Daria Panenkova left Eteri’s group? | Page 15 | Golden Skate

Daria Panenkova left Eteri’s group?

Shayuki

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
But I'm quite curious if there's ever going to be a student of Eteri who sticks with her past their teenage years. It sure sounds like a stressful environment there. :slink:
I have a feeling that the results of certain skaters for the next few seasons will have a significant impact on that.
 

RemyRose

YOLO
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2005
Country
United-States
Quick, look at Shelepen's instastories. Daria is all in it. Not on the ice but still. And we know from pictures Shelepen is (was) with Tsareva at camp.
 

Tolstoj

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
The reason for that is pretty obvious: most skaters unfortunately left her late when serious problems already had set in. :(

Beside her strong medal count Eteri holds another record among elite coaches: so far every skater training who has reached elite skating level (i.e. who at least won a medal at JGPF / JW or a GP-medal in seniors) with her after injury / struggles set in either

• never got back to former strength and / or
• changed coaches and / or
• in worst case even had to retire.

I have not seen such a record from any other coach on this level yet. Every other coach on Eteri’s coaching level has at least once managed to bring his / her skaters back from injuries / struggles. Some of them multiple times (e.g. Caroll, Orser, Mishin, Moskvina, Tarasova, …). Not Eteri. :noshake:

It's kind of a ridiculous record because Eteri is also the coach who is training more skaters than everyone else (more skaters obviously mean more injuries), and unlike Raf where you can clearly see how he doesn't care about his B-C tier skaters, Eteri tries to achieve the best they can with every one of her students, she wants to make them all competitive, otherwise why are you even skating? (and this is what Raf also used to say in the past)

I think people nowadays are giving way too much crap to Eteri, but it's very easy to forget that the russian dominance in ladies figure skating of the past 3-4 years at least, is like 80% done by Eteri Tutberidze, without Eteri, Russia won't be as successful.

Most of her "old" skaters used to be not all that talented, i look at skaters like Erokhov, how much he improved. I don't think he would have ever won Junior Worlds with another coach.

But it reveals the secret of her success: squeezing out of her students as much as possible in one, two or maximum three years and when they are burned out / injured, she moves on the next. It’s then up to other coaches to deal with the problems of her former skaters - like Buyanova had to deal with Adian’s and now with Polina’s back problems. So blame her for having less success. :rolleye:

And to camouflage that tactics, Eteri is not shy to attack her former students for laziness, etc. once they leave / had to retire. But obviously enough people still buy it. :palmf:


Just compare how Buyanova handles Artur’s current growths sprint and related back issues --> no jumping and competitions in order not to risk his long term perspective. Now compare how Eteri handled it with Adian and Polina --> ignore and jump, jump, jump. :gaah:

Yeah watch out how is that going to affect his consistency.

Practice is everything in figure skating, the less you work the more unstable are your elements, in fact Buyanova's skaters are known for being all very inconsistent.

Honestly she in a position where she doesn't even need to push her students to do more, cause CSKA huge inflation will always help her to guarantee at least one skater at Europeans and Worlds every single year, so why even bother?

But then you look at what she achieved as a coach in all these years (remember she started in the 90s, Eteri in 2007 in Russia), with all these resources and with such a huge advantage, and it's basically only Adelina's gold medal at Sochi.

No World medals from her students in seniors, i believe also no gold at europeans, and no gold at GPF.

Not all her skaters have back problems.
 

vorravorra

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 9, 2016
Yeah watch out how is that going to affect his consistency.

Practice is everything in figure skating, the less you work the more unstable are your elements, in fact Buyanova's skaters are known for being all very inconsistent.
Does Danielian not practice jumps at all or are his jumps simply too unstable due to the growth spurt which means no competitions? Temporary inconsistency is better than what happened to Adian. You can't just ignore physiology, at least not for long. If he is in too much pain, or forbidden from jumping by doctors than he shouldn't jump.

Erokhov's had lots of injuries, he is hardly an example of how Eteri is doing it right on that particular front. Thankfully he seems better now.
 

RemyRose

YOLO
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2005
Country
United-States
Does Danielian not practice jumps at all or are his jumps simply too unstable due to the growth spurt which means no competitions? Temporary inconsistency is better than what happened to Adian. You can't just ignore physiology, at least not for long. If he is in too much pain, or forbidden from jumping by doctors than he shouldn't jump.

Erokhov's had lots of injuries, he is hardly an example of how Eteri is doing it right on that particular front. Thankfully he seems better now.

