Women's Artistic Gymnastics | Page 9 | Golden Skate

Women's Artistic Gymnastics

macy

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Nov 12, 2011
i may have asked this earlier in the thread, but does anyone know the reasoning for cutting team spots? it's gone from 7 to 4 since 1996.
 

MissBeeFarm

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Feb 22, 2018
i may have asked this earlier in the thread, but does anyone know the reasoning for cutting team spots? it's gone from 7 to 4 since 1996.

One reason is the introduction of Rhythmic Gymnastics (1984 individual, and especially 1996 groups) and Trampoline (2000) to the Olympics. The IOC generally wants to keep the number of athletes per discipline consistent. So in order to accomodate Rhythmic and Trampoline, the number of athletes in AG had to be cut. It's also the reason the IOC likes to add swimming events or nordic skiing or the team event in Figure skating. It means more events (aka more money), but the athletes competing stay the same, so there won't be more athletes despite having more events.

There's also the FIG. They were interested in making teams smaller to give smaller teams a chance to be competitive, because less depth would be required. Now, it can be argued that it's still mostly the same nations winning team medals (USA, RUS, CHN), but it can't be denied that other teams have been catching up and are always looking for their chance. Teams like Belgium for example would really struggle to be competitive if they had to field a 7-member-team.
 

Edwin

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How does television broadcasting schedules etc factor in?
Fewer competitors, the IMO bad decision of no-touch all around and apparatus finals, etc. weren't these also made to make broadcasts shorter? And FIG marketing gymnastics to broadcasters also leaves something to be desired, us in Europe often having to rely on illegally shared live streams from South America for many of the GP events being geo-blocked to our own internets.

The amount of actual gymnastic routines presented in a EC or WC finals make the women's event are over in 90 minutes or less even.

Men's gymnastics has generally held my interest more than women's, men's events are often down to the wire in tension and excitement, the very landing of the very last competitor often deciding the outcome. WAG finals often being a splat fest, with way too many falls.
 

MissBeeFarm

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Feb 22, 2018
Yes, you're right. TV broadcasting is a reason as well. That's also one of the reasons they got rid of compulsories :)cry:).

WAG is a mess. Everybody is so desperately trying to catch up to the US and they are falling all over the place as a result. And the US is so far ahead they can fall as well and still win (see Biles AA win last year). When Biles retires it should be a little closer again as she's simply untouchable (by international and US athletes alike). But nobody does high difficulty as well and as consistent as the US, so I wouldn't get my hopes up for exciting team or AA competitions in WAG in the future. MAG is the better sport by most measures currently, there's no denying that.
 

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie
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I'm at least 2 weeks behind in my NCAA WAG viewing thanks to Nationals and 4CCs. Going to go to NCAAs for MAG as it's only a few hour drive from my house. Want to see Yul Moldauer before he graduates (he's a senior this year). Maggie Nichols can wait until next year as she's just a junior. Thank Goddess I can watch replays up to a month later with watch ESPN.
 

MissBeeFarm

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Feb 22, 2018
I'm at least 2 weeks behind in my NCAA WAG viewing thanks to Nationals and 4CCs. Going to go to NCAAs for MAG as it's only a few hour drive from my house. Want to see Yul Moldauer before he graduates (he's a senior this year). Maggie Nichols can wait until next year as she's just a junior. Thank Goddess I can watch replays up to a month later with watch ESPN.

Wow, that's awesome! I find MAG NCAA really fascinating, since the gymnasts are often in a very different position compared to the women. For the women NCAA is usually what happens after their elite career while for the men it's often one and the same (having an elite Code in college as well, no 10.0). The level of gymnastics in the men's college competition is pretty awesome.
 

moonvine

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Wow, that's awesome! I find MAG NCAA really fascinating, since the gymnasts are often in a very different position compared to the women. For the women NCAA is usually what happens after their elite career while for the men it's often one and the same (having an elite Code in college as well, no 10.0). The level of gymnastics in the men's college competition is pretty awesome.

