Freestyle vs Ice dance | Golden Skate

Freestyle vs Ice dance

iceskating21

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
If we compare the competitions, which one is harder to win, freestyle or ice dance?

For freestyle, my daughter is Juvenile MIF, and hasn't tested free skate although she should be able to pass some. She has been learning dance ever since 4 and now competes in state/regional level dance competitions. Some coaches suggest her to do ice dance.

My daughter is the type that likes hard working and really wants to WIN! So I want her to focus on one instead of trying both. If the goal is to compete recreationally, which one is a better option?

Comparing costs, time and effort, any suggestion is appreciated!
 

jgubs

Spectator
Joined
Aug 2, 2018
It's not a matter of what's easier to win. I'm assuming you are talking about solo ice dance? Skating with a partner is a whole different ballgame. My daughter switched from freestyle to ice dance about a year ago because she tried dance and loved it. We are currently looking for a partner, but in the mean time she did a few competitions as a solo dancer. It may be slightly easier to win in solo dance, just because there seem to be fewer competitors in general, but the girls who are on the podium in dance are the ones who have great skating skills. The ones who are on the podium in freestyle are the ones with the jumps and spins. My daughter was a good jumper and when she switched to ice dance and focused solely on her skating skills and not jumps, she became a much better skater. Time and money devoted to skating is MUCH less for us than what she had in freestyle.
 

iceskating21

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
It's not a matter of what's easier to win. I'm assuming you are talking about solo ice dance? Skating with a partner is a whole different ballgame. My daughter switched from freestyle to ice dance about a year ago because she tried dance and loved it. We are currently looking for a partner, but in the mean time she did a few competitions as a solo dancer. It may be slightly easier to win in solo dance, just because there seem to be fewer competitors in general, but the girls who are on the podium in dance are the ones who have great skating skills. The ones who are on the podium in freestyle are the ones with the jumps and spins. My daughter was a good jumper and when she switched to ice dance and focused solely on her skating skills and not jumps, she became a much better skater. Time and money devoted to skating is MUCH less for us than what she had in freestyle.

What was her level in freestyle before she switched? Is she doing both now or only dance? Thank you!
 

jgubs

Spectator
Joined
Aug 2, 2018
She was about to go up to Intermediate in freestyle when she switched. She is only doing dance because we both realized she enjoyed it more.
 

chiyung

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
Comparing costs, time and effort, any suggestion is appreciated!
There are fewer total skaters competing in solo dance now than in free skate. Solo dance competitions started in 2011, and have been growing in numbers since. Based on total numbers, I think the odds favor solo dance. However, dance may not be right for everyone. I think it's more important to skate in the discipline that the skater enjoys more.

I know many of the solo ice dance competitors have switched from free skate competitions, including my daughter, who did that years ago. She just enjoys ice dancing a lot more.

The coaches’ rates are just as expensive and my daughter is skating about the same amount (about 8 to 10 hr/wk). I found it took less time to reach a higher level in solo dance than in free skate. That may be because my daughter likes practicing her edges, power, and twizzles more than jumps, which can be unforgiving to some.
 

Sam L

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Sorry but I don't see the point of solo dance. If you want to do dance, get a partner, if you want to go solo do freestyle and there's even artistic stuff.
 

tstop4me

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Country
United-States
Sorry but I don't see the point of solo dance. If you want to do dance, get a partner, if you want to go solo do freestyle and there's even artistic stuff.
<<Emphasis added>> Not so easy if you're female. Don't have the stats, but the number of aspiring female ice dancers way outnumber the number of aspiring male ice dancers.
 

jgubs

Spectator
Joined
Aug 2, 2018
Sorry but I don't see the point of solo dance. If you want to do dance, get a partner, if you want to go solo do freestyle and there's even artistic stuff.

Many solo female dancers are looking for partners, but there are so few boys out there doing ice dance that it may take several years to find someone (if at all). My daughter is competing in solo dance while looking for partnership because she needs a goal and enjoys competing and skating a program. Other solo dancers just want to do solo and it's perfectly fine.

One advantage freestyle has is being a recognized discipline in the international arena, you're not going to Grand Prix or the Olympics as a solo dancer, BUT 99% of kids skating today will never make it there either, so if your goal is just to skate, compete, and have fun, doing solo dance is just as good as doing freestyle. Some kids can't jump well, not everyone can, so solo dance gives them a way to compete in figure skating without jumping.
 

chiyung

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
Sorry but I don't see the point of solo dance. If you want to do dance, get a partner, if you want to go solo do freestyle and there's even artistic stuff.
Different people like different things. My husband doesn't see the point of figure skating in any discipline, much less ice dancing or solo dance. However, he fully supports our daughter because he sees how happy she is when she skates.