We don't know what is going on with Danielian. There is only speculation.
 

ewdokia

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 16, 2014
It's kind of a ridiculous record because Eteri is also the coach who is training more skaters than everyone else (more skaters obviously mean more injuries)
It is indeed a ridiculous record, as more skaters should theoretically result in a bigger chance to bring at least one skater back after difficulties. That’s actually the point and what differentiates Eteri from all other A-Level coaches with similar success in terms of medal count: once a skater reaches elite level and difficulties set in, you seem to be done if trained by her. If you argue more skaters lead to more injuries then consequently as a rule more injuries should also lead to more comeback stories.


Eteri tries to achieve the best they can with every one of her students, she wants to make them all competitive, otherwise why are you even skating?
If Eteri’s goal would be to maximize success of her skaters and not the overall medal count, she would be interested in long-term careers and not squeezing out maximum in a short time. Paradoxically her approach in the long run does not lead to more competitiveness and sometimes even to early retirement of her skaters. Let’s take Tsurskaya and Sotskova: who was more competitive in early juniors? Tsurskaya. And who is now? Sotskova. So despite the greatness of Eteri, Buyanova in the long run managed to produce better results with a less talented skater.

But who cares about Tsurskaya’s fate in team Tutberidze, when others like Alina, Trusova or Kostornaya are climbing up the ranks. Now it’s Buyanova who has to take care of a skater who came to her with serious health problems and will probably be blamed for being less successful with Polina than Eteri by Eteri’s fans. :rolleye:


I think people nowadays are giving way too much crap to Eteri, but it's very easy to forget that the russian dominance in ladies figure skating of the past 3-4 years at least, is like 80% done by Eteri Tutberidze, without Eteri, Russia won't be as successful.

And so what? Being successful justifies unethical behavior? Bashing former students? Not caring about the athlete’s health? It’s by the way easier to be successful if you use methods other coaches would simply refrain from due to ethical reasons, like pressuring a severely injured underage athlete to compete. :slink:

Mishin with his skaters for some time dominated male skating just in a similar way than Eteri. Still many of his students had long-lasting careers and managed to come back after struggling with results / injuries.

Also if you argue that 80 % of Russia’s success in ladies was done by Eteri, most of it can be attributed to one particular skater: Medvedeva. A skater who like Plushenko is just stable by nature and probably would have become successful with many other coaches as well. Medvedeva in particular is an example that being consistent is not only related to intense training. Even after having to take off several weeks from jump practice she still kept consistency. But it tells something that Eteri didn’t even bother to take care of her golden goose and to cure Zhenia’s injury timely, but pressured an injured, very successful athlete to keep up the training intensity as a role model head to head against healthier younger athletes till the GP series started. That’s zero interest in the skater, or his long term- competitiveness. But it was of course best way to squeeze out maximum medal count for Russia at the OG in the ladies event. Who knows if Alina had progressed so fast, had Eteri allowed Zhenia to skip the GP and to take care of her injury already earlier in autumn.



Most of her "old" skaters used to be not all that talented, i look at skaters like Erokhov, how much he improved. I don't think he would have ever won Junior Worlds with another coach.

Erokohov is actually not an example of a consistent skater and he would hardly have won JW the years before against the likes of Uno or Zhou. He won in a very weak competition and was by the way also competing against many skaters being much younger than him. Beside that Erokohov was quite sick some years ago (heart problems seem to be a red line even for Eteri) and simply not on her radar. He was not a high level skater that time and thus not part of that training regimen where problems quite often set in (e.g. intense jump training even during growth sprints). Actually being less talented than e.g. Adian in the eyes of the coaches and not being able to train at full force due to sickness when his body was developing might have saved Erokhov, allthough as it had been pointed out, he still had a lot of injuries afterwards once the coaching team put more focus on him.


Yeah watch out how is that going to affect his consistency.

Practice is everything in figure skating, the less you work the more unstable are your elements, in fact Buyanova's skaters are known for being all very inconsistent.

  • How consistent was Julia after Sochi despite numerous run throughs when still being with Eteri? With finishing 9th at RN?
  • How consistent was Adian after back problems set in when still being with Eteri? (JW LP disaster? Nepala disaster in the short? Skating a complete mess in Zagreb in a luckily week field? And I don’t even mention in detail his last competition.)
  • How consistent was Sergei after WC 2015, though he was still training with Eteri?
  • How consistent was Polina T. after JW in 2016 when still training with Eteri?
  • How consistent was Ilia Skirda after 2016 when still training with Eteri?
  • How consistent did Samoliev become with Eteri once back problems set in? Finishing last at RN? He by the way came to Eteri at age 17 with a healthy back, less than a year later he thought of quitting due to severe back problems. The only thing where he’s got consistent with Eteri is having to train with a corset now.

