Which discipline is the most popular? And why?

While it's not MY favorite, I do think Ladies is the most popular with the general public because it sort of embodies what figure skating is perceived as. For the most part, beautiful ladies, beautiful costumes, generally beautiful music, etc. If you're a figure skating uber and into the quadfest and the athleticism than the mens. I find dance boring, usually, but got excited with Davis & White and now Cizeron and Papadakis. When I really disliked dance it was some years ago when the ladies wore the long dresses as if they were truly in the ballroom. You couldn't see their legs and it defiitely distracted from the cohesiveness of the dance. Pairs is my favorite - truth be told - and I think because the lifts are amazing and the necessary trust between partners is so evident. But what it comes down to for me personally, is any discipline "live".......

TontoK said:

You have put your finger on the primary cause of my dissatisfaction and waning interest this season. I love this sport, but I'm getting bored. Most of the programs, not just in dance, are looking so similar. I'm fine with a flowy lyrical program, but dang, did everyone need to go in that direction all at once? And if they didn't do that, they basically chose music in the same vibe as they've skated before.

For me, the only three programs with any originality or freshness to them are Disco Brits, Korean Romeo, and Australian Disaster Grease. Nathan's Caravan is a bit of an outlier, but not by much. Just about everything else merges together into a mushy recollection rather than something memorable.

Frankly, this is what led to my disinterest in pairs for so many years. The pairs could have swapped music and basically skated the same elements to the same choreography they already knew for their own programs, and it wouldn't have made any difference.

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I think Alexa and Chris have somewhat of a "different" program.

RobinA said:

Pairs used to be my favorite discipline. Then it became a boring splatfest that was more about ticking off elements than putting together a coherent program that was interesting to watch. Plus ugly, scary lifts that, again, were difficult for difficult's sake rather than serving an artistic purpose. I pretty much prefer Ice Dance at this point, not because there is any less ticking of elements, but there does seem to be a bit more creativity. Although I have even been avoiding the technical (or whatever they call it this year) program recently because of the constant stream of Latin dances in recent years. I am just sick, sick, sick of them and not everybody can pull that kind of dance off. Of all the patterns in the world, WHY the constant Latin ones for the technical? I'm even sick of the costumes.

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I'm tired of the "ticking of the boxes" skating in ANY discipline.

Manitou said:

I am speaking for myself and my opinion has nothing in common with opinions of others.

For me it has to do with beauty of skaters. In pairs the teams are very unbalanced - a big muscular guy and a seriously underdeveloped woman/girl. Plus, the women are not feminine enough and are usually unattractive. The costumes are unappealing too. Again - it's my own very subjective perception. There is a stress on athleticism and execution of elements rather than on visual beauty.

The dances are exactly opposite - the women are gorgeous, feminine and ethereal, while the men are masculine and supportive. The woman and the man are matched with each other and they are visually very well balanced. There is a stress on visual beauty and pleasing artistic reception. The costumes underline those attributes too.

That's pretty much it.

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I could care less what the skaters look like in any discipline. Really? To each his or her own.

Manitou said:

For me it has to do with beauty of skaters. In pairs the teams are very unbalanced - a big muscular guy and a seriously underdeveloped woman/girl. Plus, the women are not feminine enough and are usually unattractive.

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Putting aside that this POV is......concerning, have you SEEN pair ladies? Vanessa James? Sui Wenjing? Ksenia Stolbova (and her apparent replacement, Natalia Zabiiako)? Alexa Scimeca? Evgenia Tarasova? At this point I’m just naming all of them. Pair ladies are some of the most stunning in the sport, especially when they’re rocking the short hair but I guess that’s “not feminine enough” :sarcasm:

I get more emotionally invested in singles skaters, but pairs is my favorite discipline overall. I love the tricks, I love the synchronization, I love the chemistry/trust. The programs do have a tendency to blend together more so than in other disciplines, but I also find that many of my absolute favorite programs from recent years have come from the pairs: S/H's Blues for Klook, S/K's Man and Shadow, Kavaguti/Smirnov's Manfred Symphony, S/M's La terre vue du ciel, and now J/C's Wicked Game. It can be a lot of "meh", especially in a season like this one, but the diamonds in the rough shine brighter than other disciplines imho. S/M's Olympic performance was my favorite figure skating moment last season.

I wonder if the lack of controversy has something to do with it. You get so much drama in all the other disciplines, but pairs, largely due to the weaker field, isn't subject to as much suspicious judging or polarizing results, and thus produces less intense discussion and debate. Which is ironic considering it was pairs which gave us IJS. There are also fewer nationally-motivated flame wars, since Japan, US, and now Canada do not have horses in the race, and Russia doesn't have the fierce domestic competition in pairs that it does in ladies.

