Top five skaters/pairs of each discipline ever?

Some principles:
- I prefer recent skaters over older legends due to their advanced athletic capabilities as the sport evolves
- I prefer to go with number of major titles, longevity and general impact/legacy
- I prefer not to include any pre-WW2 legends because while impressive skaters, eligibility and field depth was very different back then
- no one-hit-wonders
- I consider GPFs as credentials but did not include them as reasoning here as the series was introduced relatively late BUT I'm including 4CCs as credentials as they are the equivalent of Europeans
- I started watching figure skating a little bit more than a decade ago only so my knowledge has white spots
- five candidates are in no particular order

MEN
Hanyu - 2 OGs, 2 WGs, the total package, the best figure skating can currently get, constantly breaking new grounds, 'nuff said
Button - 2 OGs, 5 WGs, the revolutionary double Axel, European champ (!)
Yagudin - he was a prime figure skater in his time with excellent footwork while constantly beating his main rivals (1 OG, 4 WGs, 3 EGs)
Plushenko - his longevity and breaking-the-mould attitude really helped advancing the sport (1 OG, 7 EGs, 3 WGs)
??? (I'm looking at Hamilton's impressive credentials but I just can't with his bucketload of double Axels)

LADIES
Kim - the total package, never finished off the podium, 2 WGs and, in my eyes, 2 OGs really
Witt - I don't like the fact she was technically very subpar but 2 OGs, 6 EGs, 4 WGs - you can't not include her
Kwan - the most world titles in this discipline after WW2 with 5 (tied with Heiss), very consistent and high-level skating thorough a decade
Heiss - 1 OG, 5 WGs and very influential
Fleming - 1 OG, 3 WGs and hugely influential
honorary mention: Slutskaya - 7 EGs, 2 WGs, 2 Olympic medals (and I'm biased)

PAIRS
Savchenko and her boys - her sheer endurance and grit speak for themselves, oh and she holds 6 WGs, 4 EGs and 1 OG
Rodnina and her boys - 3 OGs, 10 consecutive WGs, 11 EGs
Gordeeva/Grinkov - 'nuff said (2 OGs, 4 WGs, 2 EGs)
Belousova/Protopopov - mostly the same credentials as above (2 OGs, 4 WGs, 4EGs), their sheer love for this sport thorough decades
Shen/Zhao - 'nuff said (1 OG, 3 WGs, 3 4CGs)
honorary mention: Valova/Vasiliev - 1 OG, 3 WGs, 3 EGs

DANCE
Virtue/Moir - 'nuff said, bias (2 OGS, 3 WGs, 3 4CGs)
Torvill/Dean - some mediocre unpolished dancers without any real legacy, you don't hear their names anywhere... (oh wait 1 OG, 4 WGs, 4 EGs)
Grishuk/Platov - 2 OGs, 4 WGs, 3 EGs
Pakhomova/Gorshkov - they would have at least 2 OGs had dance been intrduced earlier to Olympics, 6 WGs, 6 EGs
Papadakis/Cizeron - their path is soaring with new heights in dance and 3 WGs already in the pocket

moriel said:

I think it is not fair to consider golds only.

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In fact, in my case I considered medals of other colors as well but it would have been tool tedious to list all of them. (Many of the listed skaters in my post have tons of silvers and bronzes as well.) On the other hand, being able to squeeze out the gold instead of claiming silver or bronze is also a factor in greatness imo.

dunnoww said:

MEN
Hanyu - 2 OGs, 2 WGs, the total package, the best figure skating can currently get, constantly breaking new grounds, 'nuff said
Button - 2 OGs, 5 WGs, the revolutionary double Axel, European champ (!)
Yagudin - he was a prime figure skater in his time with excellent footworks while constantly beating his main rivals (1 OG, 4 WGs, 3 EGs)
lushenko - his longevity and breaking-the-mould attitude really helped advancing the sport (1 OG, 7 EGs, 3 WGs)
??? (I'm looking at Hamilton's impressive credentials but I just can't with his bucketload of double Axels)

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sigh..I just want to correct a poster again in this matter . This is my sensitive point because many posters don't know the exact results.. Maybe it was thought in N-A forums? Yagudin didn't beat constantly his main rival, Plushenko. Plushenko was almost 3 years younger he was only 19! when Yagudin retired, Yags had two seasons advantage in seniors despite Plushenko started to comete in seniors at 15! In that period( 4years) Plush beat Yags on every Rus Nat, two times at ECH , and one time at WCH, and two times at GPF.