My daughter isn't into jumps which is why she stopped free skate competition. We know that solo ice dance is a way for skaters to get noticed by ice dance judges & skating officials. Participating in solo ice dance competitions would improve skaters' chances of getting partners if they are seeking that. We know several young ladies who are currently competing in partner ice dance who started with solo dance competition.

My daughter had gone to a few tryout skates in ice dancing that went well, but we quickly realized that it's not right for us. We would have had to move to where the boy lives, which is not feasible for us. We could've gotten another boy to move to our place if we paid for everything, but my husband was against that on principle.

In the meantime, my daughter continues to enjoy the beauty of ice dancing.
 

Sam L

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
<<Emphasis added>> Not so easy if you're female. Don't have the stats, but the number of aspiring female ice dancers way outnumber the number of aspiring male ice dancers.

True, I love being a man in figure skating. We have our choice of ladies. :laugh:

Many solo female dancers are looking for partners, but there are so few boys out there doing ice dance that it may take several years to find someone (if at all). My daughter is competing in solo dance while looking for partnership because she needs a goal and enjoys competing and skating a program. Other solo dancers just want to do solo and it's perfectly fine.

One advantage freestyle has is being a recognized discipline in the international arena, you're not going to Grand Prix or the Olympics as a solo dancer, BUT 99% of kids skating today will never make it there either, so if your goal is just to skate, compete, and have fun, doing solo dance is just as good as doing freestyle. Some kids can't jump well, not everyone can, so solo dance gives them a way to compete in figure skating without jumping.

Isn't that call Artistic?
 

Clarice

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 26, 2005
Isn't that call Artistic?

No, free dance is a discipline of its own, with its own set of required elements. For example, my daughter is currently working on her Senior solo free dance (which will be her 4th gold medal test). Her program is packed with required elements - a spin, a dance stop, twizzle sequences, step sequences, edge elements - which have to be done in time to the music and express the character of the dance. It's very technical, and in many ways has more in common with a free skate program than with an artistic. Artistic events have no required elements. You can do whatever you like that expresses the music or character chosen, although there are usually limits on jumps (because that isn't the focus of artistic skating).
 

iceskating21

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
Sorry, are we all talking about solo free dance or solo pattern dance? I just realized that they are different.

Is Solo Free Dance more parallel to freestyle? I saw that its tarts from Juvenile to Senior. Doe sit means the skater has to be pass Juvenile MIF to start solo free dance test?

Solo Pattern dance seems totally different: Pre-Bronze to Gold.

The competition your talked about is solo free dance, did you?

Would anyone who has experience please compare them? Thanks!
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Sorry, are we all talking about solo free dance or solo pattern dance? I just realized that they are different.

Is Solo Free Dance more parallel to freestyle?

Yes, solo free dance is more similar to freestyle than solo pattern dance is to freestyle.

If you're asking whether solo free dance is more similar to freestyle than it is to pattern dance, that's a less obvious answer. There are no jumps and simpler spins than in freestyle -- the other required elements are step sequences, edge element (spirals or the like), twizzles, and stops. And the music needs to be rhythmic and the music interpretation is more important than in freestyle.

But it's "free" in that the skater gets to make up their own program (or have the coach or a choreographer make it), rather than everyone doing the exact same pattern.

I saw that its tarts from Juvenile to Senior. Doe sit means the skater has to be pass Juvenile MIF to start solo free dance test?

Solo Pattern dance seems totally different: Pre-Bronze to Gold.

For solo free dance, there is more flexibility about the prerequisites for the tests than in other disciplines.
See the first post in thread: https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?74381-Solo-Free-Dance-test-requirements

Competitions that are part of the solo dance series offer both solo pattern dance and solo free dance. Usually skaters can enter only one or the other, or a combined event.
 

chiyung

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
Sorry, are we all talking about solo free dance or solo pattern dance?
I think of the solo free dance like the free skate program, and the solo short dances (at junior & senior level) like the short program in free skate competitions. At novice & lower, the USFS solo dances series replaces the short dance with pattern dances in the competitions.

http://www.usfsa.org/programs?id=84172

In the USFS solo dance series, there are 3 types of competitions that skaters may sign up for: (1) solo pattern dance; (2) solo combined events that consists of solo pattern dances (or incorporation of a solo pattern dance into a solo short dance) and a solo free dance; and (3) shadow dance that consists of 2 skaters skating a pattern dance side-by-side. A skater can register before the season begins with USFS for just one of these 3, two of these 3, or all 3. At any given solo dance series competition, a skater can compete in as many or as few of the types that she has registered for. A skater does not need to have registered with the series to compete at any given competition.

