Stepanova and Bukin: “It’s a four-year game” | Golden Skate

Stepanova and Bukin: “It’s a four-year game”

gsk8

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The 2018 Olympic season was a roller coaster for Russian ice dancers Alexandra Stepanova and Ivan Bukin. The Muscovites started well into the season, establishing themselves as the number two team behind fellow countrymen and multiple national champions Ekaterina Bobrova and Dmitri Soloviev. They took their second bronze medal at the 2018 ISU European Figure Skating Championships on home ice in Moscow and were selected for the Olympic team.


Then, just after Europeans, the ice dancers were told that the International Olympic Committee (IOC) did not “invite” Bukin to PyeongChang. Following the doping scandals around Russian sports, the IOC had banned the Russian Olympic Committee from the Games in South Korea, but invited athletes individually and they competed as “Olympic Athletes from Russia.”


As if this wasn’t bad enough, what made it worse was that the skaters were never given an explanation.

“Just so you know, they (anti-doping control officers) came eight times to me in the last three months before the Olympics,” said 24-year-old Bukin. “All tests were negative and they just didn’t let me go (to the Olympic Games). For what reason? Give at least an explanation. But it was just like, ‘Your’re not invited. That’s it.’ There was no way to argue.”

More...
Kudos to this team for staying positive throughout this devastating mess. :curse:Here's hoping they have a great 2018-19 season!:2thumbs:
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
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I, too, wish them well. The Olympic mess is over with - whatever that was about, it doesn't matter now.

I've enjoyed their skating for a while, and I much prefer them to other Russian teams.
 

yoloaxel

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I hope they have a great season, I think they have so much potential! The OG fiasco was such a mess.
 

dorispulaski

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It was just wrong that they were never given an explanation: this institutional silence made it seem as though the whole slate of uninvited Russians were chosen at random, or worse, with some kind of underhandedness involved.

Peter Tchernyshev indeed always had a good feel for the blues. I am looking forward to seeing Alexandra and Ivan perform the blues FD he has choreographed for them!
 

WeakAnkles

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It was just wrong that they were never given an explanation: this institutional silence made it seem as though the whole slate of uninvited Russians were chosen at random, or worse, with some kind of underhandedness involved.

Peter Tchernyshev indeed always had a good feel for the blues. I am looking forward to seeing Alexandra and Ivan perform the blues FD he has choreographed for them!

The lack of transparency is beyond disgraceful. Who is watching the overseers? Shame on the ISU for that.

On the other hand, I cannot disagree more with Bukin's assertion that ice dance was "stagnating a bit." I think that's a more accurate assessment of them as a team for the last quad than for the discipline as a whole. And I say that as someone who actually does like them (for the most part).
 

Mattieu

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The lack of transparency is beyond disgraceful. Who is watching the overseers? Shame on the ISU for that.

On the other hand, I cannot disagree more with Bukin's assertion that ice dance was "stagnating a bit." I think that's a more accurate assessment of them as a team for the last quad than for the discipline as a whole. And I say that as someone who actually does like them (for the most part).

Cruel but true
 

VIETgrlTerifa

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Jul 26, 2003
I can't help but think that the stagnating line was a criticism of Papadakis/Cizeron and the Montreal style of ice dance that is dominating right now. We know Stepanova made some quotes in the past that showed she wasn't very impressed with the direction of ice dance. I guess for them, they have a different style and philosophy of ice dance and I guess it's frustrating that a team they were able to beat as juniors is now considered unbeatable for reasons they don't understand.
 

dorispulaski

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Re the comments by their coaches:
Svinin & Zhuk said:
“The creative step sequence makes it possible to perform with more emotion,” Svinin said. “I think the changes will make ice dance more interesting for the spectators.” Zhuk likes the fact that the twizzles are now judged separately, so if one skater makes a mistake, not as many points are lost as long as the partner’s twizzles are good.

I am not crazy about loosening the rules that forced skaters to develop equal skills. The original reason for implementing rules of this type was to ensure that we would not have teams where the inadequacy of one team member would be completely ignored because the other team member was excellent-think Fusar-Polo/Margaglio. I think dance is better when teams are well matched. The beautiful synchronicity is part of both the charm and musicality of the performance.

