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Thread: Daria Panenkova left Eteriís group?

  1. #281
    Bona Fide Member Shayuki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surimi View Post
    But I'm quite curious if there's ever going to be a student of Eteri who sticks with her past their teenage years. It sure sounds like a stressful environment there.
    I have a feeling that the results of certain skaters for the next few seasons will have a significant impact on that.

  2. #282
    Jesus take the wheel! RemyRose's Avatar
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    Quick, look at Shelepen's instastories. Daria is all in it. Not on the ice but still. And we know from pictures Shelepen is (was) with Tsareva at camp.

  3. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewdokia View Post
    The reason for that is pretty obvious: most skaters unfortunately left her late when serious problems already had set in.

    Beside her strong medal count Eteri holds another record among elite coaches: so far every skater training who has reached elite skating level (i.e. who at least won a medal at JGPF / JW or a GP-medal in seniors) with her after injury / struggles set in either

    ē never got back to former strength and / or
    ē changed coaches and / or
    ē in worst case even had to retire.

    I have not seen such a record from any other coach on this level yet. Every other coach on Eteriís coaching level has at least once managed to bring his / her skaters back from injuries / struggles. Some of them multiple times (e.g. Caroll, Orser, Mishin, Moskvina, Tarasova, Ö). Not Eteri.
    It's kind of a ridiculous record because Eteri is also the coach who is training more skaters than everyone else (more skaters obviously mean more injuries), and unlike Raf where you can clearly see how he doesn't care about his B-C tier skaters, Eteri tries to achieve the best they can with every one of her students, she wants to make them all competitive, otherwise why are you even skating? (and this is what Raf also used to say in the past)

    I think people nowadays are giving way too much crap to Eteri, but it's very easy to forget that the russian dominance in ladies figure skating of the past 3-4 years at least, is like 80% done by Eteri Tutberidze, without Eteri, Russia won't be as successful.

    Most of her "old" skaters used to be not all that talented, i look at skaters like Erokhov, how much he improved. I don't think he would have ever won Junior Worlds with another coach.

    But it reveals the secret of her success: squeezing out of her students as much as possible in one, two or maximum three years and when they are burned out / injured, she moves on the next. Itís then up to other coaches to deal with the problems of her former skaters - like Buyanova had to deal with Adianís and now with Polinaís back problems. So blame her for having less success.

    And to camouflage that tactics, Eteri is not shy to attack her former students for laziness, etc. once they leave / had to retire. But obviously enough people still buy it.


    Just compare how Buyanova handles Arturís current growths sprint and related back issues --> no jumping and competitions in order not to risk his long term perspective. Now compare how Eteri handled it with Adian and Polina --> ignore and jump, jump, jump.
    Yeah watch out how is that going to affect his consistency.

    Practice is everything in figure skating, the less you work the more unstable are your elements, in fact Buyanova's skaters are known for being all very inconsistent.

    Honestly she in a position where she doesn't even need to push her students to do more, cause CSKA huge inflation will always help her to guarantee at least one skater at Europeans and Worlds every single year, so why even bother?

    But then you look at what she achieved as a coach in all these years (remember she started in the 90s, Eteri in 2007 in Russia), with all these resources and with such a huge advantage, and it's basically only Adelina's gold medal at Sochi.

    No World medals from her students in seniors, i believe also no gold at europeans, and no gold at GPF.

    Not all her skaters have back problems.

  4. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolstoj View Post
    Yeah watch out how is that going to affect his consistency.

    Practice is everything in figure skating, the less you work the more unstable are your elements, in fact Buyanova's skaters are known for being all very inconsistent.
    Does Danielian not practice jumps at all or are his jumps simply too unstable due to the growth spurt which means no competitions? Temporary inconsistency is better than what happened to Adian. You can't just ignore physiology, at least not for long. If he is in too much pain, or forbidden from jumping by doctors than he shouldn't jump.

    Erokhov's had lots of injuries, he is hardly an example of how Eteri is doing it right on that particular front. Thankfully he seems better now.

  5. #285
    Jesus take the wheel! RemyRose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vorravorra View Post
    Does Danielian not practice jumps at all or are his jumps simply too unstable due to the growth spurt which means no competitions? Temporary inconsistency is better than what happened to Adian. You can't just ignore physiology, at least not for long. If he is in too much pain, or forbidden from jumping by doctors than he shouldn't jump.

    Erokhov's had lots of injuries, he is hardly an example of how Eteri is doing it right on that particular front. Thankfully he seems better now.
    We don't know what is going on with Danielian. There is only speculation.