In my earlier posts, I didn’t specify which type because I meant any one of them, or combinations of them (solo pattern dance; solo combined event of free dance & pattern dances; and shadow dance).
 

iceskating21

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
But I often see that "U.S. National Champion in Junior Dance" , etc. I never see Bronze or Silver. Why? Is it the (2) you mentioned?



I think of the solo free dance like the free skate program, and the solo short dances (at junior & senior level) like the short program in free skate competitions. At novice & lower, the USFS solo dances series replaces the short dance with pattern dances in the competitions.

http://www.usfsa.org/programs?id=84172

In the USFS solo dance series, there are 3 types of competitions that skaters may sign up for: (1) solo pattern dance; (2) solo combined events that consists of solo pattern dances (or incorporation of a solo pattern dance into a solo short dance) and a solo free dance; and (3) shadow dance that consists of 2 skaters skating a pattern dance side-by-side. A skater can register before the season begins with USFS for just one of these 3, two of these 3, or all 3. At any given solo dance series competition, a skater can compete in as many or as few of the types that she has registered for. A skater does not need to have registered with the series to compete at any given competition.

In my earlier posts, I didn’t specify which type because I meant any one of them, or combinations of them (solo pattern dance; solo combined event of free dance & pattern dances; and shadow dance).
 

Clarice

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 26, 2005
But I often see that "U.S. National Champion in Junior Dance" , etc. I never see Bronze or Silver. Why? Is it the (2) you mentioned?

It does get complicated; I'll try to simplify. There is Pattern Dance (the test levels go Preliminary, Pre-Bronze, Bronze, Pre-Silver, Silver, Pre-Gold, Gold, International) and Free Dance (the standard levels go Juvenile, Intermediate, Novice, Junior, Senior). There is also partnered dance and solo dance. To compete at a particular level in partnered dance, you first need to pass the required pattern dances and then the appropriate free dance test. The competition will consist of pattern dances and a free dance, or at the junior and senior levels, a rhythm dance and a free dance.

For solo dance, you can qualify to take a solo free dance test either by passing the required pattern dances, or the designated Moves test, or the previous free dance test. Partnered tests can count towards solo dance levels, but solo dance tests cannot count toward partnered dance levels. The standard levels go Juvenile-Senior, like in partnered dance.

Adult dance is a little different. The solo free dance tests are named the same (Juvenile-Senior), but are judged on a different standard. The partnered dance levels and the solo competitive levels have the same Preliminary-Gold designations as the pattern dances. It would be worthwhile to look through the Rule Book if you want to understand all the ins and outs of this stuff.
 

chiyung

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
But I often see that "U.S. National Champion in Junior Dance" , etc. I never see Bronze or Silver. Why? Is it the (2) you mentioned?

It does get complicated; I'll try to simplify. There is Pattern Dance (the test levels go Preliminary, Pre-Bronze, Bronze, Pre-Silver, Silver, Pre-Gold, Gold, International) and Free Dance (the standard levels go Juvenile, Intermediate, Novice, Junior, Senior). There is also partnered dance and solo dance. To compete at a particular level in partnered dance, you first need to pass the required pattern dances and then the appropriate free dance test. The competition will consist of pattern dances and a free dance, or at the junior and senior levels, a rhythm dance and a free dance.

For solo dance, you can qualify to take a solo free dance test either by passing the required pattern dances, or the designated Moves test, or the previous free dance test. Partnered tests can count towards solo dance levels, but solo dance tests cannot count toward partnered dance levels. The standard levels go Juvenile-Senior, like in partnered dance.

Adult dance is a little different. The solo free dance tests are named the same (Juvenile-Senior), but are judged on a different standard. The partnered dance levels and the solo competitive levels have the same Preliminary-Gold designations as the pattern dances. It would be worthwhile to look through the Rule Book if you want to understand all the ins and outs of this stuff.

Thanks for explaining. I understand what you’re saying, but I can see how it gets complicated.

Under USFS, there are 8 groups of pattern dances with a total of 33 individual pattern dances:
• Preliminary (3 pattern dances)
• Pre-Bronze (3)
• Bronze (3)
• Pre-Silver (3)
• Silver (3)
• Pre-Gold (4)
• Gold (4)
• International (10)

In all my posts, I was only talking about solo ice dance. It's difficult for some skaters to find appropriate partners to compete in partner ice dancing. Many ice dancers in the U.S., like my daughter, only compete in solo ice dancing. Unless you have a sibling or someone local at your rink that's a good match, this is where many ice dancers start competing or only compete in. The USFS solo dance series start in the spring each season, and wraps up with the national competition in September.

In solo ice dance competition, the most popular competition type is the Solo Combined Events. There are several levels: Juvenile, Intermediate, Novice, Junior, and Senior.

