Top five skaters/pairs of each discipline ever?

Who are they and why do you think so?

Try to be objective. There can be several criteria to evaluate such a thing, and it would be interesting to see what each individual weights the most.


(Runs and hides)

I'm just gonna lob Michelle Kwan's name in here like a grenade and scamper away.

chopinskate said:

(Runs and hides)

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(joins you with a giant bucket of popcorn because this thread is going to need it)

ETA:

Now that I've thought about it for a whole two seconds (up from .05 seconds), I'll add:

Ladies:
Michelle Kwan - So nice she merits mentioning twice
Yuna Kim - Should've been two Olympic golds tbh (Don't @ me, I'm not going to be arguing that point with anyone)
Mao Asada - Triple! Axel! (She and Yuna also provided the best and most wholesome rivalry in skating)
Katarina Witt - Her figures left something to be desired but in in terms of performance, she's a legend

Men:
Yuzuru Hanyu - Duh
Evgeni Plushenko - His skating was never my cup of tea but his skill and accomplishments are undeniable.

Pairs:
Aljona Savchenko and all of her partners (I liked her with Robin but her programs with Bruno were masterpieces)
Gordeeva and Grinkov - Their Moonlight Sonata alone would merit a GOAT award
Shen and Zhao - Legends.

Dance:
Virtue/Moir - Also duh

I feel like I'm not knowledgeable enough in all disciplines to pick 5 for each so I'll leave it at that.

I'll only do Men and Ladies, since I'm not that familiar with dance and pairs,

Men;

Yuzuru Hanyu; There's not enough to be said about him, always pushing the sport forward. I do believe he is the best skater ever; the smoothness in his skating, the difficult transitions in and out of jumping, the nuances in his choreographic sequences -in the whole programs-, how he connects completely to the music. His triple axel which is a dream to watch, his textbook technique. Really, I could just go on and on.

Alexei Yagudin; I mean have you seen Winter? That program speaks for itself.

Evgeni Plushenko; His accomplishments are quite something. I don't really enjoy his skating, but one cannot deny everything he has done for the sport.

Brian Orser; Two words: Triple Axel.

Javier Fernandez; He became one the best in the world with no federation support whatsoever. What he did for figure skating in Spain will go down in history. Also, his quad salchow, when landed, is simply magnificent.

Ladies;

Katarina Witt; I mean, what can be said about her? She is the Katarina Witt best female skater in history. Her jumps, her spins, her skating skills, just beautiful on the ice.

Irina Slutskaya; What a joy to watch, her technique was better than a lot of the men's today is.

Michelle Kwan; Five time world champion. Enough said.

Mao Asada; Her step sequences were what figure skating is supposed to be, her triple axel was amazing when landed. And the way she connected and actually felt the music is something so scarce today.

Yuna Kim; Like with Yuzuru Hanyu and Katarina Witt, when you ask who the best skaters ever are these three are the first to come to mind.

If one really has to be objective, it should go down to medal counts. it would be pointless to compare marks as 6.0 is incomparable to CoP, whilst artistry and what elements are preferred is subjective. How many difficult jumps completed is pointless too, as different era have different focus, and skating boots technology have changed - I think they used to be 1kg more heavier in the past.

There are youtube rankings for skaters since CoP was introduced based purely on medal counts for all men, women and pairs - wish there were versions extended longer to 1980s
Men: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AieNS2bdwfk
Women: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnzXXFzNXzs
Pairs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjx7AjgbK8E

Obviously, fans will disagree on the relative value of different medals, often skewing towards the version that fits their favourite. However, I would think at least in the skaters' eyes, Olympic medals >>> other medals, otherwise we wouldn't be having so much grieve and skaters staying for another quad just for that medal over the years.

Ladies (after the 1980s):

1. Michelle Kwan: Her breadth of work is simply unmatched. A master of almost everything she did, and an exceptional interpreter of music. Here are Romanza, Lyra Angelica, Tosca, and Aranjuez.
2. Midori Ito: She pushed the field repeatedly all the way back in the 80s and early 90s, and for a very long time. Her programs exuded a sense of joy. Here are Scheherezade, her 1989 Worlds LP, and her 1988 Olympics LP.
3. Lu Chen: Some of the best performances ever, and for me is perhaps the best ever interpreter of music in the ladies' field, or at least tied with Kwan. Her breadth of work is smaller, though, and she didn't have quite the mastery that Kwan did either. Her Butterfly Lovers is exquisite.
4. Yuna Kim: Her toe-jumps were beautiful, and she was very good at almost everything she did. A great performer and interpreter, capable of great depth, and has some of the best skating under the CoP. Should be a two-time OGM, too, IMO (but that weighs comparatively little for me). Her Les Mis and Lark Ascending are two of the best programs under the CoP.
5. Mao Asada: She worked very hard to gain a mastery over everything by the end of the career. She was unfortunately hampered, IMO, by getting programs that simply didn't suit her, and by repeatedly having to focus on tuning her jump technique. Nonetheless, she attempted some of the most difficult programs ever, and also has the best SP ever.

