The 6.0 System

TryMeLater · Aug 25, 2018

I was watching a news segment on the World Air-Guitar Championships (yep, that's a thing) and noticed that they use a 6.0 scoring system albeit without ordinals.
Which other competitions that you know off use a 6.0 system?

Mathman · Aug 25, 2018

TryMeLater said:
... the World Air-Guitar Championships (yep, that's a thing) ...

I couldn't get past that line.

Maybe figure skating and air guitar are the only two sports that use it!

I will say, though, that I once went to a figure skating show where ice dancer Ben Agosto played his guitar as part of his skating routine. In the peformance that I attended the power went out, and he was left playing guitar with no sound while gliding and twizzling.

Edit: Here is the recent world championship performance. 6.0 5.9 6.0 5.9 5.8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbZc70afngg

chopinskate · Aug 25, 2018

Is it really 6.0 if it's not ordinals?

NymphyNymphy · Aug 25, 2018

The announcers must of hated their jobs in the 6.0 system. Having to say 5.8 5.9 5.8 5.8 5.9 over and over again would drive me insane.

TryMeLater · Aug 25, 2018

chopinskate said:
Is it really 6.0 if it's not ordinals?

That's an interesting question. I think that if the scores are given on a 6.0 scale - it's 6.0.

Mathman · Aug 25, 2018

chopinskate said:
Is it really 6.0 if it's not ordinals?

Well, it is ordinals in the sense that after you get your 5.8s and 5.9s, they are tallied and and ordinal placements, first, second and third are awarded to the highest scorers.

What's missing is factored ordinals to put more weight on the LP versus the SP. As far as i can tell from the video, the competitors give two equally weighted performances before five judges. For each performance the highest and lowest scores are dropped and the three remaining are totaled. Highest possible total is 18 points for each segment, so 36 for the competition.

This performer (Seven Seas) got 35.8. That was 17.8 for the first act and 18.0 (straight 6.0s) for the second act.

chopinskate · Aug 25, 2018

Mathman said:
Well, it is ordinals in the sense that after you get your 5.8s and 5.9s, they are tallied and and ordinal placements, first, second and third are awarded to the highest scorers.

Haha, I guess in a way, every scoring system is ordinals. :laugh:

But you know what I meant there.

Mathman · Aug 25, 2018

NymphyNymphy said:
The announcers must of hated their jobs in the 6.0 system. Having to say 5.8 5.9 5.8 5.8 5.9 over and over again would drive me insane.

I don't know about the announcers, but it was great fun for the audience when that row of scores popped up. Then you got to shout, "Hey, what's wrong with that Yugoslavian judge to give my skater only a 5.5??!!!"

chopinskate · Aug 25, 2018

Mathman said:
I don't know about the announcers, but it was great fun for the audience when that row of scores popped up. Then you got to shout, "Hey, what's wrong with that Yugoslavian judge to give my skater only a 5.5??!!!"

I think it's still fun. "Why did my skater get only a CCoSp3V?! That difficult position was only 10 degrees less than another full rotation, that should still count!! And why only a +1?! That spin was placed in a mostly silent part of music, meaning there wasn't any music it could go with!!"

mau · Aug 25, 2018

TryMeLater said:
I was watching a news segment on the World Air-Guitar Championships (yep, that's a thing) and noticed that they use a 6.0 scoring system albeit without ordinals.
Which other competitions that you know off use a 6.0 system?

Will this become an Olympic sport before Synch Skating? :biggrin:

NymphyNymphy · Aug 25, 2018

Mathman said:
I don't know about the announcers, but it was great fun for the audience when that row of scores popped up. Then you got to shout, "Hey, what's wrong with that Yugoslavian judge to give my skater only a 5.5??!!!"

Sometimes I wish we had the ordinal system back. We sacrificed the excitement of the 6.0 system for corruption-prevention. Oh wait.. we still have corruption... Time to bring back the 6.0 system!! At least it was tragically comedic when scandals happened right? Imagine Sochi with the 6.0 system! Eastern European judges giving Yuna's adios program a 5.5 in Artistic Impression. Most of the skating world would be on the ground hollering for days.

CellarDweller · Aug 25, 2018

I will admit that sometimes I miss that 6.0 system.

Sam-Skwantch · Aug 25, 2018

Mathman said:
I don't know about the announcers, but it was great fun for the audience when that row of scores popped up. Then you got to shout, "Hey, what's wrong with that Yugoslavian judge to give my skater only a 5.5??!!!"

Ohh that Vanessa Riley again :roll5:

Mathman · Aug 25, 2018

chopinskate said:
I think it's still fun. "Why did my skater get only a CCoSp3V?! That difficult position was only 10 degrees less than another full rotation, that should still count!! And why only a +1?! That spin was placed in a mostly silent part of music, meaning there wasn't any music it could go with!!"

Well put.

