Ultima blades and spin rockers

annajzdf · Dec 31, 2018

So this is another post asking about blades, and I would be grateful if some of you could share your experiences.

I'm interested in Ultima's Legacy and Supreme (regular, not Matrix version), specifically their spin rockers and how they compare to other blades, especially Coro Ace/MK Pro and Gold Seal respectively, since supposedly the Ultima models are modelled after them. But as far as I'm aware, that seems to refer to the toe picks only, not the blade profile itself (makes sense, since MK Pro and Coro Ace are different) but I couldn't find much information on the Ultima blades' actual profiles.

I'm an adult skater, I have all my singles, would love to start working on single axel next and I'm currently on Ultima Aspire blades.

I am struggling big time with spins, I hit what felt like it must have been the sweet spot maybe 5-6 times over the course of three years (wow, if spins always felt that great, I might actually enjoy praticing them), but other than that it's just a scratchy mess where I'm forcing myself to somehow spin on the ice, but it feels awful (my camel is the only one that is more or less centered, if I manage one at all, but it still doesn't feel right).

Now I don't wanna blame the equipment, and I am certain that my spin entries are the culprit and I just haven't been able to correct it, but still, I can't help wondering if a different blade wouldn't make things easier for me.
(and even if I don't end up getting a new blade right away, when my blade's sharpening life comes to an end at some point in the future, it would be great to already have some more knowledge when purchasing my next blade)

I would rather stay with an 8' rocker, because I love the stability (I used hockey skates for a few years, skating recreationally, and I don't wanna go back to a more 'rocky' feeling) and because lately I've spend quite some time trying to improve my stroking and glide and working on where I should ideally have my weight on the blade, I feel like I would have to start all over again with a 7' profile, which is why I was thinking of another Ultima blade (Ultima, JW and MK are what's mainly available at our store).
I am aware that the Supreme would be overblading, but from what I learned from other threads, the Legacy hasn't been mentioned as a blade that is particularly conducive to spinning.

I've also been wondering about the differences between gradual vs. more pronounced spin rockers, with the former supposedly being more forgiving and therefore better for beginners, but as already mentioned, I can't say that I've had any success with it... but maybe it would be even worse on a more pronounced rocker? Would I likely end up rocking forward on the toepick all the time, not only during spins but also during footwork doing turns on such a blade?

Yet another thought: Could moving my blades forward 1-2 mm maybe make a difference (although my blades are already pretty much flush with the front of my soles). Is that something that people sometimes try out, and worth checking out?
I only got this idea because I once tried my friend's skates (same blade, same size of blade, boot a half size bigger), just for a few minutes, but spinning instantly felt a lot nicer on them, so I figured that with the differently sized boots, my feet were in a different position relative to the blade/sweet spot.

(sorry for the long 'essay')

Ic3Rabbit · Dec 31, 2018

annajzdf said:
So this is another post asking about blades, and I would be grateful if some of you could share your experiences.

I'm interested in Ultima's Legacy and Supreme (regular, not Matrix version), specifically their spin rockers and how they compare to other blades, especially Coro Ace/MK Pro and Gold Seal respectively, since supposedly the Ultima models are modelled after them. But as far as I'm aware, that seems to refer to the toe picks only, not the blade profile itself (makes sense, since MK Pro and Coro Ace are different) but I couldn't find much information on the Ultima blades' actual profiles.

I'm an adult skater, I have all my singles, would love to start working on single axel next and I'm currently on Ultima Aspire blades.

I am struggling big time with spins, I hit what felt like it must have been the sweet spot maybe 5-6 times over the course of three years (wow, if spins always felt that great, I might actually enjoy praticing them), but other than that it's just a scratchy mess where I'm forcing myself to somehow spin on the ice, but it feels awful (my camel is the only one that is more or less centered, if I manage one at all, but it still doesn't feel right).