The consistency of Eteri’s skaters is actually bit of an urban legend if you look at it in the long term. And that’s not so surprising: if a severely injured skater continues to train, you might keep consistency in the short run, but in the long run you will either end up with an even longer break to cure, effecting consistency even more or in the worst case with retirement.

Buyanova might not have the most consistent skaters, but to be fair, other coaches also were not able to develop consistency with them --> see Denis (RIP Denis :cry:) and Frank Carol, Elene G and Brian Orser or Maxim Kotvun with Gontcharenko. Some skaters just can’t withstand pressure, no matter how hard they train. Moris Kvitelashvili for example is just in the same league of consistency as Maxim Kovtun. :p


Honestly she in a position where she doesn't even need to push her students to do more, cause CSKA huge inflation will always help her to guarantee at least one skater at Europeans and Worlds every single year, so why even bother?
Oh dear, I’m already so sick of that whinny poor Eteri against powerful Buyanova. Poor Sambo against powerful CSKA. Buyanova sure had a lot of political power on her side some years ago, certainly more than Eteri. But we are talking about RF – established coaches as a rule have more power than young upcoming ones. But right now Eteri does actually enjoy pretty much the same privileges than Buynova. For example compare Sergei’s PCS at this year’s RN and internationally and now do the same for Erokhov. Now whose scores were inflated? Or how it had been agreed prior to the competition that Adian should make the Euros team in 2015 no matter how he skated / placed at Nats. Gives you a hint whose skater was guaranteed a spot in the team (though Adian in the end thankfully skated well enough to make the team without any ugly deals.)

Or all that whining when Adian and Sergei left Sambo in 2016. It ended up with a rule that any medals they won till the end of season 2017/18 would be splitted and count for Sambo and CSKA. While medal count was agreed to be shared, Sambo surely didn’t share any costs which incurred for CSKA when trying to cure Adian’s back. And Sergei also first needed to recuperate his health when starting at CSKA. Still all medals he won after leaving counted also for Sambo. Which is particularly ridiculous as Sergei is not a skater where you can argue Sambo has raised him and invested in him from early years on. So which club here got the cherries on the cake? Half of the medal count without investing a single cent in that skater any longer? Certainly not CSKA. :noshake:


But then you look at what she achieved as a coach in all these years (remember she started in the 90s, Eteri in 2007 in Russia), with all these resources and with such a huge advantage, and it's basically only Adelina's gold medal at Sochi.

Buyanova has less success as she simply has a smaller group and thus less students. Second reason is that in relations to her athletes she simply isn’t prepared to walk over death bodies for success. :dev2:

And it’s amusing you mention Eteri started coaching in Russia only in 2007. What prevented her from returning earlier? Buyanova has always been coaching in Russia, even during the most difficult times, after state bankruptcy of Russia. It’s totally odd to mention that coaches having started coaching in Russia earlier than Eteri didn’t have that much success, when Eteri during that dark times chose to conveniently coach in the U.S. and only decided to comeback in 2007 when conditions started to improve. :dev3: Nobody prevented her from returning earlier. And nobody prevented her to have success in the U.S. Like Rafael. Actually this shows just again that Eteri’s system only works when everything is running smooth, when you have a well working system, lot of athletes being available as “material” and lot of government funding to provide her material with a good base and to enable skaters and herself to finance that sport well already at junior level.

And why always focusing on Buyanova? Mishin for example was just as successful in men than Eteri is now with ladies for some period of time. And at times where one could only dream about the conditions Eteri has currently.


Not all her skaters have back problems.
Now you must be really kidding to bring as an argument for Eteri that NOT ALL of her skaters have back problems? :eeking:
 

LucyH

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 6, 2018
It is indeed a ridiculous record, as more skaters should theoretically result in a bigger chance to bring at least one skater back after difficulties. That’s actually the point and what differentiates Eteri from all other A-Level coaches with similar success in terms of medal count: once a skater reaches elite level and difficulties set in, you seem to be done if trained by her. If you argue more skaters lead to more injuries then consequently as a rule more injuries should also lead to more comeback stories.