EDIT: Added my favourite skates for the remaining four skaters.

ankifeather said:

If one really has to be objective, it should go down to medal counts.

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Not when one repeatedly talks about judging bias within the sport. One can see what they're putting onto the ice, however.

Modern era?
"Real choreography"
Started in 1980????
:dev2:

Any list without Toller is no list at all. Points, meh. Means little. Innovation means everything:agree:

el henry said:

Modern era?
"Real choreography"
Started in 1980????
:dev2:

Any list without Toller is no list at all. Points, meh. Means little. Innovation means everything:agree:

Click to expand...

You're free to create 4 all-time lists.

Historians of skating can confirm, but I feel like I've read/watched a video that said that skating choreographers rose sometime in the 80s? I wouldn't necessarily look at the choreography present in Boitano's 1988 winning LP and say stuff like that was present in the early 70s or late 60s. All time lists could be fun, I still think 1980s gives a good delineation. Men and women were beginning to do more triples in their programs, at least.

chopinskate said:

You're free to create 4 all-time lists.

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I know, I'm teasing. (partly) These lists are impossible to please everyone

But I will stick up for my original skating :luv17: at all times.

A list that has nothing to do with points, judging or anything, just my very subjective (just mine) favourites. But I'll include some (also very subjective) reasoning with it. By the way, it's like with favourite episodes of my favourite tv-show: I could present slightly different lists tomorrow (I mean, I didn't include Lu Chen, Yuna Kim, Jeffrey Buttle, Brasseur and Eisler or Anessina/Peizerat today)! So nice, not to have to be consistent. I'll also be cheating by adding a sixth (and one 7th) to each discipline.

Ladies (somewhat in random order):
Michelle Kwan (that smile, her musicality, the elegance, and 5 world titles!)
Irina Slutskaya (triumph over adversity, that beautiful Wonderland Programme)
Denise Biellman (well, she did invent a spin)
Lucindah Ruh (couldn't jump but her spins were to die for)
Mao Asada (that triple axle combined with just great skating, especially in her later years).
My cheat add: Carolina Kostner

Men
Alexei Yagudin (Winter, just d**n good looking bloke)
Robin Cousins (musicality, joyfulness)
John Curry (Ballet on ice)
Yuzuru Hanyu (two OGs, no further comment)
Javier Fernandez (that FS in 2016, The man from La Mancha at the last olympics)
My cheat add: Rudy Galindo (I'll never forget his Swan Lake from 1996)

Pairs
Aljona Savchenko and Bruno Massot (wow factor, La Terre vue du Ciel, Lighthouse, great story)
Natalia Mishkutionok and Artur Dmitriev (1994 Olympics, powerful skaters)
Jeni Meno and Todd Sand (they might not have had the jumps, but boy were they beautiful to watch)
Ksenia Stolbova and Fedor Klimov (that FS in Sochi was really something)
Xue Chen and Zao Hongbo (lyrical programmes, their 2003 FS to Turandot)
My cheat adds: Meagan Duhamel and Eric Radford (hometown glory, quadruple salkow) and Vanessa James and Morgan Cipres (their lines, Vanessa's costumes)

Dance:
Jane Torville and Christopher Dean (well...just awesome)
Isobelle Delobel and Olivier Schoenvelder (Merlin mostly)
Meryl Davis and Charlie White (just love their skating, Bollywood)
Gabriella Papakis and Guillaume Cizeron (fluidity, edges, stories)
Marina Klimova and Sergei Ponomarenko (the drama, their obvious love for one another)
My cheat add: Shae Lynn Bourne and Victor Kraatz (inventiveness, River Dance)

ankifeather said:

If one really has to be objective, it should go down to medal counts. it would be pointless to compare marks as 6.0 is incomparable to CoP, whilst artistry and what elements are preferred is subjective. How many difficult jumps completed is pointless too, as different era have different focus, and skating boots technology have changed - I think they used to be 1kg more heavier in the past.

There are youtube rankings for skaters since CoP was introduced based purely on medal counts for all men, women and pairs - wish there were versions extended longer to 1980s
Men: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AieNS2bdwfk
Women: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnzXXFzNXzs
Pairs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjx7AjgbK8E

Click to expand...

