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Thread: Injury prevention doesn’t seem high priority

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by twirlingblades View Post
    I actually did my masters thesis on injuries in synchronized skating, with both injury history and jumping testing. I think concussions are the silent issue, as it is in many sports.
    Concussions are, by definition, unseen. So it's funny how many people say things like "I don't ever see concussions on the ice. I think the issue is XYZ"
    There are opinions and then there's science. And the science says that concussions are an issue in figure skating.

    As a skate mom, there's no way I'm going to unreasonably risk my skater's chances of having a fulfilling life after skating by ignoring the practical and reasonable advice of experts. I am raising a human, not an Olympic athlete. If he goes to the Olympics, he's STILL going to do MORE with his life than just that.

    (As a sidenote, some skate parents are raising bullies. That's a whole other issue regarding injury prevention and unseen injuries, but maybe something we should talk about too.)

    Quote Originally Posted by GrandmaCC View Post

    Ultimately It’s really not the job of a federation is it, though? I’m with Meghan Duhamel here with the whole “if you can safely do a quad, then you should be allowed to and rewarded” viewpoint.
    I understand and mostly agree. My own skater has aspirations to do a quad axel and I'm not going to try to prevent him from trying when he's ready.
    I am acutely aware of the difficulty in getting a passionate skater to stop practicing and thus to prevent overuse injury. I literally often schedule skating sessions deliberately so that he's forced off the ice by the zamboni because sometimes he just. won't. stop. jumping. So... I know it's a challenge to try to 'enforce' safety guidelines all the time.

    But I also am a pragmatic optimist and I can easily find ways that things can be improved.

    My main reason for starting this thread is that I see proposed or accepted rule changes to competitions and the justification given is about safety, but it just seems like it's lip service. It seems like they just want to change a rule for whatever reason and the 'safety issue' is a convenient and accepted rationale but isn't the REAL reason for a change.

  2. #32
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    About helmets, I just noticed that there is a discussion going on in the Lutz Corner about padded headbands. Maybe that would be a step worth considering.

    https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...added-headband

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by VegMom View Post
    Concussions are, by definition, unseen. So it's funny how many people say things like "I don't ever see concussions on the ice. I think the issue is XYZ"
    There are opinions and then there's science. And the science says that concussions are an issue in figure skating.

    As a skate mom, there's no way I'm going to unreasonably risk my skater's chances of having a fulfilling life after skating by ignoring the practical and reasonable advice of experts. I am raising a human, not an Olympic athlete. If he goes to the Olympics, he's STILL going to do MORE with his life than just that.

    (As a sidenote, some skate parents are raising bullies. That's a whole other issue regarding injury prevention and unseen injuries, but maybe something we should talk about too.)


    I understand and mostly agree. My own skater has aspirations to do a quad axel and I'm not going to try to prevent him from trying when he's ready.
    I am acutely aware of the difficulty in getting a passionate skater to stop practicing and thus to prevent overuse injury. I literally often schedule skating sessions deliberately so that he's forced off the ice by the zamboni because sometimes he just. won't. stop. jumping. So... I know it's a challenge to try to 'enforce' safety guidelines all the time.

    But I also am a pragmatic optimist and I can easily find ways that things can be improved.

    My main reason for starting this thread is that I see proposed or accepted rule changes to competitions and the justification given is about safety, but it just seems like it's lip service. It seems like they just want to change a rule for whatever reason and the 'safety issue' is a convenient and accepted rationale but isn't the REAL reason for a change.
    Ahhh, one of those “let’s come up with a way to change things to our liking, and make it sound as though we’re being responsible instead of self serving” things...got it. My bad
    politics...how I’ve made it to adult life without recognising these things instantly makes me wonder about my mental acuity.

    Are coaches, parents, athletes all consulted when instituting these changes? Or are there athlete reps or anything? Is the athlete rep required to consult with other skaters or just elected and given the role of *voice*?

    It seems weird to me how many top skaters genuinely have no idea as to why something has been instituted, what impact it will have, so on...

    Love the Zamboni scheduling, by the way!