If Eteri’s goal would be to maximize success of her skaters and not the overall medal count, she would be interested in long-term careers and not squeezing out maximum in a short time. Paradoxically her approach in the long run does not lead to more competitiveness and sometimes even to early retirement of her skaters. Let’s take Tsurskaya and Sotskova: who was more competitive in early juniors? Tsurskaya. And who is now? Sotskova. So despite the greatness of Eteri, Buyanova in the long run managed to produce better results with a less talented skater.

But who cares about Tsurskaya’s fate in team Tutberidze, when others like Alina, Trusova or Kostornaya are climbing up the ranks. Now it’s Buyanova who has to take care of a skater who came to her with serious health problems and will probably be blamed for being less successful with Polina than Eteri by Eteri’s fans. :rolleye:




And so what? Being successful justifies unethical behavior? Bashing former students? Not caring about the athlete’s health? It’s by the way easier to be successful if you use methods other coaches would simply refrain from due to ethical reasons, like pressuring a severely injured underage athlete to compete. :slink:

Mishin with his skaters for some time dominated male skating just in a similar way than Eteri. Still many of his students had long-lasting careers and managed to come back after struggling with results / injuries.

Also if you argue that 80 % of Russia’s success in ladies was done by Eteri, most of it can be attributed to one particular skater: Medvedeva. A skater who like Plushenko is just stable by nature and probably would have become successful with many other coaches as well. Medvedeva in particular is an example that being consistent is not only related to intense training. Even after having to take off several weeks from jump practice she still kept consistency. But it tells something that Eteri didn’t even bother to take care of her golden goose and to cure Zhenia’s injury timely, but pressured an injured, very successful athlete to keep up the training intensity as a role model head to head against healthier younger athletes till the GP series started. That’s zero interest in the skater, or his long term- competitiveness. But it was of course best way to squeeze out maximum medal count for Russia at the OG in the ladies event. Who knows if Alina had progressed so fast, had Eteri allowed Zhenia to skip the GP and to take care of her injury already earlier in autumn.





Erokohov is actually not an example of a consistent skater and he would hardly have won JW the years before against the likes of Uno or Zhou. He won in a very weak competition and was by the way also competing against many skaters being much younger than him. Beside that Erokohov was quite sick some years ago (heart problems seem to be a red line even for Eteri) and simply not on her radar. He was not a high level skater that time and thus not part of that training regimen where problems quite often set in (e.g. intense jump training even during growth sprints). Actually being less talented than e.g. Adian in the eyes of the coaches and not being able to train at full force due to sickness when his body was developing might have saved Erokhov, allthough as it had been pointed out, he still had a lot of injuries afterwards once the coaching team put more focus on him.




  • How consistent was Julia after Sochi despite numerous run throughs when still being with Eteri? With finishing 9th at RN?
  • How consistent was Adian after back problems set in when still being with Eteri? (JW LP disaster? Nepala disaster in the short? Skating a complete mess in Zagreb in a luckily week field? And I don’t even mention in detail his last competition.)
  • How consistent was Sergei after WC 2015, though he was still training with Eteri?
  • How consistent was Polina T. after JW in 2016 when still training with Eteri?
  • How consistent was Ilia Skirda after 2016 when still training with Eteri?
  • How consistent did Samoliev become with Eteri once back problems set in? Finishing last at RN? He by the way came to Eteri at age 17 with a healthy back, less than a year later he thought of quitting due to severe back problems. The only thing where he’s got consistent with Eteri is having to train with a corset now.

The consistency of Eteri’s skaters is actually bit of an urban legend if you look at it in the long term. And that’s not so surprising: if a severely injured skater continues to train, you might keep consistency in the short run, but in the long run you will either end up with an even longer break to cure, effecting consistency even more or in the worst case with retirement.

Buyanova might not have the most consistent skaters, but to be fair, other coaches also were not able to develop consistency with them --> see Denis (RIP Denis :cry:) and Frank Carol, Elene G and Brian Orser or Maxim Kotvun with Gontcharenko. Some skaters just can’t withstand pressure, no matter how hard they train. Moris Kvitelashvili for example is just in the same league of consistency as Maxim Kovtun. :p



Oh dear, I’m already so sick of that whinny poor Eteri against powerful Buyanova. Poor Sambo against powerful CSKA. Buyanova sure had a lot of political power on her side some years ago, certainly more than Eteri. But we are talking about RF – established coaches as a rule have more power than young upcoming ones. But right now Eteri does actually enjoy pretty much the same privileges than Buynova. For example compare Sergei’s PCS at this year’s RN and internationally and now do the same for Erokhov. Now whose scores were inflated? Or how it had been agreed prior to the competition that Adian should make the Euros team in 2015 no matter how he skated / placed at Nats. Gives you a hint whose skater was guaranteed a spot in the team (though Adian in the end thankfully skated well enough to make the team without any ugly deals.)

