US Ladies, Hall of Fame- Post Kwan, Cohen

With a few long time US Ladies seemingly retiring in the last year, ladies who have been part of the backbone of the ladies program for 10+ years, I was wondering what are the prospects of entering the elusive US Hall of Fame.

Considering the period 1990 through 2005, 8 ladies who competed are in the Hall, Yamaguchi, Trenary, Zayak (1 yr after 1990), Kerrighan, Tara, Hughes, Kwan, and Cohen. Most have Olympic or World Gold. Kerrighan and Cohen don't, but have Olympic silver and much additional hardware.

Post Cohen, basically 2005 to the present, 0 Ladies were added to the Skating HOF. Of course a skater must be retired 5 years, but its still notable there have been no additions after Cohen. Meisner has a World Gold, and has been retired 5 years. while Czisny has a pretty good record, last competed at a regionals in 2013, so should be eligible soon based on the 5 year rule.

Of course, while all 8 Ladies had rivals, the international competition wasn't as deep as it is today. And it could be argued none of the eight had to face a Yuna Kim or a Medvedeva. I decided to review The records of the most successful us ladies post Cohen and compare records.

I first looked at ladies competing 2005-through 2007. Emily Hughes popped, up. though I don't remember her well. She finished 7th in the 2006 Olympics, and 8th and 9th in two worlds appearances. She finished second in one 4 Continents appearance. She entered 8 grand prix, earning a bronze. In 4 Nationals, she has a silver and bronze.

Kimmie Meisner was reviewed. She was 6th in the '06 Olympics. If the HOF wants world Gold, she has it, earning a gold, 4th and 7th in three appearances. She has a gold medal at 4 continents, made the GP final once, and has a gold, 2 silvers and a bronze in 8 grand prix. In 4 Nationals, earned a gold, silver and bronze.

Next, Alissa Czisny. She had a longer career than I remember, but was very inconsistent. She unfortunately, never made the Olympics, but was 15th 11th, 5th and 22nd (injured) in worlds competition. Where she shined internationally was in the grand prix, winning the GPF plus a 5th and 6th in that competition, In regaular grand prix, she had 15 competitions, winning 8 medals (4 Gold). She was in 11 nationals (the same as Wagner and Nagasu), her career being cut short with injury. She has two National Championships, a silver and bronze. Is this HOF worthy?

I'll take a look at the class of 2008 tomorrow.

I think Mirai and Ashley deserve to be in there no one else post 2006 though.

Since 2005, i definitely think Wagner has the highest credentials to be inducted. behind her, probably Czisny and Nagasu.

No one is worth inducting post-Cohen other than Ashley, once she is eligible. Meissner has a WGM but no legacy, no memorable moments or performances. Ashley has a superior Nationals, GP, and GPF legacy.

I used to be a huge Czisny fan, but I don't think she's deserving either (unfortunately).

Mirai's single ratified 3A at the Olympics could be worth inducting her for, but she has minimal wins/medals overall compared to Meissner and Czisny.

I wouldn't put anyone post-Cohen in the Hall of Fame. Sad. Maybe that will change soon.

I would consider Kimmie Meissner for the Hall of Fame.

She may not have had a long career but she did have a 3-axel at Nationals and she did win Worlds, and also a National title.
She packed some hefty accomplishments into a short period of time.
Not that it counts - but I also think she is one of the nicest people ever to lace on skates.

I also would consider Mirai Nagasu and Ashley Wagner - but they are not retired yet.

Mirai Nagasu is probably next in line, once she retires. The 3A at the Olympics is her ticket. Being a 2 time Olympian helps her case too. Ashley Wagner is the only other notable contender with her WSM (although it should have been bronze but w/e).

Good assessment of the current ladies as possible inductees. 42

I think Ashley is worthy. Her medal record internationally is behind Sasha, but at Nationals is stronger. Obviously, that reflects that Sasha had to contend with a strong skater at home (Michelle) while Ashley had intense competition from abroad (Yuna, Mao, and Carolina). Ashley would have held her own in Sasha's era, especially since skaters didn't need a 3/3 to do well most of the time.