Now I don't wanna blame the equipment, and I am certain that my spin entries are the culprit and I just haven't been able to correct it, but still, I can't help wondering if a different blade wouldn't make things easier for me.
(and even if I don't end up getting a new blade right away, when my blade's sharpening life comes to an end at some point in the future, it would be great to already have some more knowledge when purchasing my next blade)

I would rather stay with an 8" rocker, because I love the stability (I used hockey skates for a few years, skating recreationally, and I don't wanna go back to a more 'rocky' feeling) and because lately I've spend quite some time trying to improve my stroking and glide and working on where I should ideally have my weight on the blade, I feel like I would have to start all over again with a 7" profile, which is why I was thinking of another Ultima blade (Ultima, JW and MK are what's mainly available at our store).
I am aware that the Supreme would be overblading, but from what I learned from other threads, the Legacy hasn't been mentioned as a blade that is particularly conducive to spinning.

I've also been wondering about the differences between gradual vs. more pronounced spin rockers, with the former supposedly being more forgiving and therefore better for beginners, but as already mentioned, I can't say that I've had any success with it... but maybe it would be even worse on a more pronounced rocker? Would I likely end up rocking forward on the toepick all the time, not only during spins but also during footwork doing turns on such a blade?

Yet another thought: Could moving my blades forward 1-2 mm maybe make a difference (although my blades are already pretty much flush with the front of my soles). Is that something that people sometimes try out, and worth checking out?
I only got this idea because I once tried my friend's skates (same blade, same size of blade, boot a half size bigger), just for a few minutes, but spinning instantly felt a lot nicer on them, so I figured that with the differently sized boots, my feet were in a different position relative to the blade/sweet spot.

(sorry for the long 'essay')

This is more simple than you think. I would say no to the Ultima blades because they are too flat IMHO.

Also, if you want a 8ft rocker you aren't going to want a Coronation Ace or an MK Pro because they both have 7 ft rockers.

So, what are you left with? A JW Gold Seal (which is great for spins because of it being side honed and also just the whole profile and spin rockers/main rocker) on that blade just makes it that way and the reason so many top skaters use it.

Now, what would I do if I was in your position and at your skill level? I would adapt to a 7 ft rocker and either get a JW Coronation Ace or an MK Pro, or I would look into getting a blade that was discontinued but from my past experience was a great little blade: MK Vision (it's a 7 ft rocker but from my long ago experience was great for spinning and turning because the rocker isn't flat). They can also be ordered in parabolic which might be of a help to you too. It can still be purchased at some of the discount skating websites, just make sure you shop around because they are considerably cheaper some places than others.

Good luck! :biggrin:

Curlygirly81 · Dec 31, 2018

I've always skated in Aces, I recently bought a new boot to solely teach in and got a legacy 8 blade. I plan on testing these out to see how I adjust to an 8" rocker for spinning and jumping.. I'll let you know what I think in a week or two lol
I do love my aces though. Good solid blade.

annajzdf · Jan 1, 2019

Thank you for taking the time to answer.

Ic3Rabbit said:
So, what are you left with? A JW Gold Seal (which is great for spins because of it being side honed and also just the whole profile and spin rockers/main rocker) on that blade just makes it that way and the reason so many top skaters use it.

Haha, yes, that's what I figured, too, but it's too expensive (and obviously not 'necessary' since I don't 'need' an advanced blade). Which is the reason why I considered the Ultima Supreme, because I could get them for 54-60 % the price of the Gold Seal, but then I couldn't find any info on the Supreme blades' profile and how they compare to the Gold Seal which then led to my post. Just because Ultima claims that it's supposed to be like the Gold Seal, that doesn't mean much, and you certainly don't seem to agree

.

I'm curious, may I ask, if the Gold Seal's profile is so great and spin-and turn-friedly, why don't lower level blades have a similar profile (I don't mean the side-honing, just the profile itself)?