Yes, I can't wait. Also my favorite former MAG is a coach for University of Oklahoma now. Love me some Chris Brooks! Also the tickets are $30 or $35 I think. So very reasonable. I personally prefer the 10.0 system myself, though. There are a few ladies who compete in NCAA and elite simultaneously but not very many. One of our (University of Alabama's) women's gymnasts just won a silver in vault at the World Championships behind Simone Biles, and Trinity Thomas of Florida is on the US National Women's Gymnastics team as well.
 

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie
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Men's gymnastics has generally held my interest more than women's, men's events are often down to the wire in tension and excitement, the very landing of the very last competitor often deciding the outcome. WAG finals often being a splat fest, with way too many falls.

The nutty thing, though, is that that's what's being seen as "advancing the sport." When gymnastics was scored from a 10.0 being very clean was what was necessary. Putting a toe out of bounds could lose a competition, let alone falling. Now the ladies take big steps out of bounds, can even fall if their difficulty is large enough; granted that's seldom and one is typically talking about Simone Biles. I wish you could see NCAA gymnastics - it is still scored from a 10.0 and beautiful, clean gymnastics is what's wanted. That is mostly what I watch. They compete every week, usually on a Friday, and a competition usually lasts about 1 hour 30 minutes for the ladies. I watched two earlier this evening.
It doesn't cost a lot to attend, they make it a lot of fun, and it's a great family friendly night out. The men's isn't shown as much on TV. My brother and sister in law live in Norman, OK, and I was going to try to go watch a competition there, but my indiscretions at US Nationals are probably not going to make that super affordable. The men's NCAA comp is 3 hours from me vs 8 hours from Norman.

If you can tolerate US broadcasts, USA Gymnastics has a channel on Youtube where they put everything they have rights to, which is basically everything they compete in other than the Olympics. It is a LOT of material. I would hope a VPN would get around geoblocking, but I've never tried as I'm not geoblocked. The Balance Beam situation lists every competition every week and how to get it. Some of it is free, some you have to subscribe to cable channels to watch.
 

Edwin

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How is MAG NCAA presented in the media? Does it get enough coverage?

WAG NCAA is all over the gymnastics discussion boards and its coverage is available on the internet.
 

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie
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How is MAG NCAA presented in the media? Does it get enough coverage?

WAG NCAA is all over the gymnastics discussion boards and its coverage is available on the internet.

Sadly it gets almost no coverage. I've been trying to find some meets to watch. I had to send a message to the MAG Oklahoma facebook page to ask them if their meets were available for viewing. Haven't heard back but it is 4 am here, so....

One of the coolest sports viewing things I've ever done is attend the MAG Olympic Trials. I was so lucky the 2016 trials were held in St Louis, MO, about 35 miles east of me. Very exciting! Success breeds popularity to an extent, and our men are just not as successful as are our women.
 

Edwin

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Yeah, and as with any artistic sport, mens gymnastics isn't considered 'masculine' enough by the general populace and sponsors.
 

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie
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Yeah, and as with any artistic sport, mens gymnastics isn't considered 'masculine' enough by the general populace and sponsors.

Well clearly anyone who doesn't consider them masculine enough has never laid eyes on one. Anyway, if you are interested, the Oklahoma Sooners Facebook page responded to my request for information promptly. Their meets are covered by Fox Sports, but unlike the ones covered by ESPN, it is hit or miss if they will be replayed, so if a person wants to see them they need to remember to do it live. http://www.soonersports.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=31000&SPID=127248&SPSID=750342

Also, the Winter Cup is now up on the USA Gymnastics page. Attendance is abysmal, it looks like a high school lacrosse meet or something. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laDLJBvycZA&t=3017s
 

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie
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Yes, you're right. TV broadcasting is a reason as well. That's also one of the reasons they got rid of compulsories :)cry:).

WAG is a mess. Everybody is so desperately trying to catch up to the US and they are falling all over the place as a result. And the US is so far ahead they can fall as well and still win (see Biles AA win last year). When Biles retires it should be a little closer again as she's simply untouchable (by international and US athletes alike). But nobody does high difficulty as well and as consistent as the US, so I wouldn't get my hopes up for exciting team or AA competitions in WAG in the future. MAG is the better sport by most measures currently, there's no denying that.