For me, dance is first about the music, and the movement. I like the dancers to interpret the music, to become one with the music. Excess emotion in their performance often distracts from that oneness and from the music for me.

Bukin said:
“It’s a four-year-game,” Bukin noted. “It will be an important season, the beginning of a new stage. Everyone will try to surprise, I’m sure. All these (new) rules push people for changes and that will be very good, because we (ice dance in general) were stagnating a bit.”


...
On the other hand, I cannot disagree more with Bukin's assertion that ice dance was "stagnating a bit." I think that's a more accurate assessment of them as a team for the last quad than for the discipline as a whole. And I say that as someone who actually does like them (for the most part).

I can't help but think that the stagnating line was a criticism of Papadakis/Cizeron and the Montreal style of ice dance that is dominating right now. We know Stepanova made some quotes in the past that showed she wasn't very impressed with the direction of ice dance. I guess for them, they have a different style and philosophy of ice dance and I guess it's frustrating that a team they were able to beat as juniors is now considered unbeatable for reasons they don't understand.

There were significant rule changes after the 2014 Olympic quad. For one thing, Timing rules were weakened. Lift rules were weakened. Twizzles rules were changed. Any rule change helps some teams and hinders others.

The 2014 rule changes aided the Montreal school, and have induced an unfortunate sameness in programs as other teams try to emulate that style.

New rules are apt to be a good thing, if only because they reshuffle things.
 

VIETgrlTerifa

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There were significant rule changes after the 2014 Olympic quad. For one thing, Timing rules were weakened. Lift rules were weakened. Twizzles rules were changed. Any rule change helps some teams and hinders others.

The 2014 rule changes aided the Montreal school, and have induced an unfortunate sameness in programs as other teams try to emulate that style.

New rules are apt to be a good thing, if only because they reshuffle things.

Very good point. To me, it's not the style of music that made the programs similar but that all the footwork sequences became very similar with long held edges and less dancing. The fact that GOE and PCS were becoming so maxed out that teams ranked 3-8 were so close together that level calls became the determining factor for a team to stay in medal contention. Because of that, every team made sure all the steps, turns, and edges were held out so the tech panel could see the edges clearly. I noticed that a lot of the more dancing parts of a footwork sequence beginning in the 2015-2016 season were taken out by Worlds and the edges themselves became the focus and that's how it's been since. Montreal was much better equipped for that because they specialize in teaching depth of edge so they were able to choreograph more with the steps. Every other school was playing catch up, including Igor who used to be renown for being able to get his teams to hit the levels. But then the callers started getting pickier and had so much power and knew it. It was obvious that calls were sometimes frustrating for teams not from Montreal because they thought they did hit the edges correctly. I know some Russian interviews mentioned that. Not to mention the restrictive rules about holds (which I get because open skating is much easier), tempo changes in the FD, having the elements match the music, etc. all played a factor into the sort of music being chosen because some music was easier to choreograph around those rules.

That said, I really loved the past four years in ice dance and felt we had strong and very musical and interesting programs. I just understand why ice dance is being dictated in a new direction after 2018 because there does need to be room for actual dance again.
 

Lester

Piper and Paul are made of magic dust and unicorns
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It's a four year game for sure but will they be invited in 4 years?
 

gmyers

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Mar 6, 2010
It’s so sad they can’t look at the huge success of Montreal and not want to join in and be coached by Dubreuil. Because they’re not they choose to hate it and call anyone doing Montreal stagnating and pretend that even though it’s successful and they are not it’s actually inferior to what they are doing. Why not recognize it’s what all the judges love and move to Montreal so they can be successful too?

It’s so funny! This is what the Americans and Canadians believed under 6.0. They never doubted that they were superior to the Russian teams. Everyone agreed in North American establishments that b/b k/p g/p l/a and K/o were not better than w/m or b/s or b/k. The Russians are where the North Americans were under 6.0!
 

Tatjana

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The lack of transparency is beyond disgraceful. Who is watching the overseers? Shame on the ISU for that.

The ISU had nothing to do with the Olympic mess. The IOC was intransparent and didn't even bother to give Ivan an explanation why he was not "invited". The ISU never banned him from any of their events.
 

gmyers

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The ISU had nothing to do with the Olympic mess. The IOC was intransparent and didn't even bother to give Ivan an explanation why he was not "invited". The ISU never banned him from any of their events.