Is this just because it's simply a more complex or well thought out profile and therefore JW makes you pay a higher price for its conception, i.e. the design (obviously part of the price is also the quality of the steel and finishing)?

Or are there actually any drawbacks for lower level skaters, that make it difficult to handle the Gold Seal?

Curlygirly81 said:
I've always skated in Aces, I recently bought a new boot to solely teach in and got a legacy 8 blade. I plan on testing these out to see how I adjust to an 8" rocker for spinning and jumping.. I'll let you know what I think in a week or two lol
I do love my aces though. Good solid blade.

That would be great! :agree:

Ic3Rabbit · Jan 1, 2019

annajzdf said:
Thank you for taking the time to answer.

Haha, yes, that's what I figured, too, but it's too expensive (and obviously not 'necessary' since I don't 'need' an advanced blade). Which is the reason why I considered the Ultima Supreme, because I could get them for 54-60 % the price of the Gold Seal, but then I couldn't find any info on the Supreme blades' profile and how they compare to the Gold Seal which then led to my post. Just because Ultima claims that it's supposed to be like the Gold Seal, that doesn't mean much, and you certainly don't seem to agree .

I'm curious, may I ask, if the Gold Seal's profile is so great and spin-and turn-friedly, why don't lower level blades have a similar profile (I don't mean the side-honing, just the profile itself)?

Is this just because it's simply a more complex or well thought out profile and therefore JW makes you pay a higher price for its conception, i.e. the design (obviously part of the price is also the quality of the steel and finishing)?

Or are there actually any drawbacks for lower level skaters, that make it difficult to handle the Gold Seal?

You're welcome. I know you don't need a top of the line blade, no one at your level does: But, I suggested it because with the requirements you wanted in a blade, and that was one of the only ones that filled it. I also know they are expensive, I have to buy 2 sets of P99's every 9-15 months.

As far as your other questions: JW used to offer their blades in parabolic, but no longer do (you can still find them online at discount skating stores though), and I know MK still does offer many in parabolic for your level of skating. I did tell you about the MK Vision that existed and that you can still get it online as a happy medium between intermediate and top level blades that would more than likely give you the responsiveness you want in your spins and turns as well as having a great profile and pick for learning more advanced jumps as you progress. I mean TBH anything even a bit better than your current blade will feel like an improvement.

Good luck! :biggrin:

Nimyue · Jan 2, 2019

annajzdf said:
So this is another post asking about blades, and I would be grateful if some of you could share your experiences.

I'm interested in Ultima's Legacy and Supreme (regular, not Matrix version), specifically their spin rockers and how they compare to other blades, especially Coro Ace/MK Pro and Gold Seal respectively, since supposedly the Ultima models are modelled after them. But as far as I'm aware, that seems to refer to the toe picks only, not the blade profile itself (makes sense, since MK Pro and Coro Ace are different) but I couldn't find much information on the Ultima blades' actual profiles.

I'm an adult skater, I have all my singles, would love to start working on single axel next and I'm currently on Ultima Aspire blades.

I am struggling big time with spins, I hit what felt like it must have been the sweet spot maybe 5-6 times over the course of three years (wow, if spins always felt that great, I might actually enjoy praticing them), but other than that it's just a scratchy mess where I'm forcing myself to somehow spin on the ice, but it feels awful (my camel is the only one that is more or less centered, if I manage one at all, but it still doesn't feel right).

Now I don't wanna blame the equipment, and I am certain that my spin entries are the culprit and I just haven't been able to correct it, but still, I can't help wondering if a different blade wouldn't make things easier for me.
(and even if I don't end up getting a new blade right away, when my blade's sharpening life comes to an end at some point in the future, it would be great to already have some more knowledge when purchasing my next blade)

I would rather stay with an 8" rocker, because I love the stability (I used hockey skates for a few years, skating recreationally, and I don't wanna go back to a more 'rocky' feeling) and because lately I've spend quite some time trying to improve my stroking and glide and working on where I should ideally have my weight on the blade, I feel like I would have to start all over again with a 7" profile, which is why I was thinking of another Ultima blade (Ultima, JW and MK are what's mainly available at our store).
I am aware that the Supreme would be overblading, but from what I learned from other threads, the Legacy hasn't been mentioned as a blade that is particularly conducive to spinning.

