Skating on rough ice

GracieGoldIsBAE · Nov 23, 2018

So..
I've FINALLY got a FITTING pair of Edea Chorus with the new Ultima Legacy 8 blade.

I used to be able to do singles but lutz and loop easily, also a two foot and a back scratch spin in my rental skates.

Now, i stepped on the ice, got used to the blades and boots in 30 minutes.. But all my jumps were terrible and i couldnt even do a scratch spin.

The ice was pretty rough - not deep enough shaving after a hockey trainig. Can this affect my spins and jumps this much? During my spins, i felt like my blades are getting stuck in the ice, and then i always lost balance

Curlygirly81 · Nov 23, 2018

Could it be the boots.. Have you skated in them before?

Sam L · Nov 23, 2018

Sorry but you shouldn't be doing singles in rental skates and you're probably feeling your jumps are terrible because they were never proper jumps in the first place. I'm having trouble picturing a coach letting you do singles in rental skates so I'm guessing you were doing all this yourself?

Cut ice that's not shaved properly after hockey shouldn't affect good technique that much. Now if you had told me you were on a frozen natural lake with natural elements in or on the ice, I might agree. That's a whole different set of ice.

DanseMacabre · Nov 23, 2018

What Sam L said re: technique. Also new boots and blades are going to take a while to adjust to. Especially Edeas because of their unique construction. If the jumps and spins are off, I'm guessing that your body isn't as adjusted to them as your brain thinks. Subpar ice wouldn't steal every skill from your skating toolbox.

Ic3Rabbit · Nov 23, 2018

If the ice is too hard, it makes it more difficult to get what is needed as far as figure skating blades goes. Hockey thrives on very hard ice, figure skating not so much.
But even with hard ice, that is not what is accounting for everything that is happening with you, so stick it out and get used to your new skates, and it should come around.

GracieGoldIsBAE · Nov 23, 2018

Whoops, wrong word, not rental, recreational. (Some used jackson English is not my native, sorry.

hanyuufan5 · Nov 23, 2018

Yeah, adjustment and technique. You'll need more than 30 minutes to get used to them.

Unless you've only skated on smooth, fresh ice and this was your first time ever on rough ice, that probably didn't have much to do with it.

That being said, I could be completely wrong, but your blades "getting stuck on the ice" is how I describe what skating on blades with rust or nicks on them feels like. Did you get your new skates properly sharpened? You need to even if they're new.

For spins, recreational skates have bad spin rockers if any at all. Having real ones will take some getting used to.

For jumps, it could be that your technique isn't that good and now you need to fix it, OR, it could be that your technique is actually very good but you had to put more power into everything to get the bad skates to cooperate. When you say your jumps are terrible, what do you mean? Are you underrotating them or two-footing them? Or are you overrotating them because you had to throw a lot of effort into them in your recreational skates and are still trying to do it the same way?

treblemakerem · Nov 23, 2018

You probably just need more time to adjust. I had landed up to lutz when I got new boots and blades. Edges felt great right away but it took me about a week to get my spins back and at least 3 weeks for jumps and even longer for my sit spin and loop combo took me forever. I was skating around 8-10 hours a week then. It takes a while to adjust to a different rocker and you might have to retrain your body how to do certain things.

GracieGoldIsBAE · Nov 24, 2018

I 2foot my flip, my toe is fine, a bit shaky on the landing. I just cant get up on the toepicks on waltz(seriously, this used to be my best, now cant even do one),my sal is nonexistent.

tstop4me · Nov 24, 2018

GracieGoldIsBAE said:
The ice was pretty rough - not deep enough shaving after a hockey trainig. Can this affect my spins and jumps this much? During my spins, i felt like my blades are getting stuck in the ice, and then i always lost balance

My rink has gone through an extended period of extremely variable ice conditions (malfunctioning chillers, dehumidifiers, and Zamboni's, and newbie staff). What I noticed was that the really good skaters adapted well ... some were landing triples and doing flying camels on what I considered really crappy ice. I, and other less capable skaters, were more sensitive to ice conditions. I can't address jumps, but I have a difficult time spinning on rough ice. Sometimes I'll scout out the surface, and I'll be able to find a small patch of relatively smooth ice to practice on. But there are times when the entire surface is crappy, and I give up on practicing spins for that session. I also find it easier to spin when the ice is hard.

bunnybarista · Nov 24, 2018

tstop4me said:
My rink has gone through an extended period of extremely variable ice conditions (malfunctioning chillers, dehumidifiers, and Zamboni's, and newbie staff). What I noticed was that the really good skaters adapted well ... some were landing triples and doing flying camels on what I considered really crappy ice. I, and other less capable skaters, were more sensitive to ice conditions. I can't address jumps, but I have a difficult time spinning on rough ice. Sometimes I'll scout out the surface, and I'll be able to find a small patch of relatively smooth ice to practice on. But there are times when the entire surface is crappy, and I give up on practicing spins for that session. I also find it easier to spin when the ice is hard.