I thought of that at once, plus for the men at least the poster did a list (linked, there, and also uploaded at:
https://twitter.com/heeCHIKHA/status/1018264607574642689

which added in 4cc/Europeans and GPFs (correctly IMO). I mean I'm unblushingly bad at objective, and am also skewed to what I can watch online with videos that aren't fuzzy enough to make the head hurt, but doing my best with the skaters I've watched a fair bit of (and they had to be artistic/choreographically good to keep me doing that given my lack of technical savvy)

1. Yuzuru Hanyu, by any standard (and before anyone cries "your favourite!" I know, I know, I'm still startled that my tall poppy instinct didn't kick in from the start). Scores, medals, mesmeric performances, iconic programs, the closest thing to all round perfection on skates pretty much ever...

2. a tie between Evgeni Plushenko and Alexei Yagudin, which would probably aggravate the pair of them

3. Toller Cranston (yes, before 1980, and yes, the fuzzy videos and 70s fashions make the head hurt. So far, he's proved to be the one I'll most readily put UP with it, that's got to count)

4. Javier Fernandez, I agree with Ulrica, I look at the record, and I also do think the brilliance of his career was overshadowed by the fannish spotlight on Yuzu, Patrick and then Nathan Chen, but hey, he took Worlds from Yuzu and Patrick twice....

chopinskate said:

Or since the "modern" era of skating began, with real choreography. Let's say since 1980. Who are they and why do you think so?

Try to be objective. There can be several criteria to evaluate such a thing, and it would be interesting to see what each individual weights the most.


(Runs and hides)

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Objective? When we're discussing favourites, that's going to be impossible for me. Sorry. I did compose of a list (see above) but there's nothing objective about it. My apologies, I just can't.

Let's start with the Men. My personal ranking.

#1 Is Plushy. World and Olympic Champion who has opened an Academy and continues to give back to this sport every day.

#2 is Brian Boitano. Winner of the famous Battle Of The Brian's he is perhaps the most Famous US Man since Scott Hamilton.

#3 is Alexei Yagudin. His lack of a National Title drops him below Plushy and Brian.

#4 is Patrick Chan. Multiple National and World Titles and a Team Gold Medal rounded out his career quite nicely. One of my VERY favorite skaters.

#5 is Todd Eldredge. One of the first skaters I saw live back in 1991. He was just a dream to see in person. Big jumps and THE best legs ever!!!

MY faves... only 1 per category..

MEN : PATRICK CHAN so much ahead of any other male skater

Dance : VM

Ladies : Midori Ito.

Pairs : Gordeeva Grnkov

Men: R. Cousins, Chan, Browning, Wylie, Abbott

Ladies: Sato, Yamaguchi, Lu Chen, Kwan, Arakawa

Dance: T/D, V/M, D/W, K/O, D/V

Pairs: B/P, G/G, D/R, S/M, Shen/Zhao

Why since the 1980s?

Ladies: Yuna Kim, Lu Chen, Kristi Yamaguchi, Sasha Cohen, Midori Ito

Men: Alexei Yagudin, John Curry (not since 1980 but still worthy to mention), Daisuke Takahashi, Evegeni Plushenko, Patrick Chan

Pairs: Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze, Mishkutenok/Dmitriev, Shen/Zhao, Pang/Tong, Savchenko/Szolkowy

Dance: Torvill/Dean, K/P, G/P, A/P, Delobel/Schoenfelder

Some of the listed skaters are not my favorite such as Curry and Plushenko or some ice dancers but their legacies are undeniable and much greater than my personal taste. The skaters in bold texts are the one if I were asked to pick only one great skater/team of all time. I can't choose one team in pairs.

Women

This list is dependent on the impact their fine performances made on me (not judges scores).

Mao Asada - the most complete for me in terms of the impact of elegance and powerful emotional resonance with supreme skating skills shown by how deep into the corners she skated and how close to the boards her jumps were placed, the best and most dramatic spirals and step sequences I have seen, wonderful spins with my favorite sit spin, one handed Biellmann and I spin, technically challenging jumps (triple axel, triple flip and loop), and fabulous dancing skills; aesthetically pleasing jumps especially her erect posture, beautiful air position, symmetry in the air and the high quality of her expressive movements and transitions, and the fact that she didn't do extra stroking with her skates into her jumps.

Chen Lu- also a fabulous and passionate dancer on ice with outstanding skating skills, the most aesthetically pleasing delayed rotation, nice height and posture in her jumps, and great expressive power and emotional resonance

Midori Ito- the most impressive athletic jumps often done all the way to the boards like her triple loop / triple loop and triple axel with great speed, freedom, charisma and expression in her performance, and underrated spins which were very good especially for her time.

Denise Biellmann - her 1980 Olympic LP was one of the greatest leaps forward in the sport for me, excellent dancer, more difficult technical skills in her best performances including jumps and of course the Biellmann, and excellent at creating her own choreography

Kristi Yamaguchi- graceful and an excellent dancer with a triple lutz / triple toe and and being an inspiration for Chen Lu is a big plus.