  6. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolstoj View Post
    It's kind of a ridiculous record because Eteri is also the coach who is training more skaters than everyone else (more skaters obviously mean more injuries)
    It is indeed a ridiculous record, as more skaters should theoretically result in a bigger chance to bring at least one skater back after difficulties. Thatís actually the point and what differentiates Eteri from all other A-Level coaches with similar success in terms of medal count: once a skater reaches elite level and difficulties set in, you seem to be done if trained by her. If you argue more skaters lead to more injuries then consequently as a rule more injuries should also lead to more comeback stories.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tolstoj View Post
    Eteri tries to achieve the best they can with every one of her students, she wants to make them all competitive, otherwise why are you even skating?
    If Eteriís goal would be to maximize success of her skaters and not the overall medal count, she would be interested in long-term careers and not squeezing out maximum in a short time. Paradoxically her approach in the long run does not lead to more competitiveness and sometimes even to early retirement of her skaters. Letís take Tsurskaya and Sotskova: who was more competitive in early juniors? Tsurskaya. And who is now? Sotskova. So despite the greatness of Eteri, Buyanova in the long run managed to produce better results with a less talented skater.

    But who cares about Tsurskayaís fate in team Tutberidze, when others like Alina, Trusova or Kostornaya are climbing up the ranks. Now itís Buyanova who has to take care of a skater who came to her with serious health problems and will probably be blamed for being less successful with Polina than Eteri by Eteriís fans.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tolstoj View Post
    I think people nowadays are giving way too much crap to Eteri, but it's very easy to forget that the russian dominance in ladies figure skating of the past 3-4 years at least, is like 80% done by Eteri Tutberidze, without Eteri, Russia won't be as successful.
    And so what? Being successful justifies unethical behavior? Bashing former students? Not caring about the athleteís health? Itís by the way easier to be successful if you use methods other coaches would simply refrain from due to ethical reasons, like pressuring a severely injured underage athlete to compete.

    Mishin with his skaters for some time dominated male skating just in a similar way than Eteri. Still many of his students had long-lasting careers and managed to come back after struggling with results / injuries.

    Also if you argue that 80 % of Russiaís success in ladies was done by Eteri, most of it can be attributed to one particular skater: Medvedeva. A skater who like Plushenko is just stable by nature and probably would have become successful with many other coaches as well. Medvedeva in particular is an example that being consistent is not only related to intense training. Even after having to take off several weeks from jump practice she still kept consistency. But it tells something that Eteri didnít even bother to take care of her golden goose and to cure Zheniaís injury timely, but pressured an injured, very successful athlete to keep up the training intensity as a role model head to head against healthier younger athletes till the GP series started. Thatís zero interest in the skater, or his long term- competitiveness. But it was of course best way to squeeze out maximum medal count for Russia at the OG in the ladies event. Who knows if Alina had progressed so fast, had Eteri allowed Zhenia to skip the GP and to take care of her injury already earlier in autumn.



    Quote Originally Posted by Tolstoj View Post
    Most of her "old" skaters used to be not all that talented, i look at skaters like Erokhov, how much he improved. I don't think he would have ever won Junior Worlds with another coach.
    Erokohov is actually not an example of a consistent skater and he would hardly have won JW the years before against the likes of Uno or Zhou. He won in a very weak competition and was by the way also competing against many skaters being much younger than him. Beside that Erokohov was quite sick some years ago (heart problems seem to be a red line even for Eteri) and simply not on her radar. He was not a high level skater that time and thus not part of that training regimen where problems quite often set in (e.g. intense jump training even during growth sprints). Actually being less talented than e.g. Adian in the eyes of the coaches and not being able to train at full force due to sickness when his body was developing might have saved Erokhov, allthough as it had been pointed out, he still had a lot of injuries afterwards once the coaching team put more focus on him.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tolstoj View Post
    Yeah watch out how is that going to affect his consistency.

    Practice is everything in figure skating, the less you work the more unstable are your elements, in fact Buyanova's skaters are known for being all very inconsistent.
    • How consistent was Julia after Sochi despite numerous run throughs when still being with Eteri? With finishing 9th at RN?
    • How consistent was Adian after back problems set in when still being with Eteri? (JW LP disaster? Nepala disaster in the short? Skating a complete mess in Zagreb in a luckily week field? And I donít even mention in detail his last competition.)
    • How consistent was Sergei after WC 2015, though he was still training with Eteri?
    • How consistent was Polina T. after JW in 2016 when still training with Eteri?
    • How consistent was Ilia Skirda after 2016 when still training with Eteri?
    • How consistent did Samoliev become with Eteri once back problems set in? Finishing last at RN? He by the way came to Eteri at age 17 with a healthy back, less than a year later he thought of quitting due to severe back problems. The only thing where heís got consistent with Eteri is having to train with a corset now.