Since the discussion is about the U.S. hall of fame, rather than the World hall of fame, it is not completely clear how a skater should be evaluated who had impressive results nationally but a lesser impact on the world scene. For instance, the 2018 inductees were Michael Weiss and Ina & Zimmerman.

Weiss medalled eight straight years at U.S. Nationals, with three championships. He has also been active in promoting figure skating and in charitable activities on behalf of the sport. Internationally, he went to worlds 7 times, as the best America had, but came away with only two bronze medals.

Ina and Zimmerman won three U.S. championships and a silver, and Ina and Dungjen won two 1st and 3 2nds. Although between the two teams they went to the Olympics three times and worlds 8 times, they never medalled in any major international competition.

Ashley Wagner's resume seems at least comparable, and is actually stronger due to a scattering of Grand Prix wins along with her world silver and three U.S. titles. During the shank of her career she was always in the conversation.

Edit: Corretion. Ina and Zimmerman grabbed a world bronze in 2002 and both Ina & Zinnermnan and Ina & Dungjen have won medals on the Grand Prix curcuit.

If Ashley is not inducted into the USFS Hall of fame I will be indignant. Whether you like her or not she was the one consistent US woman for 10 years, winning Grand Prix events (5 gold), GPF medals, 4CC gold and world silver. Mirai, other than landing a 3A at the Olympics does not have the credentials. Gracie should be more in the conversation than Mirai.

I don't see any reason why Ashley Wagner would be kept out of the HOF.

She is a 3 time National Champion.
And her World Silver broke a 10 year drought for US Ladies.

Those sound like HOF worth accomplishments to me.

Surprised by lack of Gracie nods. Lack of major world individual medal notwithstanding, she has won two national titles and was the face of US skating for basically a whole quad, a serious medal threat for numerous worlds and Grand Prix events, and a major factor in team Olympic bronze medal in 2014. That is certainly enough for inclusion in USHOF.

Ashley has better credentials IMO, but Gracie is next, then maaaybe Mirai, but Mirai has spent too much time as a has been / forgotten champ I think to be a solid contender.

Mathman said:

Since the discussion is about the U.S. hall of fame, rather than the World hall of fame, it is not completely clear how a skater should be evaluated who had impressive results nationally but a lesser impact on the world scene. For instance, the 2018 inductees were Michael Weiss and Ina & Zimmerman.

Weiss medalled eight straight years at U.S. Nationals, with three championships. He has also been active in promoting figure skating and in charitable activities on behalf of the sport. Internationally, he went to worlds 7 times, as the best America had, but came away with only two bronze medals.

Ina and Zimmerman won three U.S. championships and a silver, and Ina and Dungjen won two 1st and 3 2nds. Although between the two teams they went to the Olympics three times and worlds 8 times, they never medalled in any major international competition.

Ashley Wagner's resume seems at least comparable, and is actually stronger due to a scattering of Grand Prix wins along with her world silver and three U.S. titles. During the shank of her career she was always in the conversation.

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I agree with the point you made, but must add that I/Z did win a bronze medal at Worlds once. And I/D were fourth at the Olympics (1998?). That may not be world shattering, but only brings it more to the fore that Ashley could be a good candidate. Especially with all those GP's, just like you said.

Ahem. Says the non-American.

temadd said:

If Ashley is not inducted into the USFS Hall of fame I will be indignant. Whether you like her or not she was the one consistent US woman for 10 years, winning Grand Prix events (5 gold), GPF medals, 4CC gold and world silver. Mirai, other than landing a 3A at the Olympics does not have the credentials. Gracie should be more in the conversation than Mirai.

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Absolutely. She's still the only US lady to medal at World's since 2006.

crazydreamer said:

Surprised by lack of Gracie nods. Lack of major world individual medal notwithstanding, she has won two national titles and was the face of US skating for basically a whole quad, a serious medal threat for numerous worlds and Grand Prix events, and a major factor in team Olympic bronze medal in 2014. That is certainly enough for inclusion in USHOF.

Ashley has better credentials IMO, but Gracie is next, then maaaybe Mirai, but Mirai has spent too much time as a has been / forgotten champ I think to be a solid contender.

