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Thread: Stepanova and Bukin: “It’s a four-year game”

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lester View Post
    Is suing the answer for everything :D
    These Olympics are in the past, it doesn't matter now. It only matters to make certain Bukin will have no problems with the IOC in the future.
    Suing can solve lots of problems! Lol. I totally believe the only way to know if Bukin will be allowed in Beijing is to find out why he was banned from Pyeongchang!

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    you know, you don't need to be caught doping to transgress rules of the WADA... for instance, Bukin could have simply failed to report his location or not be present when agents had said they would come in.. and that's it.. those infractions can lead to a suspension as well... so perhaps the IOC had reasonable doubts and information of that nature : not enough to ban from the sport, so ISU doesn't do a thing about it...... but enough to not invite him at the games... i felt weird about that too when it happened... but whatever it is, some people have reasons and they have decided not to reveal them.

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    I don't really like the idea of suing everything, even though it seemed to work out for some of the banned athletes, or ones that had to give away their earlier medals (and eventually didn't). However, it's still leaves one with a bad taste in the mouth about the Sochi Olympics (sadly). Having said that, no one ever accused Ivan of anything. They just didn't invite him, and everybody could just speculate. He could sue about the impact on his reputation (although I think the fact that many former Olympic champions vouched for him, not just his father or even only Russians, would put paid to that more than a lawsuit with all the negatives involved), but I rather like it that he and his partner just wish to move forward. It's exactly as 4everchan noted earlier, and nobody will ever take away his disappointment at not being invited. Whatever the outcome of a sue. Even if he won, it wouldn't be satisfactory because it can never turn time back. He still would have missed the Olympics. And that's a shame. But I don't think that many of the skating fans actually thought he in particular was guilty of anything. Well, n=1, I know I never did. I am just real pleased they are looking forward, and say things I might even disagree with. That's the Spirit. Keep it up!

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4everchan View Post
    you know, you don't need to be caught doping to transgress rules of the WADA... for instance, Bukin could have simply failed to report his location or not be present when agents had said they would come in.. and that's it.. those infractions can lead to a suspension as well... so perhaps the IOC had reasonable doubts and information of that nature : not enough to ban from the sport, so ISU doesn't do a thing about it...... but enough to not invite him at the games... i felt weird about that too when it happened... but whatever it is, some people have reasons and they have decided not to reveal them.
    If Bukin wasn’t present when he was ordered to be he would know that. If he failed to report his location he would know that. So those things are impossible because no one knows what he did wrong! So the two things you mention are impossible.

    Quote Originally Posted by ladyjane View Post
    I don't really like the idea of suing everything, even though it seemed to work out for some of the banned athletes, or ones that had to give away their earlier medals (and eventually didn't). However, it's still leaves one with a bad taste in the mouth about the Sochi Olympics (sadly). Having said that, no one ever accused Ivan of anything. They just didn't invite him, and everybody could just speculate. He could sue about the impact on his reputation (although I think the fact that many former Olympic champions vouched for him, not just his father or even only Russians, would put paid to that more than a lawsuit with all the negatives involved), but I rather like it that he and his partner just wish to move forward. It's exactly as 4everchan noted earlier, and nobody will ever take away his disappointment at not being invited. Whatever the outcome of a sue. Even if he won, it wouldn't be satisfactory because it can never turn time back. He still would have missed the Olympics. And that's a shame. But I don't think that many of the skating fans actually thought he in particular was guilty of anything. Well, n=1, I know I never did. I am just real pleased they are looking forward, and say things I might even disagree with. That's the Spirit. Keep it up!
    The fact is what got him not invited from Pyeongchang could lead to ioc not accepting him for Beijing! It’s very possible he is doing exactly what got him not invited to Beijing right now! He could be passing all his tests for doping but doing something wrong that’s not that severe but doesn’t raise to the level of an official sanction! So if ioc hires forneyron in 2022 to just go through Russians again she could see that Bukin never stopped doing something wrong and not invite him again. But no ever told him because the whole process is secret. So there is just no reason to believe Bukin will be allowed in Beijing because he was never told what he did wrong and could be doing it right now. So the Russian federation has to sue ioc and formeyron to find out why they didn’t invite him because he could Still be doing it right now.

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    I feel like ever since they were not invited to the OG their raising game sort of faded. Sure there was an only competition left afterwards but it felt like all their kudos they were getting from judges two past seasons were gone. And I am not sure if they could up their game and make it strong again. The reason for that non invitation is still shady and I feel like they will not get enough support from judges because of that.
    And I really like them the most out of all Dance couples from Russia competing at the Senior level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrento View Post
    I feel like ever since they were not invited to the OG their raising game sort of faded. Sure there was an only competition left afterwards but it felt like all their kudos they were getting from judges two past seasons were gone. And I am not sure if they could up their game and make it strong again. The reason for that non invitation is still shady and I feel like they will not get enough support from judges because of that.
    And I really like them the most out of all Dance couples from Russia competing at the Senior level.
    I totally agree and it’s because everyone believes he was banned for doping because ioc and forneyron haven’t said otherwise.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    If Bukin wasn’t present when he was ordered to be he would know that. If he failed to report his location he would know that. So those things are impossible because no one knows what he did wrong! So the two things you mention are impossible.
    lance armstrong said for many years he was clean and had no idea why people were thinking otherwise... this is why for me, perhaps he has no clue... fair enough... but perhaps there is something that was never revealed and that he prefers not revealing..