And you forgot about Plushenko's two OG silvers..

I think it is not fair to consider golds only.

plushyfan said:

sigh..I just want to correct a poster again in this matter .This is my sensitive point because many posters don't know the exact results.. Maybe it was thought in N-A forums? Yagudin didn't beat constantly his main rival, Plushenko. Plushenko was almost 3 years younger he was only 19! when Yagudin retired, Yags had two seasons advantage in seniors despite Plushenko started to comete in seniors at 15! In that period( 4years) Plush beat Yags on every Rus Nat, two times at ECH , and one time at WCH, and two times at GPF.

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No need for correction and I was afraid you were going to jump onto that. I know my numbers just fine and I phrased it as 'main rivals' (=not Plushenko per se). Russian Nationals are a home competition and it was clear RusFed preferred Plushenko over Yagudin. Yagudin beat Plushenko at the 2002 Olympics and at Worlds 1998-2000 whereas Plushenko only beat Yagudin at Worlds in 2001. (At Europeans, they are tied with 2-2 and I didn't list GPFs.) 'Consistently' instead of 'constantly' would have proably been a better phrasing but all in all, Plushenko became Plushenko after Yagudin had retired.

plushyfan said:

And you forgot about Plushenko's two OG silvers..

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I didn't list any Olympic medals besides gold (in the case of Slutskaya, it is a bias as I stated)... so no, I didn't?

Yagudin, hanyu and dick button have overall accomplished more then pushenko so it makes perfect sense to have those three above him.

StephenGfan said:

Yagudin, hanyu and dick button have overall accomplished more then pushenko so it makes perfect sense to have those three above him.

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I strongly disagree about Yagudin.
Yagudin - 1 olympic gold
Plushenko - 1 olympic gold and 2 silvers

Overall, Plushy stayed competitive for 3 olympic cycles, unlike Yagudin, who basically skated on top level for 5 years.

Just a thought. I think this thread is a place where we should lay some of our subjectivity aside. After all, we are not talking about "what are your 5 favorite skaters ever". Just because we love a skater, it does not mean that this skater is the best ever in the discipline. For example, i love V/T to death, and if I had to pick my 5 fav pair teams, Aljona would not be on that list. Still, we simply must to aknowledge that Aljona skated through 3 olympics with 2 different partners, and won an insane amount of medals, only comparable to Rodnina. There is no rational criteria where I can say V/T are greater than S/S and S/M. Yes, there is room to debate - for example, it is a matter of taste to rank Hanyu above Plushy or Plushy above Hanyu, both choices can be explained. Or one could list Ted Barton, for example, for what he is doing for the juniors right now, there is still some rationale behind that. One could list Trusova for being the first lady to land two quads. There is a lot of explainable stuff.
But overall it looks like many folks just chose to list their favs instead.

moriel said:

I strongly disagree about Yagudin.
Yagudin - 1 olympic gold
Plushenko - 1 olympic gold and 2 silvers

Overall, Plushy stayed competitive for 3 olympic cycles, unlike Yagudin, who basically skated on top level for 5 years.

Just a thought. I think this thread is a place where we should lay some of our subjectivity aside. After all, we are not talking about "what are your 5 favorite skaters ever". Just because we love a skater, it does not mean that this skater is the best ever in the discipline. For example, i love V/T to death, and if I had to pick my 5 fav pair teams, Aljona would not be on that list. Still, we simply must to aknowledge that Aljona skated through 3 olympics with 2 different partners, and won an insane amount of medals, only comparable to Rodnina. There is no rational criteria where I can say V/T are greater than S/S and S/M. Yes, there is room to debate - for example, it is a matter of taste to rank Hanyu above Plushy or Plushy above Hanyu, both choices can be explained. Or one could list Ted Barton, for example, for what he is doing for the juniors right now, there is still some rationale behind that. One could list Trusova for being the first lady to land two quads. There is a lot of explainable stuff.
But overall it looks like many folks just chose to list their favs instead.

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Thank you. I find funny how many posters don't know the facts ignore the datas. Despite the facts they could say their favorite is XY...