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Why in the world would Gracie come next? This coming from one who stans Gracie and dislikes Ashley. Being "the face" of US skating is not an actual athletic accomplishment, and neither is existing as a "medal threat. " Now, when she beats her disease, comes back and wins some titles, then let's talk HOF. Ashley Wagner has all of Gracie's accomplishments and then some. IMO, she has been "the face" of US skating just as much as Gracie has this generation. Only issue with her is she doesn't know how to keep her ego in check, and has probably ruined her own reputation with USFS by acting like an entitled brat, including throwing a very generous opportunity of going to the World Championships back in their faces. Can't see them appreciating any of that very much.

Based on competitive results, it's pretty clear who the top contender should be. In addition to some GP medals, national titles, and winning 4CC, Ashley Wagner has placed 2nd at Worlds, putting an end to the 10 year US ladies medal drought. That should be more than enough to earn her a spot in the U.S. hall of fame imo!

Continuing on to the class of 2008.

We first come to Caroline, who was highly touted coming from juniors with a junior worlds win. She finished 3rd in 08 Nationals, but was age limited from worlds, and sadly never made worlds or Olympics. Since she is a sentimental, and one of my favorites, I'll include her here. At four continents, she has two bronzes and a fourth. She was in a World Team Trophy for the US, finishing a strong 3rd personally. She made a GPF, finishing 4th. She was in 12 Grand Prix, and earned a silver and 2 bronze. She was in 10 Nationals. earning a bronze and 2 pewters. The one thing I remember of Caroline was at a Nationals where she was the only skater to get a standing ovation, for her gorgeous skating, in both the short and FS. It brought a lot of people to tears.

Next, Rachael Flatt. I'm surprised no one has mentioned her. From 2008 through 2011, she was better than Wagner and gave the more talented Nagasu and Czisny all they could handle. She was 7th in Vancouver Olympics, and 5th 9th and 12th in three world appearances. The 12th was on a stress fracture in her leg, where she went from a Federation golden girl to getting the wrath of the Fed. for competing injured. She had a 4th and 7th at 4CC, and made GPF once, finishing a distant 6th. She was in 9 Grand Prix, earning 4 silvers. She was in 7 Nationals, being distracted at the end with studies at Stanford. But for a 4 year stretch, she had a gold and 3 silvers against Nagasu, Wagner, Czisny and Zhang. She had some of the best jump technique, was a good performer and was usually immune to pressure.

Next is Nagasu, who had a good junior record, winning JGPF and 2nd in Jun worlds. She was a 2 time Olympian, and but for a backroom deal, could have been a 3 time Olympian. She was 4th in Vancouver, and a disappointing 10th in Korea. However, She contributed greatly to the US team Bronze in Korea, finishing 2nd personally with an 8 triple program, In worlds she was 7th, 10th, and 10th, actually winning a worlds short in 2010 over Yuna and Mao, them crumbling under pressure in the FS and loosing a medal. She's been good at 4cc, with a close 3rd behind Ando and Mao in 2011, and earning another silver and bronze. She never made GPF. In 19 Grand Prix, she has 2 silver and 2 bronze. In Nationals, in eleven entries, she has a gold, 2 silvers, 2 bronze and 2 pewters. She was one of the most talented skaters, has earned a lot of hardware, but with that talent I sometimes think she could have earned more; but she still had a career most skaters would die for.

Wagner. Coming out of juniors, she was behind Zhang, Nagasu and Flatt. If I remember, it was when she moved to CA and had Nicks as a coach that her career blossomed. She clearly has more hardware than any US lady post Kwan/Cohen. In Sochi, she was 7th and in the team event, was 4th personally. She has 7 worlds appearances, finishing with a silver in Boston, plus a 4th, two 5ths and two 7ths. All very respectable. She has been in 5 World Team Trophy/Challenge events, finishing 2nd, two 3rds, a fourth and 6th personally. She has been in 5 GPF, getting a silver and two bronze. She has been in 21 regular Grand Prix, earning a high percentage 14 medals (5 gold). And finally Nationals, eleven appearances, 3 Gold, 1 Silver, 3 Bronze and 3 Pewter. From 2012 through 2016, she was the dominant US lady (along with Gold).

Tomorrow, a review of the final 4 successful (IMO) US skaters after the class of 2008.

Why isnt Tonya in the hall of fame for being the first american woman to land triple axels?