Or all that whining when Adian and Sergei left Sambo in 2016. It ended up with a rule that any medals they won till the end of season 2017/18 would be splitted and count for Sambo and CSKA. While medal count was agreed to be shared, Sambo surely didn’t share any costs which incurred for CSKA when trying to cure Adian’s back. And Sergei also first needed to recuperate his health when starting at CSKA. Still all medals he won after leaving counted also for Sambo. Which is particularly ridiculous as Sergei is not a skater where you can argue Sambo has raised him and invested in him from early years on. So which club here got the cherries on the cake? Half of the medal count without investing a single cent in that skater any longer? Certainly not CSKA. :noshake:




Buyanova has less success as she simply has a smaller group and thus less students. Second reason is that in relations to her athletes she simply isn’t prepared to walk over death bodies for success. :dev2:

And it’s amusing you mention Eteri started coaching in Russia only in 2007. What prevented her from returning earlier? Buyanova has always been coaching in Russia, even during the most difficult times, after state bankruptcy of Russia. It’s totally odd to mention that coaches having started coaching in Russia earlier than Eteri didn’t have that much success, when Eteri during that dark times chose to conveniently coach in the U.S. and only decided to comeback in 2007 when conditions started to improve. :dev3: Nobody prevented her from returning earlier. And nobody prevented her to have success in the U.S. Like Rafael. Actually this shows just again that Eteri’s system only works when everything is running smooth, when you have a well working system, lot of athletes being available as “material” and lot of government funding to provide her material with a good base and to enable skaters and herself to finance that sport well already at junior level.

And why always focusing on Buyanova? Mishin for example was just as successful in men than Eteri is now with ladies for some period of time. And at times where one could only dream about the conditions Eteri has currently.



Now you must be really kidding to bring as an argument for Eteri that NOT ALL of her skaters have back problems? :eeking:

Your post deserves a medal
 

ewdokia

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 16, 2014
Your post deserves a medal
Thank you. :) Though I wish discussions like these wouldn’t be necessary and that skaters from Eteri’s team could like so many others simply switch coaches quiet and in peace. :(

Yes apparently she’s joined Anna’s group, but I didn’t know that Polina Shelepen was in this group? I know that Polina is a trainer now with her own group. Perhaps they were at a common summer camp?
Photo 1
Photo 2
Photo 3
Thank you for the info & the pics. I really like the idea of Dasha being coached by Polina S., actually much more than by Tsarevna. Polina knows which system Dasha comes from, so she has already a picture about Dasha’s strength and weaknesses. Plus Polina’s skating style was a bit similar to Dasha’s: strong and powerful. I think it would be much easier between these two to develop a common understanding. :agree2:
In addition I’d be very happy for Polina if Dasha would be her first elite-level student. However I wonder about the cooperation with Tsarevna: Polina already had her own group of young students at CSKA. So switching clubs just to become a Co-coach doesn’t make much sense to me? To me it also looks like it was more a sporadic cooperation during a skating camp? :confused:
 

Tere19

Rinkside
Joined
Jun 23, 2019
AND THE MYSTERY WAS RESOLVED



Дарья Паненкова :
(I had to laught about the part when she was caught buying chocolate at novogorsk and was worried Eteri was going to use that to make fun of her for a long time ...😂&#128514
Daria Panenkova: “When I was drawn for sweets, the coaches somehow caught me in the store. I was afraid that Tutberidze would be teasing for a long time. ”

Russian figure skater Daria Panenkova told why she left the group Eteri Tutberidze.

“The fight began with weight. I was more drawn to the sweet - all sorts of chocolates. Even somehow the coaches caught me in the store. Then I was not funny. Eteri Georgievna is more on the positive, she teases, and I was scared that she would tease hard and long.

I went to every workout with pain, and I had a fear that my leg would break. Eteri Georgievna said "go calm down" because I was crying.

In the locker room, when the training was already over, Eteri Georgievna told me: “Either you go out to the younger ones on the ice, or you leave.” And I said I'm leaving. I packed up and left the training camp, ”said Panenkova on the TV channel“ Rain ”
 

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
It's kind of a ridiculous record because Eteri is also the coach who is training more skaters than everyone else (more skaters obviously mean more injuries), and unlike Raf where you can clearly see how he doesn't care about his B-C tier skaters, Eteri tries to achieve the best they can with every one of her students, she wants to make them all competitive, otherwise why are you even skating? (and this is what Raf also used to say in the past)

I think people nowadays are giving way too much crap to Eteri, but it's very easy to forget that the russian dominance in ladies figure skating of the past 3-4 years at least, is like 80% done by Eteri Tutberidze, without Eteri, Russia won't be as successful.

