Pronation and backwards edges?

I just finished up my first set of group lessons, and I passed up through USFSA Basic 4. I was a little disappointed because my backwards edges and crossovers were the only things holding me back from passing Basic 5, and I was hoping I could brainstorm some possible fixes, since I don’t think I’m going to be able to afford to sign up for classes in the fall and I want to have some constructive practice times so I’m ready when I can get back into classes.

The backward edge issues are what is really mystifying me right now. Crossovers I know I just haven’t practiced enough, and my balance is pretty decent on forward edges and one foot glides in both directions, but holding an edge - especially a BO edge - seems to be so inconsistent and shakey.

My group instructor spent a little time watching me (unfortunately the format of the class doesn’t leave her with more than 10-15 minutes of time to work with me specifically) and had the following observations/ideas:

1) My BI edges are definitely stronger than my BO edges. BI edges tend to start strong but then start to curve deeper/tighter until I lose my balance. BO edges start off shaky, and then often collapse to flats and sometimes all the way to inside edges. My FI edges are also stronger than my FOs, but my FOs are definitely acceptable (I’ve been practicing forward consecutive edges in anticipation of testing pre-bronze MITF someday).

2) I can hold a RBO edge in landing position much easier than a simple glide on an RBO on the circle.

3) My BO edges got a little better when I focused on raising the quad and squaring the hip of my free leg.

4) When I continued to struggle with these for the third week in a row, she suggested that I might either have a pronation issue, my boots might be beginning to break down, or both.

I’m currently skating in GAM Concepts, with MK Pros (I upgraded from the stock Mirages when I got an unbelievable deal on a brand new pair of the Pros, and was having a hell of a time with turns and spins). Concepts are rated for singles up to axel, with a stiffness of 49 - so I think they’re similar to the old Jackson Marquis. I’ve been skating in them since March and although I do feel like I need to re-tie them more frequently than I used to, I find it hard to think that they’re already broken down (I’m 5’7” and about 200lbs, so I’m a stocky dude, and I skate with a good knee bend, but I haven’t been doing jumps other than bunny hops and some clumsy mazurkas). They do have some creasing but I’ve been told that’s normal for boots that have been properly broken in.

I think there is some stock to the idea that I have a gait issue - but what’s funny is off the ice I seem to have signs of a mild *supination* - the outside of my shoes wears out faster, my IT bands are often tight, etc.

Another factor that might be coming into play is the ice. I skate at two different rinks - the skating club facility (where my class is) and the local hockey rink. The ice at the skating club is a fair bit softer, and while I’d think that this would make holding a good edge easier, I feel like I’m having a much easier time with backward edges at the hockey rink, on the harder ice - the ice just seems “glidier.” The result of this is that I’ll practice on my own and feel like my backward edges are improving, then try to do them for my instructor and I’ll barely travel a foot before falling off the edge. In addition - I don’t get a chance to warm up at all before class, so I’m often hopping right on the ice and trying to bang these skills out with maybe five minutes of warm up time - whereas if I’m practicing at a public session I have two hours to do whatever I want, and in general I start doing my best skating after 15-20 minutes of stroking, swizzles, and slaloms to get used to being on the ice. So it could be that I just need to practice more across different types of ice and just feel more solid in the skill.

My questions:

1) How does pronation/supination affect inside vs outside edges? I would think a pronation would make outside edges more difficult, and a supination would affect inside edges - is this the case?

2) Assuming the pronation/supination is a factor, is it worth maybe trying a foot bed like the Riedell R-Fit to support my foot better on backward edges? Or is this something where I should see a fitter before trying anything?

3) Is it possible I could need a stiffer boot - like something rated for doubles - due to my weight and the fact that I’m working on skills that require deeper edges than I’m used to? Being relatively new to figure skating and growing up with hockey skates, I’m never quite sure how to tell when I’m not getting enough support - and I’m reluctant to blame my equipment if the issue is on me.

Thanks so much for your advice!

If your pronation is not extreme, it could be an ankle strength and/or boot fit issue. Perhaps insoles like superfeet would help? I have high arches and need insoles in my skates to be comfortable... You can try ankle strength exercises (toe raises, etc.) but do see a fitter/pro and have your boots checked as well.

You could look at taking your boots back to the shop and getting your mounting adjusted - either shifted from side to side or getting a tiny shim in the mounting. A good fitter can help you there. Backward edges are a lot harder than forward edges for most people. I wouldn't worry about stiffness if you're not doing jumps and the boots feel ok to you. Part of skating in less stiff boots as a beginner is to build strength and ankle bend.

My skater has a pronation issue we discovered after visiting Harlick for a fitting. We didn't get the Harlick's, but ended up at Sp-Teri (didn't get those either) but bought a new pair of Jackson's there. They fitted a cork wedge under her sock liner. Her edges in jumps and 3 turns are much improved. Any good fitter should be able to make one for you. I asked ours about the R-fit, and she said with 2 bootmakers in the area there wasn't much point to going that route. Might be worth trying if you're not near a good shop.

Go back to your fitter and explain the challenges you are having. Bring the boots with you and see what they suggest. It could be any number of issues with the boot (if that is truly the source of the problem) but they would be best equipped to determine the causes. They may look at the boot and see how it is wearing, they may look at your feet more closely (in and out of the boots) and come up with a diagnoses that way.

This is assuming your fitter is at a proper figure skating shop and not some pro shop at the rink. If you didn't go to a specialist, you could always bring the skates anyway and ask for an opinion - they may say you are OK or may suggest modifications (for a fee) to make it work. And if it turns out you need new skates, you'll at least be in the right place for that.

I also have pronation, in my case in just one foot. Like you, it makes outside edges on that foot harder. I am finding that a combination of a superfeet insert in my boot and off ice strengthening exercises for my right foot, ankle and glute have been helping. The exercises I do are single leg squats, towel scrunches and inversions and eversions with a theraband. They help me align my hip and knee over my toes and keep my ankle stable so my foot doesn't collapse inward onto my inside edge as easily.