I have already asked myself the same question. This is my favorite category.
I also find ice dance pretty boring.

P44 said:

I have already asked myself the same question. This is my favorite category.
I also find ice dance pretty boring.

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Really...My problem with pairs in the US is that I find it frightening to watch. They rarely go clean and that's the reason I prefer watching dance. Less risky but, easier to watch. For me at least.

TontoK said:

Once you venture outside the top 8-10 pairs in the world, I find that viewing the discipline can be terrifying.

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Me too. It's the only event where I basically hold my breath the entire time.

For me pairs are the most impressive discipline, and also the hardest to watch.
When the performance is on point it is just mesmerising but how rare is that and how many half-hearted botched SBS jumps, uninspired programs to slow angsty covers of overplayed songs and offensive costumes is one able to sit through per competition? The general sloppiness and facelessness of the majority of the current teams makes me skip pairs more often than not. I think just as it is with the top men right now, in pairs the tech content is so demanding that the actual programs and performances just fall apart.

Edit: somebody above mentioned the unbalancedness of pair teams, and you know Gordeeva and Grinkov were not the same size but they were captivating, they moved in sync with a purpose. When you have a case of lack of sync or sloppiness in a team with a big size difference, the lady starts looking like a tiny leaf blown in the wind and the guy like a heavy wardrobe that moves like a truck.

This thread has already touched on the question of whether pairs is indeed the least popular discipline worldwide. E.g., I highly doubt that pairs is the least popular among Chinese audiences.

Is the question intended to be Americentric?

And is the question about popularity with general audiences, with committed skating fans, or with participant skaters themselves?

moonvine said:

But pairs are the least popular across the board. I was watching a GP (can't remember which) with 6 pairs, and I was thinking jeez, all a team has to do to make the podium is finish in the top half. That's sad.

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The lower numbers of pair teams at Grand Prix events is not so much a reflection of popularity with audiences, but rather of the logistical and safety issues related to putting and keeping pair teams together and holding pair events.

See my post in the "Which discipline is the most popular" thread.

There are reasons why pair skating has the lowest number of participants of the major disciplines.

And there are also reasons why warmup groups for pairs never include more than 4 teams at a time, making it more cost effective to keep the total number of pairs invited to Grand Prix events -- where other disciplines are also limited to 2 warmup groups -- down to 8. Then when there are withdrawals, the total can be even lower.

When the Champions Series first started (before the name was changed to Grand Prix), only one warmup group's worth qualified for the final, which meant only the top 4 pairs in the series. At the 1997 series final, one of the teams withdrew after the SP. Which means that at that event, all a team needed to do to make the podium was to finish the event, period.

oatmella said:

I don’t know. I have never watched pairs

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If you missed this from the Grand Prix Final SP, you owe yourself a treat. :yes:

https://youtu.be/uZ4BRcPr2FE

Popularity in any discipline will always have to do with whether a country sends strong athletes, as well as the personalities and abilities of the top competitors in the field. It may be the case that the early warmup skaters in pairs have fewer fans than in singles or dance, simply because the differential in ability between those pairs and top-tier pairs are too glaring. But at the top echelon of talent, I wouldn't say that pairs is inherently less popular or enjoyable to watch. One of the most viewed figure skating videos ever is James/Cipres' 2017 Euros, and the comments reflect that people loved their chemistry as well as the complex technical maneuvers.

A country's strength in a discipline will always come in waves. You see Russian dominance in pairs, then there were plenty of Chinese competitors, and now you see other strong competitors emerging. I remember from IdF last year when James/Cipres got a standing ovation from the crowd despite not winning. The audience reaction there was even stronger than their applause for Papadakis/Cizeron—and P/C gave a sublime performance. At the very top of competition there are extremely enjoyable performances.

And yes, this question definitely is a little American-centric since there are no strong American pairs right now. Of course Japan and Russia probably feature the most television programming with figure skaters but take a look at some Chinese programming: To prepare for the closing exhibition at the end of Pyeongchang 2018, director Zhang Yimou rounded up some Chinese celebrities to train them for an ice show. You can see the full series here at this Youtube channel. The part where they bring in the pros to show them figure skating is at this video, where Shen/Zhao make an appearance to demonstrate. Later, the celebrities do a training session with Sui/Han and Yu/Zhang (this video has subs). Boyang is also a popular and successful skater, but the focus in China is on the pairs.

gkelly said:

This thread has already touched on the question of whether pairs is indeed the least popular discipline worldwide. E.g., I highly doubt that pairs is the least popular among Chinese audiences.

Is the question intended to be Americentric?

And is the question about popularity with general audiences, with committed skating fans, or with participant skaters themselves?



