Basic off ice training/conditioning

Hi all. So, I'm a newbie---32 years old, skating 6 weeks now, just tested into LTS basic 4, practicing 7-10 hours a week on the ice, taking 1 group lesson a week and just starting 1 weekly private lesson tomorrow (yay!). I suck at backwards one foot glides and backwards half swizzle pumps on a circle when my right leg has to be the supporting leg due to an old injury (broken ankle) that leaves my right ankle weak and gives me excessive pronation. I have a surefoot insert in the boot of my new skates to help with the latter. I am in physical therapy for that once a week and recently progressed from twice a week. My physical therapist recently approved me to return to pointe (I am just returning to pointe as an adult beginner pointe student; I'm not far along at all there and never have been) and do 1.5-3.5 hours of ballet a week. She wants to keep me in PT it seems until I start jumping onto a single leg in skating. I also do a periodic fitness barre class and yoga class, but not at all regularly, as they conflict with ballet and skating.

Are there any exercises---ballet or otherwise---I can be doing to help with the backward one for glides and backward half swizzles pumps? For the backward glides I can't seem to keep my leg and foot from turning out and so can't seem to manage a glide in a straight line (I always end up on a curve... pretty but wrong). For the backward swizzle pumps I can't seem to keep my supporting knee straight over my skate and end up using that leg to cheat and do tiny swizzles to push me back onto the circle. I suspect a crap-ton of squats may help in both regards. I hope that I am wrong though because I loathe squats.

Suggestions?

wobblepro said:

For the backward glides I can't seem to keep my leg and foot from turning out and so can't seem to manage a glide in a straight line (I always end up on a curve... pretty but wrong). For the backward swizzle pumps I can't seem to keep my supporting knee straight over my skate and end up using that leg to cheat and do tiny swizzles to push me back onto the circle. I suspect a crap-ton of squats may help in both regards. I hope that I am wrong though because I loathe squats.

Suggestions?

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That sounds like it's from the pronation. Definitely continue working on fixing that. It also sounds like you might already need better/more supportive skates.

I don't think squats would help, fortunately for you! Until the pronation is fixed, I imagine they might make it worse, actually.

I would also work on your balance, especially on one foot.

hanyuufan5 said:

I don't think squats would help, fortunately for you! Until the pronation is fixed, I imagine they might make it worse, actually.

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Oh thank god lol!

wobblepro said:

Are there any exercises---ballet or otherwise---I can be doing to help with the backward one for glides and backward half swizzles pumps? For the backward glides I can't seem to keep my leg and foot from turning out and so can't seem to manage a glide in a straight line (I always end up on a curve... pretty but wrong). For the backward swizzle pumps I can't seem to keep my supporting knee straight over my skate and end up using that leg to cheat and do tiny swizzles to push me back onto the circle. I suspect a crap-ton of squats may help in both regards. I hope that I am wrong though because I loathe squats.

Suggestions?

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It sounds like you're doing a lot of really good off-ice, which is great! I'm not sure if there's a physiological reason that backwards is harder for you, if you can do all these things well going forwards on both sides. If you have good technique, your body position and balance should be really similar gliding backwards and forwards, the only difference being more forward vs back on the blade. It's the push that's different, and backwards pushing is very challenging to learn for the first time. The backwards push requires a lot of mobility in the hips that takes a while to learn, besides the fear factor. Perhaps it's the pushing leg and moving that around that is messing you up, not the gliding leg?

jf12 said:

It's the push that's different, and backwards pushing is very challenging to learn for the first time. The backwards push requires a lot of mobility in the hips that takes a while to learn, besides the fear factor. Perhaps it's the pushing leg and moving that around that is messing you up, not the gliding leg?