ISU could have sued IOC for information to see if it should ban Bukin too! If IOC banned Bukin because they felt they had proof Bukin was a doper why shouldn’t ISU have that too? Or sue fourneyron!
 

Tatjana

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Jun 26, 2011
ISU could have sued IOC for information to see if it should ban Bukin too! If IOC banned Bukin because they felt they had proof Bukin was a doper why shouldn’t ISU have that too? Or sue fourneyron!

Honestly, it would have been pointless. The IOC "owns" the Olympic Games and the ISU has no influence. Some athletes went to CAS, but they were unsuccessful. I feel very bad for Ivan and also Ksenia Stolbova and the IOC would have owed them at least an explanation.
 

Tatjana

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ISU could have sued IOC for information to see if it should ban Bukin too! If IOC banned Bukin because they felt they had proof Bukin was a doper why shouldn’t ISU have that too? Or sue fourneyron!

Honestly, it would have been pointless. The IOC "owns" the Olympic Games and the ISU has no influence. Some athletes went to CAS, but they were unsuccessful. I feel very bad for Ivan and also Ksenia Stolbova and the IOC would have owed them at least an explanation.
Actually the IOC even said that being not invited doesn't necessarily mean that you are a doper. But why they would exclude people that are not guilty of doping is a mystery to me.
 

gmyers

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Honestly, it would have been pointless. The IOC "owns" the Olympic Games and the ISU has no influence. Some athletes went to CAS, but they were unsuccessful. I feel very bad for Ivan and also Ksenia Stolbova and the IOC would have owed them at least an explanation.
Actually the IOC even said that being not invited doesn't necessarily mean that you are a doper. But why they would exclude people that are not guilty of doping is a mystery to me.
But this is why IOC or even Russian figure skating federation should sue! They could say they don’t want to have a champion or a potential champion who was banned for doping or if not explicitly banned for doping then is widely to be a doper because of their being banned from Pyeongchang! The question is do people think Bukin is a doper because he was banned? The answer is yes! But because ioc was not explicit on why they are forced to allow him to compete! It’s unfair to Bukin, isu and RFSF
 

WeakAnkles

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Aug 1, 2011
The ISU had nothing to do with the Olympic mess. The IOC was intransparent and didn't even bother to give Ivan an explanation why he was not "invited". The ISU never banned him from any of their events.

Thank you for the clarification. Blame should be accurate.

Shame on you IOC for your lack of transparency. Shame! Shame! Shame!

Phew! I feel better -- and more accurate -- now.
 

ladyjane

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Jun 26, 2012
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Netherlands
To be honest, I never thought Bukin used dope. I still don't, and this interview actually confirms this thought. Glad, he's taking it all as is, he knows he got the support not just from his father but from so many other skaters. Just got mixed up in politicking, and, don't get me wrong here, a doping issue which actually had nothing to do with him and his partner. I might not agree with his stance on the stagnation of ice dance (really?), but I do think he got a bad hand on this. And, just wonderful how they react to it all. Good for both of them!
 

Lester

Piper and Paul are made of magic dust and unicorns
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Dec 7, 2014
But this is why IOC or even Russian figure skating federation should sue! They could say they don’t want to have a champion or a potential champion who was banned for doping or if not explicitly banned for doping then is widely to be a doper because of their being banned from Pyeongchang! The question is do people think Bukin is a doper because he was banned? The answer is yes! But because ioc was not explicit on why they are forced to allow him to compete! It’s unfair to Bukin, isu and RFSF

Is suing the answer for everything :D
These Olympics are in the past, it doesn't matter now. It only matters to make certain Bukin will have no problems with the IOC in the future.
 

pandatours

On the Ice
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Feb 12, 2015
I was always confused by the Ivan/Olympics situation because there was not much information at the time and there still isn’t. It’s very frustrating, but I’m glad they supported each other and are looking towards the future.

Anyway I love this team and I am so excited to see their new programs. I loved B/S but I felt like in the last two years they just didn’t have the same sparkle as they did in previous seasons while S/B have been steadily improving, both technically and with their presence on ice.
 
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