GPF: Free Dance - Thoughts and Highlights

gsk8 · Dec 9, 2018

USA’s Madison Hubbell and Zachary Donohue vindicated three years of consecutive medal losses at the Grand Prix Final to win the event in Vancouver with a passionate free dance and season’s best scores.

The Americans powered across the ice in their re-worked “Romeo and Juliet” free dance which featured dramatic lifts, level 4 twizzles, strong level 3 diagonal steps, and the night’s best program component scores. Judges rewarded them with a personal best free dance score of 124.82 and total event score of 205.35. The 2018 U.S. National Champions made extensive changes to the free dance following Skate Canada.

“I think we achieved what we wanted to which was to pull out the performance,” Hubbell said. “We finished not knowing exactly what the score would be because, a little bit like yesterday, we went fully into the character of the program, and being so new, there were plenty of little bobbles and places to lose points. The protocol isn’t completely clean yet, but we were able to really pull up the GOE and pull up the PCS in order to give us a season’s best, so we are very proud.”

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Share your thoughts on the Free Dance at the 2018-19 Grand Prix Final!

Roast Toast · Dec 9, 2018

I know people are taking Madi's comments about prioritizing performance over levels as some sort of doom and gloom death sentence for the technical scoring of Ice Dance but I thought levels actually ended up being pretty relevant here. Madi and Zach won, but they almost conceded the free dance to S/K again and their margin of victory was really kinda small considering that based on their standing last season they should have crushed this field. The changes to both programs were needed and although I would have preferred them to ditch the free entirely I think the end result was convincing. It's up to them to turn the tides by worlds but I would say this grand prix season has considerably weakened their world #2 spot and a lot of it can in fact be attributed to missing levels here and there. This GPF win could go the same way as Weapo's back in the last post-Olympic season.

Meanwhile in comparison both S/K and G/F overperformed and both were suitably rewarded for at least somewhat hitting their levels in the RD. Actually, "overperformed" is the wrong word; we probably were presumptuous in assuming that S/B were the chosen ones considering they had an easier road to the final with Rostelecom being the emptiest dance field on the grand prix. Their tendency to bomb the pattern that posters somehow still insist does not matter anymore under the -5/+5 GOE rules clearly played a factor here as I truly believe they had the most Rusfed backing going into this event in spite of Nikita's Olympic medals. And I mean I don't think the fight between the Russian teams is at all done but most people, myself included, that bought the hype -- check the predictions thread! -- would probably agree that they no longer projected such an aura of dominance against a stacked field with stronger basics. They are very charismatic skaters and I still dig their free dance, but I thought S/K and to an extent G/F both outskated them technically and were properly rewarded for it. In fact I am personally well on the way to ubering S/K myself as that RD is incredible imo but the, let's say... bad press... he's received in the past is making me hold back. I at least am no longer waiting for the meltdown to inevitably occur when I watch them skate, so that's nice. G/F are good, and they were very moved and teary and cute in the Kiss&Cry, but I kinda struggle to change my perception of them as a B-rank team and the La La Land program doesn't help. They proved they can play spoilers at Euros but I'm still in the Russians' corner on this one.

A final note on Z/G: I think a lot of people were upset that they "took" G/P's spot despite smaller scores, but I am very intrigued by the free dance Christopher Dean choreographed for them; it is exceedingly difficult and they are not really up to it, but if/when they get it down in the second half of the season it could imo become something very special and different. I thought they also improved their RD. If I could have replaced anyone here with G/P I would honestly probably have picked H/B, as I find their FD incredibly generic and at times apparently quite literally a rehash of other Gadbois programs. Give me last year's Liebestraum any day over this.

s_parks · Dec 9, 2018

Well, no secret I'm a S/K fan; thrilled with their performance and result here. Love their RD; the FD is fine up until the last minute- that part is too screechy. Anyways, very good for them heading to nationals.
I don't love H/D's FD but without a doubt looked and skated like the strongest skaters. They needed a solid win here and they did it.
Very happy for G/F. Her reaction in the k&c was so sweet.

oly2018 · Dec 9, 2018

Roast Toast said:
I know people are taking Madi's comments about prioritizing performance over GOE as some sort of doom and gloom death sentence for the technical scoring of Ice Dance but I thought levels actually ended up being pretty relevant here. Madi and Zach won, but they almost conceded the free dance to S/K again and their margin of victory was really kinda small considering that based on their standing last season they should have crushed this field. The changes to both programs were needed and although I would have preferred them to ditch the free entirely I think the end result was convincing. It's up to them to turn the tides by worlds but I would say this grand prix season has considerably weakened their world #2 spot and a lot of it can in fact be attributed to missing levels here and there. This GPF win could go the same way as Weapo's back in the last post-Olympic season.