Most of her "old" skaters used to be not all that talented, i look at skaters like Erokhov, how much he improved. I don't think he would have ever won Junior Worlds with another coach.



Yeah watch out how is that going to affect his consistency.

Practice is everything in figure skating, the less you work the more unstable are your elements, in fact Buyanova's skaters are known for being all very inconsistent.

Honestly she in a position where she doesn't even need to push her students to do more, cause CSKA huge inflation will always help her to guarantee at least one skater at Europeans and Worlds every single year, so why even bother?

But then you look at what she achieved as a coach in all these years (remember she started in the 90s, Eteri in 2007 in Russia), with all these resources and with such a huge advantage, and it's basically only Adelina's gold medal at Sochi.

No World medals from her students in seniors, i believe also no gold at europeans, and no gold at GPF.

Not all her skaters have back problems.

So well explained so all of us can understand what's going on with eteri and all her many skaters. Like you said more skaters equals more injuries. It also means more successes. She has pretty much buried other woman's coaches in Russia except for Alexei Mishin.
 

Tolstoj

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
I can't believe i haven't seen this post for a year, but since the topic is still "trending" i want to reply.

It is indeed a ridiculous record, as more skaters should theoretically result in a bigger chance to bring at least one skater back after difficulties. That’s actually the point and what differentiates Eteri from all other A-Level coaches with similar success in terms of medal count: once a skater reaches elite level and difficulties set in, you seem to be done if trained by her. If you argue more skaters lead to more injuries then consequently as a rule more injuries should also lead to more comeback stories.

Well if you read the interviews you have the answer already. Eteri is not interested in coaching an athlete for 10 years (i've criticized her in the past for that but we have to admit this fits her strategy: she built her success working with juniors and they always come back to them).

As for the lack of comeback stories, my guess is that this could be a psychological issue: again based on interviews, for many reasons (Eteri is very good at motivating her skaters, you see your main competitors at the ice every day, they set short deadlines to achieve results quicker,...) the training on that rink is the most intense you can have on Russia and maybe in the World.

Once you switch coach you see the training and motivations aren't as powerful and you lose confidence, that's natural.

Then there is also some post puberty work on adjusting technique that Eteri's group don't address, i've complained about that too in other posts.

If Eteri’s goal would be to maximize success of her skaters and not the overall medal count, she would be interested in long-term careers and not squeezing out maximum in a short time. Paradoxically her approach in the long run does not lead to more competitiveness and sometimes even to early retirement of her skaters. Let’s take Tsurskaya and Sotskova: who was more competitive in early juniors? Tsurskaya. And who is now? Sotskova. So despite the greatness of Eteri, Buyanova in the long run managed to produce better results with a less talented skater.

But who cares about Tsurskaya’s fate in team Tutberidze, when others like Alina, Trusova or Kostornaya are climbing up the ranks. Now it’s Buyanova who has to take care of a skater who came to her with serious health problems and will probably be blamed for being less successful with Polina than Eteri by Eteri’s fans. :rolleye:

This part aged so poorly lol

My predictions were so on point, rereading this thread has been hilarious and amazing: most Buyanova skaters had a bad season also because of these late summer changes (and other reasons of course) and less efficient training.

Not only Tsurskaya but Sotskova also had a terrible season and changed coach, Gubanova started bad so she didn't get the GP spot because of that,...

Eteri's group proved with results (gold medals at Worlds, Olympics, GPF, Europeans and juniors) their system works: they are not interested in long-term careers probably because that would mean rework techniques post puberty, worse physical conditions,... they save all that time by simply working with the next generation and apply everything they learned with the previous ones.

on Sotskova vs Tsurskaya, you're maybe not very informed, Sotskova learnt all her jumps, spins, skills from Panova, rewatch her career in juniors and compare to the skater she has become with Buyanova.

If you ask me Panova teaches stronger basics than Tutberidze: they are not maybe as good at maximizing results but you can see the stronger foundation with things like jumps and edges, not just with Sotskova but even with the younger skaters like Kanysheva and Sinitsyna.

