Daisuke Takahashi to Return to Competition
- Thread starter Interspectator
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- Joined
- Nov 12, 2013
I have no idea about choreo, but in terms of music, my bet is on something modern and out-of-the-box. That should be fun, he has the talent to make bold choices work.
Actually, I came back here in a sort of penitent mood because I was worrying here yesterday about slots and backing for the lesser known skaters. But I appreciated what Daisuke had to say about them, especially about how their Nats performances inspired him and that he has no intention of being a 'hindrance' for younger skaters. Classy of him. :thumbsup:
Oh, how I wish he'd teach the 3A to those less fortunate in this particular field...
I think he'd make a great coach for young male skaters one day.Use the 'Multiquote This Message' button that's next to Reply With Quote. Works fine for me. :]
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2012
He even ditched new programs when he thought they didn't work. See Rock'n'Roll Medley/Moonlight Sonata. And as far as I understand it he will come back for this season only. No way it's going to be a warhorse. And if it is, it's going to be like his Swan Lake. Warhorse, reloaded.
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- Mar 7, 2015
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sigh.. we can never win
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2004
True. Criticizing Shoma is really Off Topic here but you know how popular Shomita is. :luv17:
Back on Topic. I am at work back to reality with an order to my day. This past weekend was like
I was thrown into another worldly reality with the Dai news.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2010
Uhmm sorry I spoilt the mood a little, but I think to make comparable analysis is completely valid even if not appreciated. Skaters take 1 step forward, 2 steps back all the time especially when use warhorses/safe choices/repeats, that is why skaters like Daisuke is a complete diamond.
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- Feb 4, 2012
Right... I need him to be a Yoda!!!!
Skating to Star Wars before it was cool..... :cool14:
This is 6.0 era.......before.....everything.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2010
I find the overreaction to call Shoma mini Daisuke rather touchy and funny... as if it is the first time it has been mentioned on the forum or anywhere - As if it is the worst possible criticism one can possibly have in this sport - to be known as the successor to the great Takahashi. Are you kidding? It is practically a compliment.
As for the repeats and warhorse, Shoma has not shown to have half of the artistic maverick as Takahashi. Nor has he managed to rise above the immitation stage to have developed his own original figure skating style/voice/language that warrants some of these PCS scores. As shown at last worlds, he could have had an absolute disaster, music timing completely off by the end, but his PCS still does not move from 9s. If you chose to play safe, and benefit from lenient calls and heavy Federation propping, don't be surprised there will always be purist call you up on it.
The generous 9s have all certainly made me the less sympathetic watcher, especially already receiving 94 in PCS in his 2nd season Pre-Olympics, something Hanyu or Patrick took years to achieve. To give you some idea, Dai's Blues for Klook at worlds 12 received 85 PCS only. In any case, Dai has always been judged to a higher and strict standard especially when he falters, which is how all skaters should be judged. The biggest deterrents to his comeback will be federation politics, inconsistent standards based on outdated benchmarking, more so than what how he actually did - starting from home. I sincerely hope he wouldn ends up like Wakaba next season, get lost in the shuffle despite superior performances/programs.
As for the repeats and warhorse, Shoma has not shown to have half of the artistic maverick as Takahashi. Nor has he managed to rise above the immitation stage to have developed his own original figure skating style/voice/language that warrants some of these PCS scores. As shown at last worlds, he could have had an absolute disaster, music timing completely off by the end, but his PCS still does not move from 9s. If you chose to play safe, and benefit from lenient calls and heavy Federation propping, don't be surprised there will always be purist call you up on it.
The generous 9s have all certainly made me the less sympathetic watcher, especially already receiving 94 in PCS in his 2nd season Pre-Olympics, something Hanyu or Patrick took years to achieve. To give you some idea, Dai's Blues for Klook at worlds 12 received 85 PCS only. In any case, Dai has always been judged to a higher and strict standard especially when he falters, which is how all skaters should be judged. The biggest deterrents to his comeback will be federation politics, inconsistent standards based on outdated benchmarking, more so than what how he actually did - starting from home. I sincerely hope he wouldn ends up like Wakaba next season, get lost in the shuffle despite superior performances/programs.
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2017
People are quite obviously not bothered because they think being compared to Daisuke is a bad thing. People are bothered because there's this tendency to call younger skaters "copies" of old ones in a way that downplays the younger skater's individuality and reduces them to "imitator" rather than their own person. For example, when Tara Lipinski said Deniss Vasiljevs was "a little Lambiel" I was a little bothered but not outright offended... until she followed that up with "but a copy is never as good as the original."