    The consistency of Eteriís skaters is actually bit of an urban legend if you look at it in the long term. And thatís not so surprising: if a severely injured skater continues to train, you might keep consistency in the short run, but in the long run you will either end up with an even longer break to cure, effecting consistency even more or in the worst case with retirement.

    Buyanova might not have the most consistent skaters, but to be fair, other coaches also were not able to develop consistency with them --> see Denis (RIP Denis ) and Frank Carol, Elene G and Brian Orser or Maxim Kotvun with Gontcharenko. Some skaters just canít withstand pressure, no matter how hard they train. Moris Kvitelashvili for example is just in the same league of consistency as Maxim Kovtun.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tolstoj View Post
    Honestly she in a position where she doesn't even need to push her students to do more, cause CSKA huge inflation will always help her to guarantee at least one skater at Europeans and Worlds every single year, so why even bother?
    Oh dear, Iím already so sick of that whinny poor Eteri against powerful Buyanova. Poor Sambo against powerful CSKA. Buyanova sure had a lot of political power on her side some years ago, certainly more than Eteri. But we are talking about RF Ė established coaches as a rule have more power than young upcoming ones. But right now Eteri does actually enjoy pretty much the same privileges than Buynova. For example compare Sergeiís PCS at this yearís RN and internationally and now do the same for Erokhov. Now whose scores were inflated? Or how it had been agreed prior to the competition that Adian should make the Euros team in 2015 no matter how he skated / placed at Nats. Gives you a hint whose skater was guaranteed a spot in the team (though Adian in the end thankfully skated well enough to make the team without any ugly deals.)

    Or all that whining when Adian and Sergei left Sambo in 2016. It ended up with a rule that any medals they won till the end of season 2017/18 would be splitted and count for Sambo and CSKA. While medal count was agreed to be shared, Sambo surely didnít share any costs which incurred for CSKA when trying to cure Adianís back. And Sergei also first needed to recuperate his health when starting at CSKA. Still all medals he won after leaving counted also for Sambo. Which is particularly ridiculous as Sergei is not a skater where you can argue Sambo has raised him and invested in him from early years on. So which club here got the cherries on the cake? Half of the medal count without investing a single cent in that skater any longer? Certainly not CSKA.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tolstoj View Post
    But then you look at what she achieved as a coach in all these years (remember she started in the 90s, Eteri in 2007 in Russia), with all these resources and with such a huge advantage, and it's basically only Adelina's gold medal at Sochi.
    Buyanova has less success as she simply has a smaller group and thus less students. Second reason is that in relations to her athletes she simply isnít prepared to walk over death bodies for success.

    And itís amusing you mention Eteri started coaching in Russia only in 2007. What prevented her from returning earlier? Buyanova has always been coaching in Russia, even during the most difficult times, after state bankruptcy of Russia. Itís totally odd to mention that coaches having started coaching in Russia earlier than Eteri didnít have that much success, when Eteri during that dark times chose to conveniently coach in the U.S. and only decided to comeback in 2007 when conditions started to improve. Nobody prevented her from returning earlier. And nobody prevented her to have success in the U.S. Like Rafael. Actually this shows just again that Eteriís system only works when everything is running smooth, when you have a well working system, lot of athletes being available as ďmaterialĒ and lot of government funding to provide her material with a good base and to enable skaters and herself to finance that sport well already at junior level.

    And why always focusing on Buyanova? Mishin for example was just as successful in men than Eteri is now with ladies for some period of time. And at times where one could only dream about the conditions Eteri has currently.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tolstoj View Post
    Not all her skaters have back problems.
    Now you must be really kidding to bring as an argument for Eteri that NOT ALL of her skaters have back problems?

  7. #287
    On the Ice LucyH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewdokia View Post
    It is indeed a ridiculous record, as more skaters should theoretically result in a bigger chance to bring at least one skater back after difficulties. Thatís actually the point and what differentiates Eteri from all other A-Level coaches with similar success in terms of medal count: once a skater reaches elite level and difficulties set in, you seem to be done if trained by her. If you argue more skaters lead to more injuries then consequently as a rule more injuries should also lead to more comeback stories.