So maybe I am getting technical but the wording says we are looking at top 5 - not who we like or most popular or most innovative so here are my top 5 with bad spelling


Pairs

1. Gordeeva and Grinkov - many medals at all levels, wonderful artistry and ease of technical elements and a rare magical relationship that can't be ta
ught.
2. Artur Dimitriev (Sr) and his partners - What an icon; what a tour de force with bth ladies they hd fire, passion and flexibility also no death spiral from Oksana but wow.
3. Irina Rodina and her partners - Ditto Artur's comments and what a legacy
4. Shen and Zhou - put China on the map. onderful lyrical quality andsmoothness of skating
5. Elena B and Anton S - they had wonderful skating skills and magic on ice


Men
1.Evgeni Plushenko - This was tough but his Two Olympic Silvers and Olympic Gold, his determination, push, and quad revolution puts him first.
2. Yuzuru Hanyu - I have to put him ahead of Patrick Chan only because he has won two olympic golds He is an really good jumper and artist but neither is he is the best but overall there is no denying a great skater.
3. Patrick Chan - no individual Olympic gold but really pushed the quad and artistry and his skating skills are incomparable to anyone. REally no other skater who you could just watch him glide all day - very magical - no gimmicks pure excellent skating
4. Alexei yagudin - A wonderful package of artistry and technique
5. Brian Boitano/Brian Orser/Kurt Browning - each are memorable. The Canadians probably had longevity and amazing technical and artistic abilities. Boitano for getting it together when it counted.

Dance

1. Virtue and Moir - two olympic golds, diverse, able to be not very good but excellent and many styles and great command of the ice.
2. Torvill and Dean - they revolutionized skating. I found overrated but nevertheless deserve their spot on the list.
3. Klimova and Ponomarenko - Such delicate skating along with fire, passion, drama and they had to "wait" their turn before walking on to the top of the podium
4. Gritschuk and Platov - Two olympic gold medals - hard to argue though not my faves
5. Bestmianova and Bukin and Davis and White - both won oly gold and silver. Both memoable in their own way. D and W were good skating at its best. Bestmianova and Bukin ws raw passion and fire that can't be manufactured.


Ladies

1. Michelle Kwan forget Oly gold her skating was technical solidity , efficiency and consistency along with musicality and beauty.
2. Katarina Witt - well was she the best skater no. As she a very good skater no. But she had something no one else had - herself and 2 OGM
3. Yuna Kim - OSM and OGM and well balanced skating like Kwan.
4. Oksana baiul she skated with her heart and soul - Ididn't even care ab bout the jumps - though she could jump!
5. Irina Slutskaya - great technical skill and power.

moriel said:

I think it is not fair to consider golds only.

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I don't think the poster in question did, just gave it more weight. And numbers can matter... in the video of the top IJS men mentioned above, Shoma made it into the 10 despite having no major gold medals, but a bucketload of silver.

And to be fair, there are other factors you can't quantify as easily in ranking greatness... Michelle Kwan as I understand it did a huge amount to increase skating's popularity, as have Mao and Yuzuru in Asia. Then there is the sheer physical power needed these days as technique reaches ever higher levels - I saw Kurt Browning joking about how he won gold at Worlds with one quad, now they need umpteen to even reach the final flight (and then everyone wonders why we have splatfests, whereas no one blinks twice when with other sports, athletes pushing the physical boundaries fail a lot even at Olys and World events).

And - it being figure skating - how do you quantify artistry and that indefinable magic of personal magnetism? No matter how you count points and records and medals, this being figure skating it HAS to count, it's what makes a performance remembered and rewatched for years to come (well, that and youtube, which does give the IJS lot an unfair advantage in the memorable stakes )

Ladies:
1. Mao Asada. I don't care that she's not an OGM. One competition doesn't define the career and the greatness of a skater. She's the best for me. Her technique was not perfect, her coaching history was not enough stable to totally correct that, but she tried and delivered some of the most technically ambitious tech contents of history. She was not an extroverted skater and suffered from extremely bad choreos, but her artistic skills were top notch. She's the most decorated lady of her country despite not being clearly a judge favorite the most part of her career.
Midori Ito: Simply, she was doing 30 years back what most of girls do nowadays. And even better. She really pushed the sport in another world. The greatest technician for me.
Michelle Kwan: Legendary performances and record great consistency on world podium.
Yuna Kim: Consistency in being on podiums. She won all major titles.
Irina Slutskaya: The most successful Russian. I think she's an inspiration dor many wonder kids who win almost everything.