The lower numbers of pair teams at Grand Prix events is not so much a reflection of popularity with audiences, but rather of the logistical and safety issues related to putting and keeping pair teams together and holding pair events.

See my post in the "Which discipline is the most popular" thread.

There are reasons why pair skating has the lowest number of participants of the major disciplines.

And there are also reasons why warmup groups for pairs never include more than 4 teams at a time, making it more cost effective to keep the total number of pairs invited to Grand Prix events -- where other disciplines are also limited to 2 warmup groups -- down to 8. Then when there are withdrawals, the total can be even lower.

When the Champions Series first started (before the name was changed to Grand Prix), only one warmup group's worth qualified for the final, which meant only the top 4 pairs in the series. At the 1997 series final, one of the teams withdrew after the SP. Which means that at that event, all a team needed to do to make the podium was to finish the event, period.

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OK, why couldn't they have 3 warmup groups of 4 pairs? I do get that having that many people on the ice would be dangerous. But any event I look at the entries for has fewer pair entries than any other discipline. For instance, Golden Spin had 9 pairs entries, 12 ice dance entries, 26 male entries, and 37 ladies entries (original numbers, not counting any withdrawals.) I would argue that that mirrors worldwide popularity, with some pockets of increased popularity for different disciplines here and there because they have a star in one field but not others (example, I don't think pairs or ice dance or ladies are as popular in Spain as men's due to Javi. But I could be all wrong on that, it'd be difficult to determine the answer without conducting a poll.)

moonvine said:

But any event I look at the entries for has fewer pair entries than any other discipline. For instance, Golden Spin had 9 pairs entries, 12 ice dance entries, 26 male entries, and 37 ladies entries (original numbers, not counting any withdrawals.) I would argue that that mirrors worldwide popularity, ...

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I don't think that this correlates with popularity among viewers and fans, though. For the skaters, it is hard to form a pair and then to stick together long enough to become competitive.

Especially in the United States, there are always more girls taking skating lessons than boys. I imagine that it takes a lot of effort to search out a satisfactory partner. Plus, the type of specialized coaching that you need would be more challenging to arrange than for instruction in singles (so I would suppose).

I think it’s also the nature of the descipline - I find all the “tricks” that they are required to do to be restrict and limiting to choreography, creativity and musical expression. I find watching pairs often be reduced an experience of watching the big tricks but not much else. Of course there are a very small number of teams today that manage to make the programs interesting with their skating but pairs is largely the most boring descipline for me.

rachno2 said:

Putting aside that this POV is......concerning, have you SEEN pair ladies? Vanessa James? Sui Wenjing? Ksenia Stolbova (and her apparent replacement, Natalia Zabiiako)? Alexa Scimeca? Evgenia Tarasova? At this point I’m just naming all of them. Pair ladies are some of the most stunning in the sport, especially when they’re rocking the short hair but I guess that’s “not feminine enough” :sarcasm:

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Hey, if you don't like the answer don't ask the question...

moonvine said:

OK, why couldn't they have 3 warmup groups of 4 pairs?

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Skate Canada used to do that in the early 1990s (i.e., before there was an organized Grand Prix series). Maybe sometimes since, and maybe in other GP events at some point.

But then a number of years ago the GP commission decided to limit all disciplines to two warmup groups. I'm guessing it's primarily a financial/time decision. A third warmup group would require an extra resurface after the second group, so you're looking at adding more than an extra hour to the running time of the event.

But any event I look at the entries for has fewer pair entries than any other discipline. For instance, Golden Spin had 9 pairs entries, 12 ice dance entries, 26 male entries, and 37 ladies entries (original numbers, not counting any withdrawals.) I would argue that that mirrors worldwide popularity,

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As @Mathman notes, that's more a reflection of the number senior pairs that actually exist in the world, as opposed to the popularity with audiences.

If you look at the number of pairs who compete internationally as a percentage of all senior-eligible pairs in all ISU member federations, I'm sure the percentage is much much higher than the percentage of senior ladies or even senior men who ever get an opportunity to compete internationally.

Do we need to go into all the reasons why there aren't very many pair teams in the world?

Mathman said:

If you missed this from the Grand Prix Final SP, you owe yourself a treat. :yes:

https://youtu.be/uZ4BRcPr2FE

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Thanks for the link, Mathman. Now that's pairs skating! I used to love pairs (and simply tolerated the other disciplines). But pairs skating like this is a rarity today, IMO. I now prefer ice dance only. No worries about concussions yet there is athleticism involved (which isn't easy while maintaining speed + artistry + looking at each other, etc). Back in the day, I didn't worry while watching Sale/Pelletier, Mishkutienok/Dmitriev, Gordeeva/Grinkov, Babilonia/Gardner. I was hoping Stellato/Bartholomay might gel but it's a bit doubtful now (too bad they didn't start out together--there's just something about their pairs skating, their style & choice of music & strength that interests me).

