Hi everyone, I'm looking for some tips/advice because I cannot get a straight position in even a waltz jump. :confused2: I tend to have my weight forward, meaning that when I jump up, my torso is slanted forwards if that makes sense. I'm only working on rotation off ice, but I have the same issue, and I can't get a full rotation. When I (sort of) straighten up, I feel like my weight is backwards and that I will fall backwards. I have been working on waltz jumps for about 2 months and the issue isn't improving. Maybe I'm just not a natural jumper but it's so frustrating not even seeing a little bit of improvement. So any advice?? What helped you?
Keeping straight in jumps?
- Thread starter Ange
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- Jan 9, 2017
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First of all, what has your coach said and offered as technique improvement advice?
Before you start reading this: like Ic3Rabbit said: listen to what advice your coach has given you first. What I wrote below is what I think should help.
Remember that a jump is a jump before it's a jump with rotation. I would start by working on just jumping on the spot and make sure to jump UP and not bend at the waist. When you bend to jump, make sure you bend in the ankles and not the hips.
Then start doing some bunny hops and make sure here that again, think of jumping up and not forward. Make sure to keep your back straight (without actually leaning backwards because the result of that is just not fun).
This is when I would start doing some waltz jumps. Once you have straightened your upper body on straight jumps and bunny hops, you should use pretty much the same takeoff for a waltz jump. The only difference is that you need your arms to pull back and in as you jump. Again, remember that this is a JUMP before it's a turn. The rotation on a waltz jump will come on its own, don't try to force it. This means that when you pass your free leg (right leg if you are a ccw skater), make sure your hip closes and this is what will generate the rotation that you need. Don't jump straight in front and then crank a half turn in the air. This will make you try harder at turning, more than at jumping.
So arms pulled back so you can jump straight, hip closes as you go into the air to generate the rotation. Jump, then turn.
Remember that a jump is a jump before it's a jump with rotation. I would start by working on just jumping on the spot and make sure to jump UP and not bend at the waist. When you bend to jump, make sure you bend in the ankles and not the hips.
Then start doing some bunny hops and make sure here that again, think of jumping up and not forward. Make sure to keep your back straight (without actually leaning backwards because the result of that is just not fun).
This is when I would start doing some waltz jumps. Once you have straightened your upper body on straight jumps and bunny hops, you should use pretty much the same takeoff for a waltz jump. The only difference is that you need your arms to pull back and in as you jump. Again, remember that this is a JUMP before it's a turn. The rotation on a waltz jump will come on its own, don't try to force it. This means that when you pass your free leg (right leg if you are a ccw skater), make sure your hip closes and this is what will generate the rotation that you need. Don't jump straight in front and then crank a half turn in the air. This will make you try harder at turning, more than at jumping.
So arms pulled back so you can jump straight, hip closes as you go into the air to generate the rotation. Jump, then turn.
My coach keeps telling me to jump up and tall. I’ve asked another coach as well and neither seem to understand the issue I’m actually having - even I don’t. I just can’t achieve the adjustments the coaches suggest. When my coach says I did a better jump off ice, my weight feels so far back that I wouldn’t dare do that on ice?? Maybe the whole issue is that I’m scared to jump? But it just doesn’t feel right. So I am obviously going wrong somewhere along the line. When I rotate on the spot, I jump up straight and but then I bend at the torso when I bring my arm in - otherwise I feel like I’m jumping backwards. On the waltz jump, I’m not bringing my leg around properly either, probably because I’m not jumping up tall.
Thank you coucou84 for the advice of bending at the ankles rather than hips! I will double check that I do this next time I’m at the rink working on it. This could be my issue.
Would this also be a sign of weakness in some muscle group perhaps? I thought it would improve over time but I’m not seeing any major changes. Or perhaps I’m impatient haha
Thank you coucou84 for the advice of bending at the ankles rather than hips! I will double check that I do this next time I’m at the rink working on it. This could be my issue.