    let me give you other examples : one famous Canadian speed skater.. and we are talking Olympic Champion here Clara Hughes... HUGE HUGE anti-doping representative... well one day, early in her career, but still after her first successes, she ttested positive for some sort of ephedrine... she has no idea how it got in her body... she was still suspended for 3 months. It apparently was not made "public" she served her suspension in silence but nobody knew. She was advise to shut up and never talk about it. It happens more often than we think... why? Sponsors losses? Tarnishing of the sport? etc... for silly mistakes or small infractions... or even people getting caught for recreational drugs like cocaine or amphetamines, sometimes, stories are not revealed to the public.

    so.. if someone with that profile was suspended and was told not to mention it... it could very well be the case that Bukin had some sort of similar infraction that the Russian Fed decided to put on MUTE... and that could have led to the non-invitation...but since it's "ON MUTE" it's easier to play the victim instead of saying..

    "yeah guys... i know why i wasn't invited but i cannot tell you cause i just cannot..."

    especially in a judged sport???? might as well shut up ...

    OR yes... it is possible that he was just not invited because the IOC doesn't like his face... i am just saying that it's not because he says he doesn't know that he is saying the truth

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4everchan View Post
    lance armstrong said for many years he was clean and had no idea why people were thinking otherwise... this is why for me, perhaps he has no clue... fair enough... but perhaps there is something that was never revealed and that he prefers not revealing..

    let me give you other examples : one famous Canadian speed skater.. and we are talking Olympic Champion here Clara Hughes... HUGE HUGE anti-doping representative... well one day, early in her career, but still after her first successes, she ttested positive for some sort of ephedrine... she has no idea how it got in her body... she was still suspended for 3 months. It apparently was not made "public" she served her suspension in silence but nobody knew. She was advise to shut up and never talk about it. It happens more often than we think... why? Sponsors losses? Tarnishing of the sport? etc... for silly mistakes or small infractions... or even people getting caught for recreational drugs like cocaine or amphetamines, sometimes, stories are not revealed to the public.

    so.. if someone with that profile was suspended and was told not to mention it... it could very well be the case that Bukin had some sort of similar infraction that the Russian Fed decided to put on MUTE... and that could have led to the non-invitation...but since it's "ON MUTE" it's easier to play the victim instead of saying..

    "yeah guys... i know why i wasn't invited but i cannot tell you cause i just cannot..."

    especially in a judged sport???? might as well shut up ...

    OR yes... it is possible that he was just not invited because the IOC doesn't like his face... i am just saying that it's not because he says he doesn't know that he is saying the truth
    I see what you are saying. Russia knows Bukin is a doper and won’t sue ioc and fourneyron because by not inviting Bukin but not saying why they are helping Russia cover up the fact that Bukin has a doping record that they have kept secret so he can keep competing. Bukin is just putting on a big show and of course no should take his denials seriously because all dopers deny they dope! His punishment for being a doper was missing the Olympics! So he’s been punished. He doesn’t have to be publicly exposed because he’s been punished! And they have all agreed that because he was punished for doping he can lie and say he doesn’t know why.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    I see what you are saying. Russia knows Bukin is a doper and won’t sue ioc and fourneyron because by not inviting Bukin but not saying why they are helping Russia cover up the fact that Bukin has a doping record that they have kept secret so he can keep competing. Bukin is just putting on a big show and of course no should take his denials seriously because all dopers deny they dope! His punishment for being a doper was missing the Olympics! So he’s been punished. He doesn’t have to be publicly exposed because he’s been punished! And they have all agreed that because he was punished for doping he can lie and say he doesn’t know why.
    lol

    not quite.. i am saying that there are minor infractions that sometimes are not disclosed... and that could have happened a long time ago... and been not an issue back then .. he could have served a 3 month sentence silently... but the IOC was clear that they wouldn't invite anyone who has failed a test before.. so that could have come back to haunt them..

    BUT i am not saying anything like that.. I am saying that there are a lot more possibilities out there and that one of them is that he is not telling the truth as it wouldn't help his case

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4everchan View Post
    lol

    not quite.. i am saying that there are minor infractions that sometimes are not disclosed... and that could have happened a long time ago... and been not an issue back then .. he could have served a 3 month sentence silently... but the IOC was clear that they wouldn't invite anyone who has failed a test before.. so that could have come back to haunt them..

    BUT i am not saying anything like that.. I am saying that there are a lot more possibilities out there and that one of them is that he is not telling the truth as it wouldn't help his case
    I understand what you are saying! Bukin was a doper. He served a sentence for doping. Ioc found out about it and banned him from Pyeongchang. Now Bukin says he doesn’t know why and no one really has an interest in calling him out because he was banned from an Olympics! He got an enormous punishment. So he can say he passed all his pre Olympic tests and that be a fact! He doesn’t know he was banned from Pyeongchang because he passed all the pre Olympic tests! And who is going to ask about his old failed tests? That’s info you found out about but no one really has an interest in confirming.

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    only a possibility...

    but where there is smoke....

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