I think pair skating is incredibly complex and difficult.When I watch them I am amazed at their ability to be doing such intense elements so close to another, while having to be focused on doing their own element ie a sbs jump, spin etc not just to successfully accomplish the element but also for the safety of their partner. And then in unison! Each pair skater at all levels should be highly respected. The popularity of pairs? It’s hard for the discipline to be respected enough when some commentary is so lacking in knowledge and respect. I watched CBC of GPF and they got it that Peng or Jin or both were injured and made a clearly intentional decision to do double salchow. While watching British eurosport they made out that the 3 salchow to a double was a huge mistake. It was not a mistake, it was clearly intentional . And the Besp guys spent the entire replays discussing how that was the defining factor etc and nothing pointing out what was good. How can a viewer appreciate the intricate mastery involved in pairs if no one points it out? . I was watching the replays of great elements while listening to all the reasons I should not have enjoyed the level of skating they just accomplished. Peng Jin handled the pressure of being in first, a placement very foreign to them let alone against the world’s top contenders. Did they mention that? No. Did they mention their placement last year and how this was a big accomplishment for them? No. A contributing factor to pairs not being fully appreciated often lies in the hands of commentary by those that do not do their research enough or are so ignorant in their knowledge that they do not point out what was so good about what a pair has done. I’m a diehard pair fan but even I struggle to love it if I listen to the commentary. When I watch it without commentary I feel such respect and awe for all the teams. And I love how each team has such a different approach, it’s cool, it’s dangerous, it’s exhilarating, it’s mind boggling what they all do. We need commentary that celebrates what’s awesome about pairs skating and why. Maybe then pairs can be given the respect and popularity it deserves.

Pairs has always been my favorite discipline. It's very athletic, complex, full of high-flying "big tricks", and feels more like a sport with a greater variety of skills than ice dance does. It's also easier to decipher who's better than who-- it's clear which pair teams have the biggest twists and the best throws, whereas ice dance is more subjective and about tiny details and key points that a lot of people don't fully understand. Pair skating seems less complicated-- I love to see the simple, matching lines of a pair team without all the cluttered (albeit beautiful) choreography that's in an ice dance program.

Some might not like to see big mistakes, but that's actually an exciting aspect of a sporting event. I can see greater differences in a pair team from one event to the next than I can see in ice dance, where the performances from week to week often look very similar, if not identical. I think some people love ice dance for the dance component of it more than the skating/sport component of it. If ballroom dancing were more popular worldwide and in the Olympics, perhaps some ice dance fans would gravitate towards that more so than figure skating.

I don't understand those who dislike pairs because you're seeing the same elements over and over. By that logic, singles skating should be the least popular because there's even less variety of elements-- all they do is jump and spin. The whole point of watching a sport is seeing the same skills being done over and over again and figuring out who's better than who. If that's boring to people, perhaps sports are not for them and they'd find variety shows like America's Got Talent (or whichever country you live) more appealing. I don't care for shows like that though, because all the talents are so different and it's like comparing apples to oranges. Ice dance, at times, feels like comparing apples to oranges.

Pairs has the biggest variety of elements out of all the disciplines and I find it fascinating. For example, the physical development necessary for jumps is quite different than the physical development needed for complicated overhead lifts. It makes the discipline supremely challenging and contributes to there being fewer pairs entrants worldwide than there are in other disciplines (which in turn makes the discipline less popular). I'm also intrigued by the relationship between the pair girl and the pair guy. The man is the "stem" and has to show off the "flower". He has to be able to throw her forcefully and powerfully, and also place her down gently and protect her as she does high-flying tricks. It's all fascinating to me, and in many ways I think it's the trickiest, most complicated discipline.

The only thing I wish is that the levels for footwork and SBS spins would be less demanding for pairs to allow for more freedom and unison.

NaVi said:

I highly question the need for every pairs program to need to have both a twist lift and a death spiral.

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What? The twist is one of the major elements that makes pair skating what it is and separates it from singles and ice dancing. It's exciting, daring, and one of the only high-flying aspects of our sport. It's also one of the biggest ways to compare one pair to another. When you see a pair who truly has an exceptional twist, it's quite special.

NaVi said:

I love the step sequences in the SP but for some reason there is not one in the FS.

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There's no time for pairs to do a step sequence in the LP, especially now that programs have been shorted to 4 min. There are so many different elements, some of which take up a long time like lifts, so there's only time for a choreographic sequence. For those who want to see more steps, they'd have to watch ice dancing. I prefer the pair elements.