Meanwhile in comparison both S/K and G/F overperformed and both were suitably rewarded for at least somewhat hitting their levels in the RD. Actually, "overperformed" is the wrong word; we probably were presumptuous in assuming that S/B were the chosen ones considering they had an easier road to the final with Rostelecom being the emptiest dance field on the grand prix. Their tendency to bomb the pattern that posters somehow still insist does not matter anymore under the -5/+5 GOE rules clearly played a factor here as I truly believe they had the most Rusfed backing going into this event in spite of Nikita's Olympic medals. And I mean I don't think the fight between the Russian teams is at all done but most people, myself included, that bought the hype -- check the predictions thread! -- would probably agree that they no longer projected such an aura of dominance against a stacked field with stronger basics. They are very charismatic skaters and I still dig their free dance, but I thought S/K and to an extent G/F both outskated them technically and were properly rewarded for it. In fact I am personally well on the way to ubering S/K myself as that RD is incredible imo but the, let's say... bad press... he's received in the past is making me hold back. I at least am no longer waiting for the meltdown to inevitably occur when I watch them skate, so that's nice. G/F are good, and they were very moved and teary and cute in the Kiss&Cry, but I kinda struggle to change my perception of them as a B-rank team and the La La Land program doesn't help. They proved they can play spoilers at Euros but I'm still in the Russians' corner on this one.

A final note on Z/G: I think a lot of people were upset that they "took" G/P's spot despite smaller scores, but I am very intrigued by the free dance Christopher Dean choreographed for them; it is exceedingly difficult and they are not really up to it, but if/when they get it down in the second half of the season it could imo become something very special and different. I thought they also improved their RD. If I could have replaced anyone here with G/P I would honestly probably have picked H/B, as I find their FD incredibly generic and at times apparently quite literally a rehash of other Gadbois programs. Give me last year's Liebestraum any day over this.

I think your analysis is spot on.

H/D- I don't love the changes to either program, but at least they did something with the feedback. However, this win wasn't commanding and imo, they shouldn't have gotten a SB in the long. I think they still need to worry about the Russian teams because S/K are trending upwards and S/B could regain their momentum.

S/K- Their long isn't my favorite, but they were solid under pressure and the judges like them. Give them better programs and next season, they could be a threat.

G/F- They still have my favorite RD of the season and I would argue they were the most technically proficient team here. I hate La La Land and I hate LLL programs, but they sell the heck out of it. I actually think they deserved silver.

S/B- They have programs that could push them to the #2 spot, but in both dances they were a bit sloppy. I am shocked by how much the judges dropped them. They could have been helped out with GOE (like H/D), but they weren't. I wonder if the pressure got them in the moment because quite a few people expected them to win.

Z/G- I do think this was their best outing. I still think Blues for Klook is still to iconic for most people to pull off. I also don't think it works for dance. The music is too sharp.

H/B- They got here because they competed in weak fields and it showed. I used to really like them, but the Montreal mush is not working for me. The RD is really a weak spot for them and I haven't seen any improvement. There is also a video floating around that shows H/B and P/C have the same 1 foot step sequence and the difference in quality is striking. They are still developing, but I think they are at risk of being overtaken but some of the younger US teams.

yuna13 · Dec 9, 2018

Before the event i thought that S/B could beat H/D, i'm surprised by S/B fourth place. It's the first year i don't hate their program. They skated well, the program works so what happened?

S/K : i'm not a fan of zhulin style , usually i don't like the programs he makes (exception for H/K 2016/2017 program) but i like this one, it just works. Most of the time with this team i found nikita to be "too much" but here i found him more subtle.

H/D : kudos to them because they made so much changes in their 2 dances but i'm sorry i'm still not convinced by either both programs. They're so good, i can't believe that the only idea they had was romeo and juliet.
Also the music changes, i don't understand the choice to start with the verone piece, it's like drama, tension, fast music first then romance, slow piece and then she dies exactly like V/M moulin rouge program.

And that:

oly2018 said:
There is also a video floating around that shows H/B and P/C have the same 1 foot step sequence and the difference in quality is striking. They are still developing, but I think they are at risk of being overtaken but some of the younger US teams.

i'm like really?? How did this happened? Not good for H/B, you don't want to be compare to P/C.

G/F : so happy for them, it's not easy to be the second team of your country, they had to wait and wait and finally their time has come and the judges are giving them good score. So deserved.:luv17:

chuckm · Dec 9, 2018

Hawayek / Baker lost a lot of training time because Jean-Luc suffered a concussion and was off the ice.

Skater Boy · Dec 10, 2018

Well the French will eat all these teams out. Hubbell and Donohoe were good but a bit ho hum for me in their win. S and B were a huge disappointment. I am not surprise about the Italians. I think Russia will be hurt in that the top ice dance team is clear as mud. Both are prone to errors SK more so. Both are prone to level issues - SK moreso. But SK have maybe more magic? Not sure but really these two teams might "cancel" each other out

Sugarpova · Dec 10, 2018

SinKats finally did it!!!!!!! :drama:

:hap93::hap93:
no words can describe how satisfied I am! twizzle battle seems like a nightmare that never happened!:luv17: All grown up & amazing SS. They know they're still not perfect but finally they're stable enough!