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2004
Why can't we stay on topic in this thread. Shoma, Shoma, Shoma what is up with that. If Shoma's PCS want to be discussed someone can
always start a new thread. JMO
Dai is serious
https://twitter.com/kuru_rei_yu/status/1013703768746045441
always start a new thread. JMO
Dai is serious
https://twitter.com/kuru_rei_yu/status/1013703768746045441
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2012
It's not calling him a Mini Daisuke that's the problem, Shoma loves Daisuke and never denied that. But it is hard to deny that he has outgrown that, and no matter what one might think of his jumps, he has a technical arsenal that Daisuke never had, because in that earlier era (which started for Daisuke in the 6.0 times), that wasn't needed.
I don't know for me personally a program like Loco is not a Daisuke program, sorry. Daisuke was always underscored in PCS even in his heyday. Nathan Chen is now getting also over 90 PCS. You shouldn't compare because we live in different times now. It's similar to currency, speaking in financial terms. It's simply a currency fall. We're getting new rules and different judging anyway, next season and let's just wait until Daisuke competed a few times. We don't know what he's going to do, what his form and technical arsenal is going to be like and to say he's going to be held back and underscored just because Shoma is there, is premature.
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2014
Sigh...so many posts in unrelated threads dedicated to criticizing the component marks that the judges give or the calls that the technical panel makes. We get it but we already have numerous threads that are dedicated to discussing various component marks, new scale of values, etc. that we don't need to spend 3+ pages discussing those type of topics here. In this thread, we should be considerate that many posters aren't here for that type of discussion.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2010
Well somebody better change the thread title into a Dai fanfest only then, since the discussion on competition and competitors are apparently not welcomed in a figures skating board.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2017
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
Why are people getting hung up over Dai's PCS without even seeing him skate or seeing his programs? He could be super competitive, he could not be... but the point is he's skating for the enjoyment and challenge and it's too early to jump to conclusions and how this should affect other skaters' marks.
Also while Dai has been underscored in some competitions, he's also been generously rewarded on PCS in spite of tech issues.
I mean, at his most recent competition, the 2014 Olympics, where he was 4th SP/6th LP/6th overall, he had the 12th best TES in the SP (and 3rd highest PCS). In the LP he had the 13th best TES (and 2nd highest PCS).
Also while Dai has been underscored in some competitions, he's also been generously rewarded on PCS in spite of tech issues.
I mean, at his most recent competition, the 2014 Olympics, where he was 4th SP/6th LP/6th overall, he had the 12th best TES in the SP (and 3rd highest PCS). In the LP he had the 13th best TES (and 2nd highest PCS).
Let's take out Shoma from this discussion, but it will really be a bizarre and somewhat peculiar situation in Daisuke's case if he's suddenly held up in PCS mainly based on reputation because during his competitive days, as you've mentioned, he was mostly underscored in that department (2010 Vancouver and 2012 WC as example top of my head). It's a different situation with Carolina and Patrick where their PCS have been put into question since 2008 and 2011-2018 respectively. If the skaters nowadays are given 9s even when their programs don't really deserve it, I wonder what kind of conversation we will be having if Daisuke hit those 9s too or when he could only get 8s despite a lights out performance (moreso considering he experienced exactly that). I think what OS wants to say (I'm not exactly sure if this is their point) is that it will be truly telling about how arbitrary and manufactured the PC scoring is if we have another veteran not getting those 9s or least getting higher scores when we are defining PCS nowadays as simply about reputation rankings and mostly connected to TES. If he is held up because of reputation, what does that say to the system? If he is held down because his TES doesn't match the younger skaters, what does that say to the system?
Again, Daisuke's return serves a unique example here when it comes to how program components are being marked nowadays because even though he is mostly known for his artistry, his PCS didn't really reflect that kind of reputation and doesn't have the history of being held up for that reason; yet if he is held up in this area based on reputation, is it really wrong or is just there to balance the playing field? How will ISU deal with it? I wouldn't want him to be held up in PCS and I wouldn't want him to be low-balled as well, but it's an interesting thought process.
However, that doesn't take away the fact that we don't know for sure yet, or if Daisuke will even reach the international arena to be able to make this kind of what-if scenario into solid conversation. So in the end, truce?
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2012
https://twitter.com/nobutaro1001/status/1013962799368638464
Nobunari Oda's Twitter reads "Gooo Dai-chan! I'll make a comeback together with you! -Just kidding!"
No kidding Nobu. Do it. Do it now!
Nobunari Oda's Twitter reads "Gooo Dai-chan! I'll make a comeback together with you! -Just kidding!"
No kidding Nobu. Do it. Do it now!
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