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Hmm, that's possible. Even though my right ankle is the one that pronates, I'm also mostly right side dominant, so it is possible that the problem isn't entirely my right supporting leg but, as you suggest, also my left pushing leg. I have pretty good mobility in my hips, though. Well, at least in terms of turnout; I have quite a bit of natural turnout, plus all the years of ballet training gives me more. Not perfect turnout, mind you, but significantly better than most adult ballet students who are just returning to classes after a multi-year hiatus. But perhaps there's a different type of hip mobility that I need for ice skating that is actually underdeveloped or something? Or hip mobility is great but hip stability/strength not so much?

Have you ever tried a slide board and also pilates?

wobblepro said:

Hmm, that's possible. Even though my right ankle is the one that pronates, I'm also mostly right side dominant, so it is possible that the problem isn't entirely my right supporting leg but, as you suggest, also my left pushing leg. I have pretty good mobility in my hips, though. Well, at least in terms of turnout; I have quite a bit of natural turnout, plus all the years of ballet training gives me more. Not perfect turnout, mind you, but significantly better than most adult ballet students who are just returning to classes after a multi-year hiatus. But perhaps there's a different type of hip mobility that I need for ice skating that is actually underdeveloped or something? Or hip mobility is great but hip stability/strength not so much?

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I can't tell without seeing it, but sometimes if you have too much mobility it can throw off your alignment.

Ic3Rabbit said:

Have you ever tried a slide board and also pilates?

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I have one of those in my basement sitting right beside my yoga mat

Ic3Rabbit said:

Have you ever tried a slide board and also pilates?

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I have never even heard of a slide board. I looked up some videos and am intrigued. In particular, I'm thinking of ways it might be useful for me when I need to start working on lunges.

I haven't done a pilates class, but fitness barre and my adult ballet conditioning class both use pilates. The ABC class is cancelled now though, I think, because most of the students are advancing to pointe.

However, my apartment complex has a fitness center with a separate aerobics room, so I suppose there's no compelling reason I couldn't just find some pilates classes on Youtube and follow along on my laptop down there!

Your physical therapist should have the solution. I have been a therapist for 28 years. Proper arch supports should be fitted in your skating boots Your therapist would have checked the strength of your gluteus medius and Maximus which are primary stabilizers for your legs I hope you are working on the strength and proper recruitment of those muscles along with quads. Good to progress from table exercises to weightbearing exercises on 2 legs and then one. Hope you are doing balance activities as well. For example, standing on one leg on an uneven surface. Your therapist should already have that equipment. Hope that helps.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Triple loop said:

Your physical therapist should have the solution. I have been a therapist for 28 years. Proper arch supports should be fitted in your skating boots Your therapist would have checked the strength of your gluteus medius and Maximus which are primary stabilizers for your legs I hope you are working on the strength and proper recruitment of those muscles along with quads. Good to progress from table exercises to weightbearing exercises on 2 legs and then one. Hope you are doing balance activities as well. For example, standing on one leg on an uneven surface. Your therapist should already have that equipment. Hope that helps.

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At home she has me doing single leg mini squats, "monster walks" with a black theraband above my knees, half lunges with the band around my rt ankle to mobilize the joint, 3 ankle strengthening exercises with the black theraband, standing on one foot on a folded in half pillow and leaning forward to touch a hand to 6 "cones" (upright books) in a half circle around me, 2 calf stretches, foam rolling my IT band, an IT band stretch, clamshells, a peroneal (sp?) tendon stretch, and my least favorite thing ever: towel scrunches 3x1 minute. I'm probably forgetting others.

But she doesn't have me do them all daily (though admittedly when I was doing so without knowing I wasn't supposed to I was making more progress). She has me select 15 minutes of exercises each day, so what I do can really vary from day to day. Sounds like I should perhaps emphasize the glute and quad ones!

She also has me in superfeet arch supports in my regular shoes and my skates. I have noticed since getting my own skates, I can do the backward half swizzle pumps much better. My issue now seems to be one of coordination than problems controlling the pronation. It is still an issue though on backward glides on the involved foot. I think what is happening is I am turning out on that leg to avoid pronation and balance better, so my theory is if I concentrate more on staying more toward my outside edge, I may get better at keeping my foot parallel.