And so what? Being successful justifies unethical behavior? Bashing former students? Not caring about the athlete’s health? It’s by the way easier to be successful if you use methods other coaches would simply refrain from due to ethical reasons, like pressuring a severely injured underage athlete to compete. :slink:

Mishin with his skaters for some time dominated male skating just in a similar way than Eteri. Still many of his students had long-lasting careers and managed to come back after struggling with results / injuries.

If you consider the level of results Eteri brings every season and how many skaters they are coaching (a lot for an elite team), yes they are tough but because they have to keep those very high standards. At that level it's not that uncommon to find coaches that tough.

Mishin's approach is different, a bit more organic and he believes in long lasting career: i like it more too, but i can see why Eteri's team behave that way.

Also if you argue that 80 % of Russia’s success in ladies was done by Eteri, most of it can be attributed to one particular skater: Medvedeva. A skater who like Plushenko is just stable by nature and probably would have become successful with many other coaches as well. Medvedeva in particular is an example that being consistent is not only related to intense training. Even after having to take off several weeks from jump practice she still kept consistency. But it tells something that Eteri didn’t even bother to take care of her golden goose and to cure Zhenia’s injury timely, but pressured an injured, very successful athlete to keep up the training intensity as a role model head to head against healthier younger athletes till the GP series started. That’s zero interest in the skater, or his long term- competitiveness. But it was of course best way to squeeze out maximum medal count for Russia at the OG in the ladies event. Who knows if Alina had progressed so fast, had Eteri allowed Zhenia to skip the GP and to take care of her injury already earlier in autumn.

Wow there are so many bold claims with no facts behind.

Medvedeva is one piece of the puzzle: yes she was very successful, she won almost everything with Eteri, but if you take her out, that group still achieved a lot with Julia Lipnitskaya, Alina Zagitova, and even Tursynbaeva most recently and you'll see with 3A this season and in the future with the new juniors.

I also disagree on Plushenko: he was that strong because he was really talented but also because Mishin's technique was honestly the best and that alongside other things kept him consistent for many years. After 2002 though they changed the strategy a bit (probably in order to last longer), basically separating the technical elements to the steps sequence, choreo moments which wasn't that uncommon to see in that era but Mishin brought that to the extreme, with really empty sections of just jumps, and they kept that until he retired.

My guess is that Plushenko would have been successful with other top coaches but maybe not for THAT many years.

Erokohov is actually not an example of a consistent skater and he would hardly have won JW the years before against the likes of Uno or Zhou. He won in a very weak competition and was by the way also competing against many skaters being much younger than him. Beside that Erokohov was quite sick some years ago (heart problems seem to be a red line even for Eteri) and simply not on her radar. He was not a high level skater that time and thus not part of that training regimen where problems quite often set in (e.g. intense jump training even during growth sprints). Actually being less talented than e.g. Adian in the eyes of the coaches and not being able to train at full force due to sickness when his body was developing might have saved Erokhov, allthough as it had been pointed out, he still had a lot of injuries afterwards once the coaching team put more focus on him.

Despite Eteri's results with the men aren't the most memorable (yet), they are still some of the best in Russia. You have to consider also the material you're working with which wasn't that great up until few years ago (i believe the new generation with Samsonov and others is much more promising)

  • How consistent was Julia after Sochi despite numerous run throughs when still being with Eteri? With finishing 9th at RN?
  • How consistent was Adian after back problems set in when still being with Eteri? (JW LP disaster? Nepala disaster in the short? Skating a complete mess in Zagreb in a luckily week field? And I don’t even mention in detail his last competition.)
  • How consistent was Sergei after WC 2015, though he was still training with Eteri?
  • How consistent was Polina T. after JW in 2016 when still training with Eteri?
  • How consistent was Ilia Skirda after 2016 when still training with Eteri?
  • How consistent did Samoliev become with Eteri once back problems set in? Finishing last at RN? He by the way came to Eteri at age 17 with a healthy back, less than a year later he thought of quitting due to severe back problems. The only thing where he’s got consistent with Eteri is having to train with a corset now.

The consistency of Eteri’s skaters is actually bit of an urban legend if you look at it in the long term. And that’s not so surprising: if a severely injured skater continues to train, you might keep consistency in the short run, but in the long run you will either end up with an even longer break to cure, effecting consistency even more or in the worst case with retirement.

Buyanova might not have the most consistent skaters, but to be fair, other coaches also were not able to develop consistency with them --> see Denis (RIP Denis :cry:) and Frank Carol, Elene G and Brian Orser or Maxim Kotvun with Gontcharenko. Some skaters just can’t withstand pressure, no matter how hard they train. Moris Kvitelashvili for example is just in the same league of consistency as Maxim Kovtun. :p

You can put out a list like that for literally any coaches to make them look bad since all skaters have downs and eventually retire, that's why you should focus on the results achieved.