• Juvenile level consists of Bronze pattern dances (e.g., Hickory Hoedown, Willow Waltz) and a Free Dance (1-min-40-sec program includes short edge, spin, step sequence, twizzle, dance stop).

• Intermediate level consists of Pre-Silver pattern dances (e.g., Foxtrot, European Waltz) and a Free Dance (1-min-50-sec program includes short edge, spin, step sequence, twizzle series, dance stop).

• Novice level consists of Silver pattern dances (e.g., American Waltz, Tango) and a Free Dance (2-min program includes 2 short edges, spin, step sequence, twizzle series, dance stop).

• Junior level consists of a 2-min Short Dance (include short edge, step sequence, twizzle series, a high-level pattern dance) and a 2-min-20-sec Free Dance (include long edge, short edge, spin, 2 step sequences, 2 twizzle series, dance stop).

• Senior level consists of a 2-min Short Dance (include short edge, step sequence, twizzle series, a high-level pattern dance) and a 2-min-40-sec Free Dance (include long edge, 2 short edges, spin, 2 step sequences, 2 twizzle series, dance stop).

In solo ice dance competition, there’s a competition type that’s only pattern dances. The levels are:
• Preliminary
• Pre-Bronze
• Bronze
• Pre-Silver
• Silver
• Pre-Gold
• Gold
• International
 

iceskating21

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
Thank you, Clarice and Chiyung! You provided very useful information! Now I have much better idea.

My daughter will take Juvenile MIF this month. If she starts to take ice dance lessons now, in order to compete in Solo Ice Dance, the most likely path is to go through: Preliminary - Pre-Bronze - Bronze - Juvenile - ........Senior. Am I correct?

For freestyle, she is fine and well rounded. She has no obviously strength or weakness, is fine with jumps, but not very advanced yet. She have been dancing for many years and competed in dance. Will it help ice dance? I heard ice dance and freestyle use different skates. If we do both at the same time, will it be confusing? Besides, most likely there will be a different coach for ice dance, and perhaps in a different ice rink. Then what's the relationship with freestyle coach? Is there a primary coach or they are nothing to do with each other?
 

chiyung

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
Thank you, Clarice and Chiyung! You provided very useful information! Now I have much better idea.

My daughter will take Juvenile MIF this month. If she starts to take ice dance lessons now, in order to compete in Solo Ice Dance, the most likely path is to go through: Preliminary - Pre-Bronze - Bronze - Juvenile - ........Senior. Am I correct?

For freestyle, she is fine and well rounded. She has no obviously strength or weakness, is fine with jumps, but not very advanced yet. She have been dancing for many years and competed in dance. Will it help ice dance? I heard ice dance and freestyle use different skates. If we do both at the same time, will it be confusing? Besides, most likely there will be a different coach for ice dance, and perhaps in a different ice rink. Then what's the relationship with freestyle coach? Is there a primary coach or they are nothing to do with each other?
When my daughter started pattern dance lessons, she was taking it on the side to help her free skate competition. It was with the approval of her head free skate coach. Years later, she stopped all free skate lessons, and her current head coach is her ice dance coach. We are still on very good terms with her former free skate coaches, whom we see often teaching others at the rink.

Usually the ice dance coach is different from the free skate coach. We stayed at the same rink because there was an ice dance coach there and my daughter likes him as a coach. We subsequently got an additional dance coach (with head dance coach approval) at a further away rink that we occasionally go to.

Yes, start with lessons on the pattern dances (Preliminary, then Pre-Bronze, and then Bronze). Your dance coach should provide guidance on whether Juvenile solo dance is the right level for your skater for the solo dance competitions that starts in spring of 2019. Maybe just compete in Preliminary pattern or pre-Bronze pattern in your first season if she is also competing in free skate competitions. It depends on how quickly she progresses after she starts pattern dance lessons.

I think dancing helps with expressions and understanding dance movements with music. Placing well in solo dance depends a lot on skating skills.

I don’t think it’s worth the money to buy dance skates for your daughter if she is still taking free skate lessons. When we started ice dancing lessons, my daughter’s coach said many ice dancers at her level use freestyle skates & boots. She still uses boots & blades made for freestyle although she competes in high-level solo ice dances now. We’ll eventually switch over, but it’s too soon for your child.

Good luck on your daughter’s moves test!
 

Clarice

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 26, 2005
I agree with everything chiyung has said above, and would like to second that it is not necessary to get special boots/blades for ice dance at the beginning. I dance exclusively now, and switched over when I reached the pre-silver dances. My daughter, however, finished her gold solo dances and is working on her Senior solo free dance and is still in freestyle boots/blades. If she were trying to do high level partnering, it would have been more of an issue.
 
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