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Thread: What skaters have left the biggest legacy?

  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    1. Takahashi - he was 5th in LP 156.98 TES 73.48!!

    2. Kozuka- he was 8th in LP 151.60 TES 78.40 ( 8th in short TES 42.14!!!)

    3. Plushenko- he was 2nd in LP 165.51 TES 82.71 (SP TES 51.10!!)


    I'm really curious how they could have been ahead of Plushenko?
    You're just showing us the judges' scores. Takahashi had better spins, footwork, and better programs and skating skills in general in that event, and so did Kozuka, across both programs.

    Kozuka even had a MORE difficult LP, because he actually attempted the 3F, a harder 3A combo, had a 3 jump combo, and also attempted that 3A so late in the program. Takahashi also had a more difficult LP in terms of technique, for that matter, even though he actually fell on his quad attempt, he attempted the 3F and had a 3A late in the program. For that matter, Plushy made small errors in almost all his jumping passes (some of those axes were bad). Along with the PCS gaps, Takahashi and Kozuka were ahead.

    For the SP, neither Takahashi nor Kozuka had harder jumps, but again better spins and footwork, and the PCS gap was enough to swallow Plushy's lead on jumps.

    In the event, Plushy was overscored both on GOEs and PCS. So all this added up to that particular top 6 for me.

  2. #222
    Bona Fide Member plushyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chopinskate View Post
    You're just showing us the judges' scores. Takahashi had better spins, footwork, and better programs and skating skills in general in that event, and so did Kozuka, across both programs.

    Kozuka even had a MORE difficult LP, because he actually attempted the 3F, a harder 3A combo, had a 3 jump combo, and also attempted that 3A so late in the program. Takahashi also had a more difficult LP in terms of technique, for that matter, even though he actually fell on his quad attempt, he attempted the 3F and had a 3A late in the program. For that matter, Plushy made small errors in almost all his jumping passes (some of those axes were bad). Along with the PCS gaps, Takahashi and Kozuka were ahead.

    For the SP, neither Takahashi nor Kozuka had harder jumps, but again better spins and footwork, and the PCS gap was enough to swallow Plushy's lead on jumps.

    In the event, Plushy was overscored both on GOEs and PCS. So all this added up to that particular top 6 for me.
    The opinion is free.

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    The opinion is free.
    Like you saying Lysacek was highly overscored in the SP?

  4. #224
    On the Ice Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chopinskate View Post
    I actually personally don't think there was a controversy with who won Nagano. But I do think it was considered controversial/scandalous by a lot of people.

    I know there was the Lycasek v Plushenko. But legitimately wondering why there wasn't more controversy surrounding whether the way the others were judged and placed was right or not. Were people at that point already used to seeing nonsensical PCS judging (again, re: SS mark for Lysacek v Kozuka)? Perhaps as a relic of the already weird Artistic Mark in 6.0?
    I think that it often happens in the Olympics that a narrative is built up featuring a rivalry between two specific skaters. Classically, they are the grizzled champion and the daring whippersnapper nipping at her heels. The pitch is that the new kid on the block is gaining momentum, getting stronger and stronger. Will she catch up and pip the champ at the post, or not?

    The other skaters? No, they don't fit into the main story line. They will play a role only if the top two bomb (and maybe not even then).

    In 1998 ladies it was classy Michelle being chased by red-hot Tara. In 2010 men's, Lysacek had grabbed the momentum by winning the World Championship and then the Grand Prix Final. But Plushenko was PLUSHENKO! (The very name strikes terror into the timid breast.) What would happen?

    2018 ladies, it was Zagitova storming up behind two-time world champion, the unbeatable Medvedeva. The other ladies, Osmond, Miyahara, Kostner, they could only hang around hoping to pick up any leftover crumbs that the headliners left on the table.