    If Eteriís goal would be to maximize success of her skaters and not the overall medal count, she would be interested in long-term careers and not squeezing out maximum in a short time. Paradoxically her approach in the long run does not lead to more competitiveness and sometimes even to early retirement of her skaters. Letís take Tsurskaya and Sotskova: who was more competitive in early juniors? Tsurskaya. And who is now? Sotskova. So despite the greatness of Eteri, Buyanova in the long run managed to produce better results with a less talented skater.

    But who cares about Tsurskayaís fate in team Tutberidze, when others like Alina, Trusova or Kostornaya are climbing up the ranks. Now itís Buyanova who has to take care of a skater who came to her with serious health problems and will probably be blamed for being less successful with Polina than Eteri by Eteriís fans.




    And so what? Being successful justifies unethical behavior? Bashing former students? Not caring about the athleteís health? Itís by the way easier to be successful if you use methods other coaches would simply refrain from due to ethical reasons, like pressuring a severely injured underage athlete to compete.

    Mishin with his skaters for some time dominated male skating just in a similar way than Eteri. Still many of his students had long-lasting careers and managed to come back after struggling with results / injuries.

    Also if you argue that 80 % of Russiaís success in ladies was done by Eteri, most of it can be attributed to one particular skater: Medvedeva. A skater who like Plushenko is just stable by nature and probably would have become successful with many other coaches as well. Medvedeva in particular is an example that being consistent is not only related to intense training. Even after having to take off several weeks from jump practice she still kept consistency. But it tells something that Eteri didnít even bother to take care of her golden goose and to cure Zheniaís injury timely, but pressured an injured, very successful athlete to keep up the training intensity as a role model head to head against healthier younger athletes till the GP series started. Thatís zero interest in the skater, or his long term- competitiveness. But it was of course best way to squeeze out maximum medal count for Russia at the OG in the ladies event. Who knows if Alina had progressed so fast, had Eteri allowed Zhenia to skip the GP and to take care of her injury already earlier in autumn.





    Erokohov is actually not an example of a consistent skater and he would hardly have won JW the years before against the likes of Uno or Zhou. He won in a very weak competition and was by the way also competing against many skaters being much younger than him. Beside that Erokohov was quite sick some years ago (heart problems seem to be a red line even for Eteri) and simply not on her radar. He was not a high level skater that time and thus not part of that training regimen where problems quite often set in (e.g. intense jump training even during growth sprints). Actually being less talented than e.g. Adian in the eyes of the coaches and not being able to train at full force due to sickness when his body was developing might have saved Erokhov, allthough as it had been pointed out, he still had a lot of injuries afterwards once the coaching team put more focus on him.




    • How consistent was Julia after Sochi despite numerous run throughs when still being with Eteri? With finishing 9th at RN?
    • How consistent was Adian after back problems set in when still being with Eteri? (JW LP disaster? Nepala disaster in the short? Skating a complete mess in Zagreb in a luckily week field? And I donít even mention in detail his last competition.)
    • How consistent was Sergei after WC 2015, though he was still training with Eteri?
    • How consistent was Polina T. after JW in 2016 when still training with Eteri?
    • How consistent was Ilia Skirda after 2016 when still training with Eteri?
    • How consistent did Samoliev become with Eteri once back problems set in? Finishing last at RN? He by the way came to Eteri at age 17 with a healthy back, less than a year later he thought of quitting due to severe back problems. The only thing where heís got consistent with Eteri is having to train with a corset now.


    The consistency of Eteriís skaters is actually bit of an urban legend if you look at it in the long term. And thatís not so surprising: if a severely injured skater continues to train, you might keep consistency in the short run, but in the long run you will either end up with an even longer break to cure, effecting consistency even more or in the worst case with retirement.

    Buyanova might not have the most consistent skaters, but to be fair, other coaches also were not able to develop consistency with them --> see Denis (RIP Denis ) and Frank Carol, Elene G and Brian Orser or Maxim Kotvun with Gontcharenko. Some skaters just canít withstand pressure, no matter how hard they train. Moris Kvitelashvili for example is just in the same league of consistency as Maxim Kovtun.



    Oh dear, Iím already so sick of that whinny poor Eteri against powerful Buyanova. Poor Sambo against powerful CSKA. Buyanova sure had a lot of political power on her side some years ago, certainly more than Eteri. But we are talking about RF Ė established coaches as a rule have more power than young upcoming ones. But right now Eteri does actually enjoy pretty much the same privileges than Buynova. For example compare Sergeiís PCS at this yearís RN and internationally and now do the same for Erokhov. Now whose scores were inflated? Or how it had been agreed prior to the competition that Adian should make the Euros team in 2015 no matter how he skated / placed at Nats. Gives you a hint whose skater was guaranteed a spot in the team (though Adian in the end thankfully skated well enough to make the team without any ugly deals.)