Men
Yuzuru Hanyu: Well, he's the best. That's all.
Plushenko: Longevity + an endless list of titles.
Yagudin: The best before his retirement.
Chan: He dominated almost a full quad.
Takahashi: The most artistic skater in my book.

yume said:

Ladies:
1. Mao Asada. I don't care that she's not an OGM. One competition doesn't define the career and the greatness of a skater. She's the best for me. Her technique was not perfect, her coaching history was not enough stable to totally correct that, but she tried and delivered some of the most technically ambitious tech contents of history. She was not an extroverted skater and suffered from extremely bad choreos, but her artistic skills were top notch. She's the most decorated lady of her country despite not being clearly a judge favorite the most part of her career.

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I know you're a fan, so it's odd correcting you. But her jump technique wasn't perfect. Her spins, spirals, and steps were pretty spot on.

Your top 5 comes closest to mine, although I'd definitely place Lu Chen (far) above Slutskaya.

chopinskate said:

I know you're a fan, so it's odd correcting you. But her jump technique wasn't perfect. Her spins, spirals, and steps were pretty spot on.

You're top 5 comes closest to mine, although I'd definitely place Lu Chen (far) above Slutskaya.

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Yes. I've should have say jump technique. Her spirals deserved more, and the steps were the highlight of the program most of the time. Her non-jumps elements were top notch.

Well, skating-wise Lu Chen was really good but Slutskaya's career put her ahead IMO.

yume said:

Yes. I've should have say jump technique. Her spirals deserved more, and the steps were the highlight of the program most of the time. Her non-jumps elements were top notch.

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Yeah, I got what you said. Just that there are skating skills, spins, spirals, what have you, but people usually only talk about jumps in terms of technique. *insert CoP rant here*

Not a fan nor was i even born when Scott hamilton was competing but why is he barely mentioned when people talk about legendary skaters?

For the Ladies:

1. Best competitive grit: Katarina Witt - This lady just kept on winning one competition after another and was able to rise to the occasion at almost every major event (hence the most decorated woman since the modern era) I even heard someone purporting on a documentary (I think it was Fire on Ice) that she had her own way of psyching her competitors out in practices. Whether this claim is veritable I cannot vouch for.

2. Best artistry/presentation: Michelle Kwan - The breadth of music she interpreted with flying colors is just incredible. Always had that intuition to execute every move and position in aesthetically pleasing forms and right to the point of the musical notes. All her programs (save for Bolero, or her 2000 SP I think) were like pieces of art scrupulously constructed in a balanced and fluid manner.

3. Best pure skating: Janet Lynn - She is just mesmerizing to watch even without triple jumps, convoluted spins and foot works.

4. Best athlete: Midori Ito - I know some are apt to deprecate her as a mere jumping machine, but her spins and flow/speed of skating were far ahead of her time as well. The variation, originality, positions, speed, and centering of her spins were all first grade (See her 1988 LP at Calgary); ample transitions between jumps like spread eagle into 3Lo, Ina Bauer into 3T-3T, split jump into 2A, etc. And I don't need to dilate on the prodigious jumps and speed/flow across the ice which still remain unmatched even to this day. Such a trailblazer.

5. Best overall: Yuna Kim - She is not necessarily the best in each of the four criteria above, but IMO the most well-rounded.

EyesOfLove said:

For the Ladies:

1. Best competitive grit: Katarina Witt - This lady just kept on winning one competition after another and was able to rise to the occasion at almost every major event (hence the most decorated woman since the modern era) I even heard someone purporting on a documentary (I think it was Fire on Ice) that she had her own way of psyching her competitors out in practices. Whether this claim is veritable I cannot vouch for.

2. Best artistry/presentation: Michelle Kwan - The breadth of music she interpreted with flying colors is just incredible. Always had that intuition to execute every move and position in aesthetically pleasing forms and right to the point of the musical notes. All her programs (save for Bolero, or her 2000 SP I think) were like pieces of art scrupulously constructed in a balanced and fluid manner.

3. Best pure skating: Janet Lynn - She is just mesmerizing to watch even without triple jumps, convoluted spins and foot works.

4. Best athlete: Midori Ito - I know some are apt to deprecate her as a mere jumping machine, but her spins and flow/speed of skating were far ahead of her time as well. The variation, originality, positions, speed, and centering of her spins were all first grade (See her 1988 LP at Calgary); ample transitions between jumps like spread eagle into 3Lo, Ina Bauer into 3T-3T, split jump into 2A, etc. And I don't need to dilate on the prodigious jumps and speed/flow across the ice which still remain unmatched even to this day. Such a trailblazer.

5. Best overall: Yuna Kim - She is not necessarily the best in each of the four criteria above, but IMO the most well-rounded.