Seconding this. I, too, notice that higher-level skaters aren't bothered by ice that is bumpy/slushy/hockey-fied/rough/insert-other-bad-condition. Meanwhile, I have also gotten "stuck" trying to spin when the ice is rough. Feels like I get stuck in ruts from others' blades. I imagine it's because I don't have enough power to push through the rougher ice yet, nor the confidence to trust that I won't die if I hit a big bump. It comes with experience, it would seem.

hanyuufan5 · Nov 24, 2018

GracieGoldIsBAE said:
I 2foot my flip, my toe is fine, a bit shaky on the landing. I just cant get up on the toepicks on waltz(seriously, this used to be my best, now cant even do one),my sal is nonexistent.

Again, only going from personal experience and could be totally wrong, but this screams "needs a sharpening" to me. My sal goes on vacation to Mars if my skates aren't sharp enough.

Ic3Rabbit · Nov 24, 2018

bunnybarista said:
Seconding this. I, too, notice that higher-level skaters aren't bothered by ice that is bumpy/slushy/hockey-fied/rough/insert-other-bad-condition. Meanwhile, I have also gotten "stuck" trying to spin when the ice is rough. Feels like I get stuck in ruts from others' blades. I imagine it's because I don't have enough power to push through the rougher ice yet, nor the confidence to trust that I won't die if I hit a big bump. It comes with experience, it would seem.

We aren't, but I was just saying that figure skating blades generally don't like very hard ice.

Princessroja · Nov 24, 2018

Ic3Rabbit said:
We aren't, but I was just saying that figure skating blades generally don't like very hard ice.

That certainly explains why I have such a harder time practicing on our outdoor rink with its rock hard ice versus my regular indoor rink with (IMO) perfect ice... of course, I'm also just unskilled, but it's nice to know hard ice actually is a bit more difficult to work with.

Ic3Rabbit · Nov 25, 2018

Princessroja said:
That certainly explains why I have such a harder time practicing on our outdoor rink with its rock hard ice versus my regular indoor rink with (IMO) perfect ice... of course, I'm also just unskilled, but it's nice to know hard ice actually is a bit more difficult to work with.

I doubt you're unskilled.

GracieGoldIsBAE · Nov 25, 2018

OK, i just found out where my jump problems are coming from. After you mentioned the "hard ice thing", i asked the rink owner if anything happened to the ice lately.
The rink bought a new "freezer machine" which is much stronger than the one last year, and its too big for the rink size (30x40). The ice is WAAY too hard, and i cant "shove in" my toepicks in the ice enough when i'm doing edge jumps. Toe jumps actually work because i can "toe-hammer" them(i know its bad technique).
Also, i had a session today with clean and smooth ice, and i could spin again.

Thanks for the help!

hanyuufan5 · Nov 25, 2018

Glad your problems are solved!

Ic3Rabbit said:
We aren't, but I was just saying that figure skating blades generally don't like very hard ice.

What do you mean by that? Is it bad for them? My freestyle sessions are different ice on different days. One rink's ice is significantly thinner than the other's and feels very different. I'm not sure how to describe it, but it makes sense from a physics standpoint that it might be harder. Should I avoid that one? On the other hand, the other rink is used more and is often has lots of bumps. As far as I can tell, it doesn't make any difference for my skating, but which is worse for my blades?

Ic3Rabbit · Nov 25, 2018

hanyuufan5 said:
Glad your problems are solved!

What do you mean by that? Is it bad for them? My freestyle sessions are different ice on different days. One rink's ice is significantly thinner than the other's and feels very different. I'm not sure how to describe it, but it makes sense from a physics standpoint that it might be harder. Should I avoid that one? On the other hand, the other rink is used more and is often has lots of bumps. As far as I can tell, it doesn't make any difference for my skating, but which is worse for my blades?

Most rink managers in N. America at least, usually have their ice temp set for about 24/25 degrees. Hockey blades love 17-24 degrees and figure skating blades anywhere from 25-32. The softer ice for figure skating allows for softer landings and for the edges to grip and glide better. This does not do the same for hockey blades, it causes them to dig in more and drag, hence why very hard ice is best for those.

I hope this helped.

Princessroja · Nov 25, 2018

Ic3Rabbit said:
I doubt you're unskilled.

Oh believe me, I am! :laugh:

Adult Basic 4 here... thanks for the encouragement, though :biggrin:

silver.blades · Nov 26, 2018

Glad your problem seems to be solved. I just wanted to say that I also switched from Jacksons to Edeas a few years ago and had similar issues. I'm a strong skater and was still landing doubles at the time and I could barely skate my first day out. Forget spins or jumps, I could barely stroke. I gave up and switched to Riedells, so kudos to you for sticking with the Edeas.

Skating on rough ice

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