Still, the difference is this. Only a skating expert can indulge in the kind of analysis and criticism that you illustrate, and only after looking at protocols and videos after the fact.

With 6.0, any casual channel-flipper can say, "I enjoyed that performance, give him a 5.9. The other guy was boring."

As for my own experiences as a fan, I have to admit that I am intimidated by the CoP. A panel of authoritative judges and tech specialists tells me, that performance was worth 197.14 points." I think it is those two digits after the decimal point that scare me. Who am I to say, "No, judges, that performance clearly deserved at least 197.39"?

On the other hand, I do enjoy watching the running tally mount up as the current skater chases the leader in tech points.

DanseMacabre · Aug 25, 2018

CellarDweller said:
I will admit that sometimes I miss that 6.0 system.

I miss the immediate visceral impact of seeing a scoreboard light up with 6's after a truly phenomenal skate (like Michelle Kwan at 04 Nationals). Having a code of points makes a lot of sense, but reading protocols after a competition's ended to get the nitty gritty of the score just isn't as special. I feel this way about gymnastics and the 10.0 too. It makes more sense but on an emotional level, it doesn't have the same oomph.

gkelly · Aug 25, 2018

Mathman said:
Well, it is ordinals in the sense that after you get your 5.8s and 5.9s, they are tallied and and ordinal placements, first, second and third are awarded to the highest scorers.

If they're adding up the scores from all the judges (after trimming) for each skater, and not looking at how each judge individually ranked the skaters against each other, then it's not an ordinal system.

Any scoring system for any sport in which multiple athletes/teams compete against each other will come up with an overall ranking of the athletes, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc., at the end of the day. Those are ordinal numbers, but they're not necessarily using ordinals as part of the process to arrive at them.

Usually we refer to the final placements for a competition segment as "placements." And the weighting of placements in individual competition segments to arrive at an overall placement, used in ISU skating starting in 1980-81, was called "factored placements."

"Ordinals" means something different.

The majority or OBO calculations in skating used ordinals. Adding up scores, whether the maximum score is 6.0 or 10.0 or something else, as was done in many professional skating competitions and reality TV shows, is not using ordinals to arrive at the placements, even though the contestants do end up ranked by the panel as a whole at the end of the process (barring any ties).

lesnar001 · Aug 25, 2018

Mathman said:
Well put.

Still, the difference is this. Only a skating expert can indulge in the kind of analysis and criticism that you illustrate, and only after looking at protocols and videos after the fact.

With 6.0, any casual channel-flipper can say, "I enjoyed that performance, give him a 5.9. The other guy was boring."

As for my own experiences as a fan, I have to admit that I am intimidated by the CoP. A panel of authoritative judges and tech specialists tells me, that performance was worth 197.14 points." I think it is those two digits after the decimal point decimal that scare me. Who am I to say, "No, judges, that performance clearly deserved at least 197.39"?

On the other hand, I do enjoy watching the running tally mount up as the current skater chases the leader in tech points.

IMO the best thing about CoP is that a skater who had a sub-par short program is not neccessarily out of contention.

plushyfan · Aug 26, 2018

I loved it! I loved the figure skating, ice dance in that era the most!!

TryMeLater · Aug 26, 2018

gkelly said:
The majority or OBO calculations in skating used ordinals. Adding up scores, whether the maximum score is 6.0 or 10.0 or something else, as was done in many professional skating competitions and reality TV shows, is not using ordinals to arrive at the placements, even though the contestants do end up ranked by the panel as a whole at the end of the process (barring any ties).

Yes, but a scale of 6.0 was always unique to skating.
That's why it's surprising to find other events where they use a 6.0 scale.
Had they used a 10.0 scale or a 5.0 scale, it wouldn't as interesting to me.

anonymoose_au · Aug 26, 2018

TryMeLater said:
I was watching a news segment on the World Air-Guitar Championships (yep, that's a thing) and noticed that they use a 6.0 scoring system albeit without ordinals.
Which other competitions that you know off use a 6.0 system?

I know about the World Air-Guitar Championships because I think it might be something that I can actually compete in! I've got a mighty fine air guitar repitoire if I say so myself.

But I didn't know it had a 6.0 judging system! That's interesting, I'd have thought they'd take it up to 11.0

I miss the 6.0 system in skating...because I'm mathematically challenged and trying to figure out CoP is too hard for me. Plus I liked the judging not been anonymous so you could see who gave what score and if there was an outlier you could spot them right up. In the current system who knows what's happening there!

The 6.0 System

TryMeLater

Mathman

chopinskate

NymphyNymphy

TryMeLater

Mathman

chopinskate

Mathman

chopinskate

mau

3Lz3Lo3Lo3Lo3Lo

NymphyNymphy

CellarDweller

Ice Time

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

Mathman

DanseMacabre

gkelly

lesnar001

plushyfan

TryMeLater

anonymoose_au

Insert weird opinion here

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