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    But for a long time, the official explanation was not safety but rather the objection that a backflip is not a skating move because you don't land on an edge. When Surya Bonaly started landing backflips on an edge and even doing a backflip+triple Salchow combination, they had to drop that objection and just go with the injury thing.
    I thought the objection was that the takeoff isn't on an edge, not the landing. After all, jumps are differentiated by the takeoff not by the landing.

  5. #35
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    I've been watching the seminar they were streaming this spring I guess where one of the medics presented results of his work with Savchenko- Massot, discussing this and that of the injuries and there was a part where viewers could ask the questions. One of those was related to lots of injuries top quad jumpers had during the Olympic season and what could be done to prevent that.
    The answers were: 1) they need to train their body before going into quads jumps, they need to develop their skills gradually- first your muscles are ready, then you do the jump. Also- develop the body in such a way that every muscle has the same workload. Is it possible? When most skaters actually have injuries and health issues due to the rules and technique that prevent from building muscles form both sides or your body equally? No answer to that. They don't have any methodical basis developed on the level of ISU to be taught to the coaches. Coaches learn by themselves, creating a large amount of injuried students who were not lucky enough to learn the right technique or have a coach and qualified medical assistance to prevent injuries and injuries aggravation. 2) they still can't reach the common opinion on how the boots industry should react to the change of technique and requirements that come with figure skating talent and rules development. What they actually do (coaches and skaters) is trying what boot industry provides and not vice versa. Boot industry doesn't collaborate with skaters, coaches, nobody from ISU (because they apparently have more important issues to deal with) on a large scale which could lead to creation of the boots models tat would serve certain issues and prevent injuries. And not all the skaters can afford to have their boots done on a personal order.
    At the end of the seminar some said- why on earth no one from those who set the rules in ISU come to our seminars to learn what health issue we medical staff have to deal with? It is crucial that they realize what their creativeness might cause on a short and long run. Sure sport is not a way to stay top healthy. But it shouldn't create younger invalids as well.
    It was largely disappointing for me to learn that ISU doesn't really plan to take medical issue into a serious account, wouldn't study injuries and their causes, wouldn't produce set or recommendation to the coaches, sort of how-to, wouldn't collaborate with boots and blades productions. It was sort of a sad picnic on a side of a skating rink.
    What they think they did was change of the 1.1 reward for jumps in a second part of a program and lessen the time for LP for Men and Pairs, cutting one of the elements. Shame. That is not what should be done in order to prevent the injuries. It's much more complicated that this.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrento View Post
    It was largely disappointing for me to learn that ISU doesn't really plan to take medical issue into a serious account, wouldn't study injuries and their causes
    To be fair, it would take millions of dollars and long-term collaboration with at least one major research hospital and university, and preferably several around the world, in order to do such a study - not to mention many, many years. The ISU simply doesn't have the money or the academic relationships necessary to fund it. The impetus for such a study could still come from them, but the money would have to come from elsewhere, and I can't think of a likely source off the top of my head.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harriet View Post
    To be fair, it would take millions of dollars and long-term collaboration with at least one major research hospital and university, and preferably several around the world, in order to do such a study - not to mention many, many years. The ISU simply doesn't have the money or the academic relationships necessary to fund it. The impetus for such a study could still come from them, but the money would have to come from elsewhere, and I can't think of a likely source off the top of my head.
    Money, right. I don't think there's no medical institution around the entire globe that is not fundamentally interested in such studies. I think ISU is just not interested in researching of the matter. There are many funds and trusts that could invest in such studies- it's just that ISU don't know how to find the investors. What they do is diminish the interest to the sport by having biased judging which they are trying to improve by change in the rules and not judges proper education and control.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amei View Post
    I'm always reminded of this clip whenever this conversation comes up (1:45) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CILS...&t=0s&index=97
    Oh god no, I was there. I still can't watch a lasso lift without cringing. Peter Carruthers in the announcers booth with his head in his hands... Her just LYING THERE for what seemed like minutes until their coach shuffles out on the ice to get to her. Sorry, didn't mean to hijack.

  9. #39
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    As long as the emphasis is on more, more, more quads and triple/triples, I don't think there is an emphasis on injury. Same with ugly tricks and lifts in Pairs that only have danger going for them.

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