In the past 5 years, how many coaches have

- 2 Olympic medals (gold and silver)
- 5 World medals (3 gold, 2 silver)
- 6 European medals (3 gold, 2 silver, 1 bronze)
- 5 GPF medals (3 gold, 1 silver, 1 bronze)

That's the most consistent track record of results at the big events, only matched by Orser mostly because of Hanyu.

Also Denis Ten biggest successes were achieved with Frank Carroll.

Oh dear, I’m already so sick of that whinny poor Eteri against powerful Buyanova. Poor Sambo against powerful CSKA. Buyanova sure had a lot of political power on her side some years ago, certainly more than Eteri. But we are talking about RF – established coaches as a rule have more power than young upcoming ones. But right now Eteri does actually enjoy pretty much the same privileges than Buynova. For example compare Sergei’s PCS at this year’s RN and internationally and now do the same for Erokhov. Now whose scores were inflated? Or how it had been agreed prior to the competition that Adian should make the Euros team in 2015 no matter how he skated / placed at Nats. Gives you a hint whose skater was guaranteed a spot in the team (though Adian in the end thankfully skated well enough to make the team without any ugly deals.)

Or all that whining when Adian and Sergei left Sambo in 2016. It ended up with a rule that any medals they won till the end of season 2017/18 would be splitted and count for Sambo and CSKA. While medal count was agreed to be shared, Sambo surely didn’t share any costs which incurred for CSKA when trying to cure Adian’s back. And Sergei also first needed to recuperate his health when starting at CSKA. Still all medals he won after leaving counted also for Sambo. Which is particularly ridiculous as Sergei is not a skater where you can argue Sambo has raised him and invested in him from early years on. So which club here got the cherries on the cake? Half of the medal count without investing a single cent in that skater any longer? Certainly not CSKA. :noshake:

I'd argue Sergei Voronov barely achieved anything before joining Sambo70. As for his PCS, unfortunately RusFed has never really counted on him in the late stage of his career, this was true when he was with Eteri also: in 14-15 he should have won Russian Nationals, but RusFed was all about Kovtun.

Look i don't hate CSKA, but when you have those resources and political influence, the results Buyanova brought with all her skaters are quite poor, you'd expect a lot more, especially when you see other coaches doing better with less funding, no inflation,...

Buyanova has less success as she simply has a smaller group and thus less students. Second reason is that in relations to her athletes she simply isn’t prepared to walk over death bodies for success. :dev2:

That's not true at all. CSKA always has a big pool of skaters between seniors and juniors, in the past definitely bigger than what Eteri had.

And it’s amusing you mention Eteri started coaching in Russia only in 2007. What prevented her from returning earlier? Buyanova has always been coaching in Russia, even during the most difficult times, after state bankruptcy of Russia. It’s totally odd to mention that coaches having started coaching in Russia earlier than Eteri didn’t have that much success, when Eteri during that dark times chose to conveniently coach in the U.S. and only decided to comeback in 2007 when conditions started to improve. :dev3: Nobody prevented her from returning earlier. And nobody prevented her to have success in the U.S. Like Rafael. Actually this shows just again that Eteri’s system only works when everything is running smooth, when you have a well working system, lot of athletes being available as “material” and lot of government funding to provide her material with a good base and to enable skaters and herself to finance that sport well already at junior level.

It's quite odd to judge people lives that way, Eteri returned to Russia when she felt the need to, it's her private life, she has her reasons on why she stayed in US in the 90s, why she came back, i really don't want to talk about that... But no figure skating was not that much better in 2007 , and she didn't have all the funding and zero political influence in the early stage of her career in Russia, everything she has now was earned with her students by winning competitions.
 

Edwin

СделаноВХрустальном!
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 5, 2019
She looked lost and forlorn in the Instagram videos that one of those rotten channels stole and uploaded to YouTube.
So my guess is motivation and training result issues. #TeamTutberidzeForProgress has no room, time or energy for those that aren’t 100% motivated.

Edited: many stolen videos from Instagram with Anastasiya Gubanova appear now, is she another skater with her career in a slump?
 

icetug

Medalist
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
#TeamTutberidzeForProgress has no room, time or energy for those that aren’t 100% motivated.

Sure. But how to be motivated while injured? How to be motivated when your coach denies your injury and punishes you with degradation to less advanced group? Great job, #TeamTutberdzeForProgress.
 
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