Would this also be a sign of weakness in some muscle group perhaps? I thought it would improve over time but I’m not seeing any major changes. Or perhaps I’m impatient haha
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- Jan 9, 2017
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Do you do off-ice exercises to strengthen your core, glutes etc? If not, start because it will help you alot. The rest of it is just working with your coach to correct other little things that throw you off: Do you have access to Dartfish or harness? That could help you a bunch.
Good luck!
Good luck!
Thank you for the suggestion about the harness - didn't even think of that! I will be enquiring whether the rink has one I can use with a coach. I doubt they have Dartfish.
I do one pilates session and one off-ice session weekly, skating about 3 times per week. I think pilates is really helpful for glutes and I probably should even bump it up to two sessions but then something else has got to give, as I don't want to overdo with the exercise and hinder my progress. Do you have any advice for how much on ice vs. off ice work skaters should be doing when they're beginning to work on waltz jumps and spins?
As someone who doesn't have the greatest core strength, I usually think of it as being tall and tight and having a straight back posture, more than engaging my core. But that's just me and I know most people like to think about tightening their core.
Don't try to force the rotation, that's really the key to getting a straight jump. Your hip passing and closing as you jump up will be more than enough for you to get the rotation.
Wow this is very interesting. I do really focus on tightening my core and pulling in tight like the coaches say and this may be what is ruining the jump as a whole. I naturally curve forward (very slightly) when I tense my core. Hmm very good point :thumbsup: I'm quite excited to try your suggestions... I reckon my coach is at a bit of a loss why I can't stay straight in a waltz jump!
A lot of people in general fitness exercise their front abs when they think of 'core' - that might be why you curve forward. In skating, the back muscles and obliques are as or more important than the front abs.
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2014
I'm just a beginner skater myself so I'm no jump expert. I have a problem of looking down at the ice and when I do that it completely throws off my jumps, so I was wondering if you were thinking at all about where your head is while jumping. I know for me just a really minor adjustment of where I'm looking can completely fix my jump. It's something that's so easy to overlook.
Trust me.... you're not the only one. I'm doing doubles and I STILL look down on jumps lol
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- Jan 14, 2008
Before jumping, bend your knees and ANKLES so that your chest is over your knee, which is over your toes. When you take off, point all 10 toes really hard. Even though it's called an "edge jump", the last thing to leave the ice is your toepick and the first thing to contact the ice on landing is the toepick of the landing foot. I only give this advice because so many skaters learning the waltz jump don't realize this and coaches don't think to mention it because they assume it's obvious.
Do more of this if possible. I'd aim for at least 3 off ice workouts per week. I do a lot more than that and it helps a lot. I weight train 3-4 times per week and aim for at least 3 days per week of yoga. Adding in additional yoga has really helped with core and stability strength as well as flexibility.
Omg... I think you summed up my issue with my waltz jump (and all my other jumps) perfectly. It makes so much sense now.
I will give that a go on my next session.
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2008
Omg... I think you summed up my issue with my waltz jump (and all my other jumps) perfectly. It makes so much sense now.
I will give that a go on my next session.
These are the 4 stages of the waltz jump "rotation", which you will see is very minimal and controlled (reverse everything if you are a clockwise jumper):
(1) Take off forward (facing "north"), right leg extending forward
(2) At the top of the jump, rotate your upper body 90 degrees--or 1/4 turn--to the left (now facing "west"). Upper body ONLY. Your legs stay where they are so you end up in a straddle position.
(3) Now rotate your upper body another 90 degrees--1/4 turn--to the left (now facing "south"). Upper body ONLY; don't move your hips or legs! Now you are facing your left leg, and are backwards.
(4) Now pass the left leg straight back in a scissoring motion and land on the right.
Omg... I think you summed up my issue with my waltz jump (and all my other jumps) perfectly. It makes so much sense now.
I will give that a go on my next session.
Glad it helped! Yes, it's the same for the salchow (pivot on the ice until you're basically facing forward and it's the same takeoff as a waltz jump, close your hip as you take off) and the toe loop (put the toe pick in, lift the right leg if you're a ccw skater, pivot till you're facing forward and same take off as a waltz jump)
Good luck with your jumps