Likely in the Future: Rika Kihira in terms of how much I like her best performances already and her technical excellence, expression and charisma.

Men:
Yuzuru hanyu
Yags
Stephen gogolev

Ladies:
Yuna kim
Michelle kwan
Sasha cohen

Pairs:
Gordeeva/Grinkov
Sui/Han

Ice dance:
V/M (in first by a large margin)
B/K
shibs
K/P

So, i counted medals for Worlds and Olympics back to 1936 (before that, too much weird stuff was happening) for all 4 disciplines.

First observation - skaters never ever had long careers. Most olympic medalists skated on top level for an olympic cycle or less. Also, retiring after winning oly's was very common.
So all you people who keep complaining about skaters having short careers, sorry to disapoint, it never was a thing, even back when skaters had like 3-4 competitions a year max.

To rank the folks, I used the following weights:
World bronze: 1 pt
World silver: 2 pt
World gold: 3 pt
Olympic bronze: 2 pt
Olympic silver: 4 pt
Olympic gold: 6pt
I didnt put more weight at the olympics, since the competition at both worlds and olys is nearly same, so there is no reason to value the olympic medals as a supreme thing.

Codes:
G - gold
S - silver
B - bronze
O - Olympics
W - Worlds

MEN
1. Karl Schäfer (2xOG, 7xWG, 2xWS, 1xWB)
2. Dick Button (2xOG, 5xWG, 1xWS)
3. Evgeni Plushenko (1xOG, 2xOS, 3xWG, 1xWS, 1xWB)
4. Yuzuru Hanyu (2xOG, 2xWG, 2xWS, 1xWB)
5. Elvis Stojko (2xOS, 3xWG, 2xWS, 1xWB)
---
Honorary mentions: Alexei Yagudin, Brian Orser, Patrick Chan, David Jenkins, Jan Hoffmann

LADIES
1. Sonja Henie (3xOG, 10xWG, 1xWS, duh beat that)
2. Katarina Witt (2xOG, 4xWG, 2xWS)
2. Michelle Kwan (1xOS, 1xOB, 5xWG, 3xWS, 1xWB)
3. Carol Heiss (1xOG, 1xOS, 5xWG, 1xWS)
4. Sjoukje Dijkstra (1xOG, 1xOS, 3xWG, 1xWS, 1xWB)
4. Yuna Kim (1xOG, 1xOS, 2xWG, 2xWS, 2xWB)
5. Tenley_Albright (1xOG, 1xOS, 2xWG, 2xWS)
---
Honorary mentions: Irina Slutskaya, Mao Asada, Jeannette Altwegg, Carolina Kostner, Chen Lu

PAIRS
(ok, here the first 2 spots are awarded to ladies mostly)
1. Rodnina / Ulanov and Rodnina / Zaitsev (3xOG, 10xWG across two partnerships)
2. Savchenko / Szolkowy and Savchenko / Massot (1xOG, 2xOB, 6xWG, 3xWS, 2xWB across two partnerships)
3. Gordeeva / Grinkov (2xOG 4xWG, 1xWS)
3. Shen / Zhao (1xOG, 2xOB, 3xWG, 3xWS, 1xWB)
4. Valova / Vasiliev (1xOG, 1xOS, 3xWG, 3xWS)
5. Rotter / Szollas (2xOB, 4xWG, 1xWS)
5. Berezhnaya / Sikharulidze (1xOG, 1xOS, 2xWG, 1xWS)
---
Honorary mentions: Kilius / Bäumler, Mishkutionok / Dmitriev, Totmianina / Marinin, Pang / Tong, Brasseur / Eisler

DANCE
1. Klimova / Ponomarenko (1xOG, 1xOS, 1xOB, 3xWG, 5xWS)
2. Virtue / Moir (2xOG, 1xOB, 3xWG, 3xWS, 3xWB)
3. Bestemianova / Bukin (1xOG, 1xOS, 4xWG, 3xWS, 1xWB)
4. Grishuk / Platov (2xOG, 4xWG, 1xWS, 1xWB)
5. Pakhomova / Gorshkov (1xOG, 6xWG, 1xWS)
---
Honorary mentions: Moiseeva / Minenkov, Torvill / Dean, Davis / White, Anissina / Peizerat, Usova / Zhulin, Papadakis / Cizeron

ladyjane said:

Objective? When we're discussing favourites, that's going to be impossible for me. Sorry. I did compose of a list (see above) but there's nothing objective about it. My apologies, I just can't.

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Well, I tried to be. Michelle Kwan isn't my favourite female skater, but she's certainly the best.

moriel said:

list

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Thanks! I definitely don't agree with just looking at the medals, but I did say it would be interesting to see how everyone weighs everything, and this did take effort. However, I don't think Virtue/Moir have an OBM? And why are you not counting the Olympic Team medals?