    Or all that whining when Adian and Sergei left Sambo in 2016. It ended up with a rule that any medals they won till the end of season 2017/18 would be splitted and count for Sambo and CSKA. While medal count was agreed to be shared, Sambo surely didnít share any costs which incurred for CSKA when trying to cure Adianís back. And Sergei also first needed to recuperate his health when starting at CSKA. Still all medals he won after leaving counted also for Sambo. Which is particularly ridiculous as Sergei is not a skater where you can argue Sambo has raised him and invested in him from early years on. So which club here got the cherries on the cake? Half of the medal count without investing a single cent in that skater any longer? Certainly not CSKA.




    Buyanova has less success as she simply has a smaller group and thus less students. Second reason is that in relations to her athletes she simply isnít prepared to walk over death bodies for success.

    And itís amusing you mention Eteri started coaching in Russia only in 2007. What prevented her from returning earlier? Buyanova has always been coaching in Russia, even during the most difficult times, after state bankruptcy of Russia. Itís totally odd to mention that coaches having started coaching in Russia earlier than Eteri didnít have that much success, when Eteri during that dark times chose to conveniently coach in the U.S. and only decided to comeback in 2007 when conditions started to improve. Nobody prevented her from returning earlier. And nobody prevented her to have success in the U.S. Like Rafael. Actually this shows just again that Eteriís system only works when everything is running smooth, when you have a well working system, lot of athletes being available as ďmaterialĒ and lot of government funding to provide her material with a good base and to enable skaters and herself to finance that sport well already at junior level.

    And why always focusing on Buyanova? Mishin for example was just as successful in men than Eteri is now with ladies for some period of time. And at times where one could only dream about the conditions Eteri has currently.



    Now you must be really kidding to bring as an argument for Eteri that NOT ALL of her skaters have back problems?
    Your post deserves a medal

  8. #288
    Bona Fide Member Fluture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LucyH View Post
    Your post deserves a medal
    Gold.

  9. #289
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    So, since this move has been confirmed, has her new coach been announced??

  10. #290
    All Hail Empress Eteri Spirals for Miles's Avatar
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    Supposedly Anna Tsareva since it's too late to leave Sambo 70 this season.

  11. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirals for Miles View Post
    Supposedly Anna Tsareva since it's too late to leave Sambo 70 this season.
    Yes apparently sheís joined Annaís group, but I didnít know that Polina Shelepen was in this group? I know that Polina is a trainer now with her own group. Perhaps they were at a common summer camp?
    Photo 1
    Photo 2
    Photo 3

  12. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoicMR View Post
    Yes apparently sheís joined Annaís group, but I didnít know that Polina Shelepen was in this group? I know that Polina is a trainer now with her own group. Perhaps they were at a common summer camp?
    Photo 1
    Photo 2
    Photo 3
    And in a poetic twist, an Eteri student, seems to have "poached" an Eteri student.

  13. #293
    On the Ice 50 Words for Snow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glassanimal View Post
    And in a poetic twist, an Eteri student, seems to have "poached" an Eteri student.

  14. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by LucyH View Post
    Your post deserves a medal
    Thank you. Though I wish discussions like these wouldnít be necessary and that skaters from Eteriís team could like so many others simply switch coaches quiet and in peace.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoicMR View Post
    Yes apparently sheís joined Annaís group, but I didnít know that Polina Shelepen was in this group? I know that Polina is a trainer now with her own group. Perhaps they were at a common summer camp?
    Photo 1
    Photo 2
    Photo 3
    Thank you for the info & the pics. I really like the idea of Dasha being coached by Polina S., actually much more than by Tsarevna. Polina knows which system Dasha comes from, so she has already a picture about Dashaís strength and weaknesses. Plus Polinaís skating style was a bit similar to Dashaís: strong and powerful. I think it would be much easier between these two to develop a common understanding.
    In addition Iíd be very happy for Polina if Dasha would be her first elite-level student. However I wonder about the cooperation with Tsarevna: Polina already had her own group of young students at CSKA. So switching clubs just to become a Co-coach doesnít make much sense to me? To me it also looks like it was more a sporadic cooperation during a skating camp?

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