HD is not my taste this season more than usual... :eek:

hwell: R&J programm seems like a programm for some other dance team ... (someone on fso even made an artwork with HD & Alena :laugh:

) I wanted much more powerful for them & not so overused...

FD imo is weaker for GF than RD but totally deserved medals. (& they were so happy in the KnC bbs! :luv17

I know Im biased but SB always seemed juniourish to me & I always had SinKats as my #1 :think: but what I like about them is they have their own style & their team can mask the unfavourable qualities & show the advantages of the pair with the dances. I bet the fight over #1 inthe Nats team isnt over yet!

skylark · Dec 10, 2018

I was surprised that In the 6-minute warm-up intro, one of the first things mentioned for S/B was the prior accomplishments of Bukin's father! I've never heard such in an introduction of a skater ... but perhaps I haven't listened to enough 6-minute warm-ups.

It seems crazy imo to borrow credit in that particular moment ... but even more, if I were Bukin I wouldn't be best pleased.

BillNeal · Dec 10, 2018

These teams are all talented and deserving of being here. It gives a chance for new stars to shine. However, for me it lacked the excitement of past GPFs where the fields consisted of at least some combination of V/M, D/W, P/B, I/K, W/P, P/C, C/L, Shibs. I'm glad that we will see W/P and P/C compete at Worlds.

DSQ · Dec 10, 2018

skylark said:
I was surprised that In the 6-minute warm-up intro, one of the first things mentioned for S/B was the prior accomplishments of Bukin's father! I've never heard such in an introduction of a skater ... but perhaps I haven't listened to enough 6-minute warm-ups.

It seems crazy imo to borrow credit in that particular moment ... but even more, if I were Bukin I wouldn't be best pleased.

That also happened with Jean-Luc Baker at the GPF as his mother was a British Ice Dancer. So it’s quite common.

skylark · Dec 10, 2018

^^ I didn't hear that one. But if I were Jean-Luc, I wouldn't have like it either.

LandShark · Dec 10, 2018

Hawayek / Baker.
When I first saw this FD, I thought it was horrendously twee. It has grown on me, and the couple themselves can certainly skate with great quality, but as has been mentioned by others, H/B have just joined the lengthy queue of dancers trying to refine their Gabby 'n Guilly impression. The music is too similar, the mood is too similar, and it's an overcrowded pond. They need to find their own personality.

Zagorski /Guirerro
The music choice doesn't work for them. She was fine, but he looked off form, but it mattered not, because Blues for Klook, skated with that awkward choreography, just isn't doing it for them. More work required to nail it into place yet.

Stepanova /Bukin.

Lordy Lordy Lordy, who rattled their cage? Tired of being dubbed Ice Dance's Dullest Couple last year, they've finally choreographed a FD in anger and have come out all guns blazing, and, guys, it's really rather WONDERFUL! !!

Moody, steamy, glowering, tempestuous, contemptuous, oh boy it has everything and then some.

The bad news - their skate wasn't sharp enough, his slip in the twizzles, timing maybe not quite as good as I've seen it. ....

But what great entertainment. Previously, I've found them an oddly mismatched couple, what with his slightly sloppy grin, and her Ice Cold in Alex on- ice demeanour, but now everybody looks like their on the same side! Hurrah,!
Also that ending, where a few guitar chords chime out lazily through the air and she spins slowly round him before the crashing bang of the denouement. Excellent. More more more please.

Guignard /Fabri.
Beautifully skated, lovely quality. OK, it's not ground breaking or innovative, but this couple never have been it's just not their style. I think they're savvy enough to know where they work best, and having waited an interminable length of time to get to the upper reaches , I don't think they're going to change now.
.
I like them. I'm really pleased for them.

Sinitsina / Katsalapov.
More progress after a long wait.
I love both sections of the dance - the dreamy, floaty first half, and counterbalanced with the touch of agressive grandeur of the second.
If Mr Zhulin truely does just give us the same thing over and over again, then this one has been tweaked just enough to make it seem different. Of course, it's brilliantly skated by two talented people, so that's a start.
.
They don't have as good a finish as S/B though. ......

Hubbel/Donohue
It's all getting so strong , so powerful and muscular, that they're almost turning into a pairs team. Yes, ;great work, quality, great edges, they have all that, I just wish it had a Human Connection for me. That instead of admiring the power, drive and force, that I could love it for its beauty.

Mind you, ;at least I like their music this year.

GPF: Free Dance - Thoughts and Highlights

gsk8

Roast Toast

s_parks

oly2018

yuna13

chuckm

Skater Boy

Sugarpova

#EmpressAirlines #SinKatsapologist

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset

BillNeal

You Know I'm a FS Fan...

DSQ

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset

LandShark

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