    For the Sochi ladies, it was supposed to be Julia Lipnitskaia red-coating her way into everyone's heart. If she had skated in the individuals like she did in the team event, this would have provided the classic scenario that Olympic sponsors salivate over. It didn't turn out that way. But if everything had been exactly the same, only it was Lipnitskaia who had jumped bad* against the legend, instead of Sotnikova, I think there would have been (somewhat ) less uproar. (Yuna Kim fans assure me that I am wrong about this.)

    __________

    * I mean, you know, "jumped bad," not that her jumps were bad.
    Last edited by Mathman; 01-23-2019 at 05:24 PM.

  5. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I think that it often happens in the Olympics that a narrative is built up featuring a rivalry between two specific skaters. Classically, they are the grizzled champion and the daring whippersnapper nipping at her heels.


    Quote Originally Posted by chopinskate View Post
    I am of the opinion that if Nathan had performed a clean short program, they would have handed him the win, deserved or not. Just like they handed it to Zag (though that one's deserved). The figure skating Olympics are about "stories". The boundary-pushing technician Nathan Chen, with his five different types of quads, saying "move over" to an injured Hanyu, just like the boundary-pushing technician Alina Zagitova, with her 3Lz-3Lo and backloading, said "move over" to the injured Medvedeva, is a good story -- that if you fall behind the times, you will be supplanted by fresher, "more deserving" talent. This is the only reason I can use to justify their PCS rise this season (though Nathan deserved at least some of it). It was to create a final showdown.

    (Yuna Kim fans assure me that I am wrong about this.)

  6. #226
    Shepherdess of the Teal Deer Metis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    For the Sochi ladies, it was supposed to be Julia Lipnitskaia red-coating her way into everyone's heart. If she had skated in the individuals like she did in the team event, this would have provided the classic scenario that Olympic sponsors salivate over. It didn't turn out that way. But if everything had been exactly the same, only it was Lipnitskaia who had jumped bad* against the legend, instead of Sotnikova, I think there would have been (somewhat ) less uproar. (Yuna Kim fans assure me that I am wrong about this.)

    __________

    * I mean, you know, "jumped bad," not that her jumps were bad.
    Oh, there would have been outrage, but also a defeated sense that (1) this is the Classic Olympic Storyline and of course they’d do this and (2) home-court advantage. I think the shape of the debate might have been different in places depending on the margin between Yuna’s and Julia’s specific components (TR is about the only one you can say Julia deserves to lead in, with PE/IE/CO being — well, we know how those debates go), various TP calls made (or not), etc., but also the fatigue of “Of course we can’t have a champion repeat, this is what the Olympics always does, this is literally modern Nagano, I’m out.” I think Julia’s programme and her performance abilities were generally better received than Adelina’s, and a Julia upset did seem all but inevitable at Europeans, during the team event, etc.

  7. #227
    Bona Fide Member plushyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chopinskate View Post
    Like you saying Lysacek was highly overscored in the SP?
    You are right!

    But my opinion was a widespread opinion among the FS fans and many experts. Especially among those thousands people who signed a petition against the final result wich was sent to ISU or wrote directly to ISU. And in JUne 2010 the ISU has changed the rules. The guys were happy and started to jump the quads again. Patrick Chan landed in his first quad in that autumn.

  8. #228
    Come to the Plushy-side - we have sparkles! anonymoose_au's Avatar
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    I always thought while in the FS Evan and Plushy's scores were fair enough, in the SP Plushy was definitely underscored. If you look at the score sheet a couple of judges put Plushy's skating skills at the same level as the dude who came 22nd in SP. Now say what you will about Plushy, but I cannot believe that his skating skills were that bad. So really he should have had more of a lead over Evan and thus even with Evan winning the free, Plushy still should have won overall.

    Or maybe Dice T should have won, he had the transitions and the quad! I feel like Plushy wouldn't have had any complaints if that had been the case

    I often feel all those people who wished Plushy would go away shot themselves in the foot with Vancouver, had Plushy won there, I'm sure he would have retired and not bothered people at Sochi

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