I was fortunate enough to watch UCLA vs Washington WAG this weekend. I love Katelyn Ohashi's story. She is kind of similar to Gracie (and many other female athletes) in that she had disordered eating and was pretty miserable competing in the top tier of her sport. She went to UCLA, found her love for her sport again, found her voice, found her joy...I just wish it didn't have to end at the end of 4 years, that there was a path to keep it going longer. Here's her interview on GMA: https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/...la-gymnast-katelyn-ohashi-speaks-gma-60440373

And here's the meet: http://www.espn.com/watch/player?id=2d7bf642-c260-4c13-b9f6-dfe07a22fe0e

Going back to Gracie, my selfish wish is that she return to competition, but not if it makes her miserable. My unselfish wish is that she find this sort of joy, inside or outside of the sport. I don't care if she finds it in knitting. As long as she teaches me the best snowplow stop that's every been taught too:laugh2:

Oh, and as far as your dislike of WAG due to its predictability, that is not true at all in NCAA's. I've been to the last two NCAA WAG Championships and it was down to the wire both times. I just am glad Simone Biles turned pro and didn't go to UCLA as she had planned at one time, because that would have made everything quite boring for 4 years.
 

Edwin

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Well clearly anyone who doesn't consider them masculine enough has never laid eyes on one.

Hahaha, there have been rumours of girls lining up at the athletes hotel rear entrance to get 'some action with the gymnast guys' at many a Championships.
 

MissBeeFarm

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Feb 22, 2018
The popularity of MAG very much depends on the countries, though... In quite a few nations it's more popular than WAG and gets more coverage or MAG and WAG share the same popularity, e.g. Japan, China, North and South Korea, Germany, Great Britain.
 

Eleanor

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Mar 23, 2018
The popularity of MAG very much depends on the countries, though... In quite a few nations it's more popular than WAG and gets more coverage or MAG and WAG share the same popularity, e.g. Japan, China, North and South Korea, Germany, Great Britain.
I LOVE your name :luv17:
I sort of stopped following AG since before Rio. Has she retired ? Who's left on the russian team ?
I saw lately that Musty returned as an all arounder. Only exciting news for me so far :) My Queen is back
 

Edwin

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This year's European Championships in the Individual All Around just concluded, and Melanie De Jesus Dos Santos from France became European Champion, GBR's Elissa Downie was second, Russia's Angelina Melnikove was third.

You can re-watch here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wblSTVfMVc (Spanish commentary) and here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POZkrxioEus (Italian commentary)

Shame we don't get a four apparatus feed somewhere
 

MissBeeFarm

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Feb 22, 2018
I LOVE your name :luv17:
I sort of stopped following AG since before Rio. Has she retired ? Who's left on the russian team ?
I saw lately that Musty returned as an all arounder. Only exciting news for me so far :) My Queen is back

Thank you! I'm glad someone gets it :biggrin:

Paseka has had extensive back surgery last year but is back now. Just a few hours ago she became European Champion on vault once more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FR3b_-giVQ

As you said, Mustafina is back. Melnikova is looking wonderful and consistent (so far an AA bronze and UB silver at Euros, floor final is tomorrow). Simakova is struggeling a bit but is the best Russian beam worker, so that's something. Ilyankova continues to be a bars specialist winning the Euros bars title today. Akhaimova is coming into her own on vault and floor. Spiridonova is still a bars specialist and continuing to compete. Eremina has had back surgery as well last year and is slowly coming back. Nabieva and Tutkhalyan are competing for their local teams. Sadly, Alexeeva has decided to end her career in the national team and is focussing on college (Stanford). Komova seems to have retired for good. Afanasyeva is now a choreographer at Round Lake!

The juniors are very promising, though. Listunova (2005), Urazova (2004), Gerasimova (2004) and Astafyeva (2004) won Jesolo gold over the Americans!
 
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