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I really like this setup for a top 5. At some point, some get into the group for medals and some get into the group for other measures of excellence, but all were capable of getting an OGM on their best day. I'd only sub out Janet Lynn for Mao Asada but the reasons would stay the same. There's so much more to Mao than her triples. I enjoyed Yuna when she skated, but I get more and more surprised at how much I miss her skating now. Being properly well-rounded is actually pretty difficult in this sport. The only thing I downright didn't like from her was her spirals.

The men's list is a different task since a lot of the best of the sport has been more recent compared to ladies. It would be difficult for me to accept a list that Patrick Chan isn't on.

moriel said:

So, i counted medals for Worlds and Olympics back to 1936 (before that, too much weird stuff was happening) for all 4 disciplines.

To rank the folks, I used the following weights:
World bronze: 1 pt
World silver: 2 pt
World gold: 3 pt
Olympic bronze: 2 pt
Olympic silver: 4 pt
Olympic gold: 6pt
I didnt put more weight at the olympics, since the competition at both worlds and olys is nearly same, so there is no reason to value the olympic medals as a supreme thing.

Codes:
G - gold
S - silver
B - bronze
O - Olympics
W - Worlds


_____________
DANCE
1. Klimova / Ponomarenko (1xOG, 1xOS, 1xOB, 3xWG, 5xWS)
2. Virtue / Moir (2xOG, 1xOB, 3xWG, 3xWS, 3xWB)
3. Bestemianova / Bukin (1xOG, 1xOS, 4xWG, 3xWS, 1xWB)
4. Grishuk / Platov (2xOG, 4xWG, 1xWS, 1xWB)
5. Pakhomova / Gorshkov (1xOG, 6xWG, 1xWS)

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This is a great idea! Just wanted to second what chopinskate noted, though: Virtue/Moir's medal count is incorrectly listed here. They have 3 olympic golds (including a team medal), 2 olympic silvers (including team), and they never had an olympic bronze. All of these extra points would bring them into the #1 spot for Ice Dance, which makes sense given that they are currently the most decorated figure skaters of all time. I loooooove Klimova / Ponomarenko, though, and didn't realize they were next in line for most decorated ice dancers! Well-deserved!!

As objectively as I can, ONLY with skaters who competed post-1980....

Ladies
1. Michelle Kwan
2. Katarina Witt
3. Yuna Kim
4. Irina Slutskaya
5. Mao Asada

Men
1. Yuzuru Hanyu (still competing, but his legacy has cemented itself)
2. Evgeni Plushenko
3. Kurt Browning
4. Scott Hamilton (to prove I am objective - I dislike him, but he still belongs on this list)
5. tie between Brian Orser and Brian Boitano (and Alexei Yagudin)

Pairs
1. Gordeeva/Grinkov (not my favorite, but undeniably GOAT)
2. Savchenko/Massot and Savechenko/Szolkowy
3. Shen/Zhao
4. Mishkutenok/Dmitriev
5. Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze (the greatest team to never meet their full potential)

Dance
1. Virtue/Moir
2. Torvill/Dean
3. Grushuk/Platov
4. Klimova/Ponomarenko
5. Davis/White and Bestemianova/Bukin

theharleyquinn said:

I really like this setup for a top 5. At some point, some get into the group for medals and some get into the group for other measures of excellence, but all were capable of getting an OGM on their best day. I'd only sub out Janet Lynn for Mao Asada but the reasons would stay the same. There's so much more to Mao than her triples. I enjoyed Yuna when she skated, but I get more and more surprised at how much I miss her skating now. Being properly well-rounded is actually pretty difficult in this sport. The only thing I downright didn't like from her was her spirals.

The men's list is a different task since a lot of the best of the sport has been more recent compared to ladies. It would be difficult for me to accept a list that Patrick Chan isn't on.

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(Or Hanyu, for that matter.)

EyesOfLove said:

4. Best athlete: Midori Ito - I know some are apt to deprecate her as a mere jumping machine, but her spins and flow/speed of skating were far ahead of her time as well. The variation, originality, positions, speed, and centering of her spins were all first grade (See her 1988 LP at Calgary); ample transitions between jumps like spread eagle into 3Lo, Ina Bauer into 3T-3T, split jump into 2A, etc. And I don't need to dilate on the prodigious jumps and speed/flow across the ice which still remain unmatched even to this day. Such a trailblazer.

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In CoP era, that performance would have put her on podium.