it be preferable for Coaches and Skaters to have no idea as to how to expect +5 to -5 will be applied?

Also not preferable to me.

gkelly · Jun 26, 2018

A judge who watches one webinar may have as much official training directly from the ISU about +5 to -5 as a fan who reads the ISU communications and watches the same webinar.

The judges also have years of experience applying the old GOE standards (and many of them years of 6.0 judging before that) at the level of their highest appointment and below.

At some point they will have to judge their first +5/-5 competition. It will probably not be at their highest level -- maybe not seniors, maybe not international. Whatever they do the first time will require some learning curve and consulting the written guidelines, but after the first event the next one will get easier and the next one after that even easier.

Just as skaters can use summer competitions to get mileage on new programs and in many cases new skills, judges can use summer competitions to get up to speed on the new rules. By the time they sit on a panel at an important competition, they will probably have judged hundreds of programs at various levels under the new rules -- maybe thousands for the most active judges, certainly thousands of elements.

How many fans can say the same?

They can also consult with each other and with referees before and after events to try to clarify questions about exactly what the new wording is supposed to mean or how it might apply to a specific unusual situation that arises in competition.

High-level officials may end up leading seminars for lower-level local judges.

A judge who doesn't get to judge many competitions each year and who will start with a more important one might want to practice with the new rules beforehand. Or not, depending how conscientious and how busy they are.

Sam-Skwantch · Jun 26, 2018

I see no reason for cynicism here because this is the right direction the ISU needs to go. It won’t be a magic fix because all change takes time to be fully implemented successfully but the more open and public the ISU becomes with its system the better. Over time the impact of these moves (I’m including the open to public streaming of Congress) will make subtle but noticeable changes. I’m actually impressed to see them addressing issues that irk some of us but think patience is key when assessing the effectiveness.

I’m not a big fan of the +/-5 GOE scale myself but I have to admit I like the way the ISU is trying to steer the judges into a similar direction and TBH I just really want to watch this :popcorn:

That said...I really hope the ISU continues and eventually starts to score and keep public stats on judges that address Bias, Error, and Consistency. We already know...we just need to know that they know that we know

Mathman · Jun 26, 2018

ice coverage said:
...And preferable for every Judge and Referee to just randomly invent her/his own individual standards for +5 to -5...?

I greatly expect that the judges will do as they have always done. Give high GOEs to jumps that they think are better than average and low GOEs to jumps that they think are worse.

Caroliza fan said:
Who or what is "Webinar"?!

A webinar is for when you are in a profession where you get credit for attending seminars to keep your skills up to date. You log in to the webinar and then come back to your computer an hour later to turn it off. Voila!

moriel · Jun 26, 2018

While i think it is great that ISU does their best to train the judges, I somehow think that maybe they should not release those things online.
I still have major trauma from watching the congress.

Neenah16 · Jun 26, 2018

There is really no reason to criticize this move. Streaming the congress and these webinars are steps in the right direction that we should encourage rather than attack. We have been asking for more transparency, so please stop complaining when we do get it. It may not be much or exactly what we wanted but it is still a positive thing.

I am personally looking forward to it as I want to see how they would explain the GOE bullets and what examples they would use. I think it would be useful for us to understand what it is they are trying to do and what they hope to achieve.

chopinskate · Jun 26, 2018

Neenah16 said:
There is really no reason to criticize this move.

What if I don't get the free coffee though? :/ This could just be a move to not have to buy too much coffee and spend even less money than they do on buying more cameras for the Technical Panel to use ($0).

CaroLiza_fan · Jun 26, 2018

chopinskate said:
A seminar on the web? (legitimately can't tell if you don't know it for real, or it's sarcasm)

Winnie_20 said:
a webinar is just a seminar on the web, nothing fancy, just a kewl newish word. ;-)

Mathman said:
A webinar is for when you are in a profession where you get credit for attending seminars to keep your skills up to date. You log in to the webinar and then come back to your computer an hour later to turn it off. Voila!

Thanks guys. Never came across the term before. And with there having been so many changes made at the Congress, I did think it was something new that somebody had come up with there.

But, it does make me think of something I often wonder - why do some people feel the need to invent new words that few people understand when there are other ways of saying it that most people would understand? Is it just to make them feel superior?

Because, I can tell you that it makes me feel inferior when I come across things on here that I don't understand. (Mainly abbreviations).

Getting back on topic, it does sound like a good idea to have something explaining to everybody just what is going on. Because there is that much being changed that I haven't a clue what the half of it is going to mean in real terms, i.e. how it is going to impact what we are watching.

CaroLiza_fan

Neenah16 · Jun 26, 2018

chopinskate said:
What if I don't get the free coffee though? :/ This could just be a move to not have to buy too much coffee and spend even less money than they do on buying more cameras for the Technical Panel to use ($0).

In the name of progress they would be giving vouchers instead :biggrin:

aname · Jun 26, 2018

OS said:
Oh great!! ... the judges will have as much training and qualification as anybody here who bothers to take up these webinars!

Really? A quick google search gave me info about a traditional ISU seminar for judges and referees only, held in the beginning of August. So, it's not like there's only one webinar and nothing else.

https://www.isu.org/docman-documents-links/isu-files/documents-communications/isu-communications/15961-isu-communication-2143/file

3. ISU Sponsored Seminars GOE + 5/-5 2018
These Seminars will be held in the frame of the Frankfurt Seminar July 1-8, 2018 (for details see the separate ISU Communication No. 2138 on the subject).
In order to accommodate the Judges’ education for the Grades of Execution being introduced, all Technical Committees will be conducting GOE Seminars.
Enrollment will be open to ISU Judges / ISU Referees ONLY. Those ISU Members not having Judges with the qualification of ISU will be allowed to send an International Judge. Each ISU Member may recommend 1-2 candidates to attend the seminars by using Appendix G. The final decision of acceptance will be made by the Vice-President of Figure Skating along with the Sport Directors and Technical Committees. Participants will be assigned to the specific seminars.

cohen-esque · Jun 26, 2018

For ISU judges only... International judges can be on the GP series. It’s frustrating they don’t get the same support but I suppose it’s fair that the ISU needs to prioritize the highest level of training for the highest level judges.

Andrea82 · Jun 26, 2018

cohen-esque said:
For ISU judges only... International judges can be on the GP series. It’s frustrating they don’t get the same support but I suppose it’s fair that the ISU needs to prioritize the highest level of training for the highest level judges.

Those attending the +/-5 seminar in Frankfurt are then required to hold a seminar in their own country to report the training received to national colleagues (including International judges).
A report from those national seminaries should be sent to Technical Committee with a list of judges who were present.

Sam-Skwantch · Jun 26, 2018

Andrea82 said:
Those attending the +/-5 seminar in Frankfurt are then required to hold a seminar in their own country to report the training received to national colleagues (including International judges).
A report from those national seminaries should be sent to Technical Committee with a list of judges who were present.

It would be interesting to broadcast these so we can see how the changes are being interpreted :popcorn:

Judges & Referees Webinar for GOE +5 to -5

gsk8

chopinskate

moriel

CaroLiza_fan

EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA

chopinskate

Winnie_20

OS

Sedated by Modonium

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605

gkelly

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

Mathman

moriel

Neenah16

chopinskate

CaroLiza_fan

EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA

Neenah16

aname

cohen-esque

Andrea82

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

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