I've also been wondering about the differences between gradual vs. more pronounced spin rockers, with the former supposedly being more forgiving and therefore better for beginners, but as already mentioned, I can't say that I've had any success with it... but maybe it would be even worse on a more pronounced rocker? Would I likely end up rocking forward on the toepick all the time, not only during spins but also during footwork doing turns on such a blade?

Yet another thought: Could moving my blades forward 1-2 mm maybe make a difference (although my blades are already pretty much flush with the front of my soles). Is that something that people sometimes try out, and worth checking out?
I only got this idea because I once tried my friend's skates (same blade, same size of blade, boot a half size bigger), just for a few minutes, but spinning instantly felt a lot nicer on them, so I figured that with the differently sized boots, my feet were in a different position relative to the blade/sweet spot.

(sorry for the long 'essay')

I had the Aspire XP on my Freestyles and could not spin at all. I switched to a CA, and low and behold the spins were just there. The Aspire has very little spin rocker. I compared them side by side and it was drastically different. I don't have experience with their higher end blades though. I think when you go for the Matrix it will be better than the Aspire. The Aspire is an awful blade. It's good for learning edges and stroking, very basic skills, but once you are doing turns and spins, it's just not a high enough level of blade.

ETA: Adjusting to the 7ft rocker was not an issue. The only thing I noticed was that I was a bit slower... but I was too fast on the Aspire so the CA gave me more control. IMO spin rockers are harder to adjust to than the difference between an overall rocker. I really don't think it's anything you need to be concerned about. Just get a CA or MK Pro. They have the best spin rockers that you can buy at that price point and the 7 ft rocker won't be much of an adjustment.

annajzdf · Jan 2, 2019

Nimyue said:
I had the Aspire XP on my Freestyles and could not spin at all. I switched to a CA, and low and behold the spins were just there.

Well I’m trying not to get my hopes up too much, I have friends who are ‚spin-challenged’ like me, and they skate on (or have changed to) 7' rockers and I don’t think it made that much of a difference.
But then, everyone has a different experience or different reasons why they struggle with certain skills, and I’m certainly at a point where I wanna try a different blade out of sheer desperation.

Nimyue said:
The Aspire is an awful blade. It's good for learning edges and stroking, very basic skills, but once you are doing turns and spins, it's just not a high enough level of blade.

I actually never had a problem with turns on my Aspire blades (except for twizzles which are the horror), and I’d say that my skating friends on 7' rockered blades (MK Pros or similar) are actually less successful at them.
But who knows, maybe I don’t realise how much room for improvement there is with a different blade, since I don’t know anything else (or maybe my entry and exit edges are what’s fine, and that conceals the fact that the turns themselves are not so great and sloppy :think

.

Coming from hockey blades, which have a rocker but no spin rocker, and having tried a forward outside 3 turn on them just out of curiousity, I was pleasantly surprised during my first sessions on the Aspire, my first actual figure skating blades (not those crappy, pseudo, recreational ones that I had skated on since childhood), when the blades did the 3 turn almost on their own… I remember thinking, boy, these blades do love to turn. :laugh:

Oh, I also forgot, I have tried Legacy blades once (normal version), but they didn’t feel much different from my current blades, but then again, I was only on them for a few minutes, and the friend I borrowed the skates from wears the same size as me but gosh, her feet must be twice as wide as mine, so her boots didn’t fit me at all, so there’s not much widsom to be gained from that little experiment.
(I also once tried another friend’s Matrix Legacies, but her skates are 1 or even 1,5 sizes smaller than mine, so that was just for fun, to have a laugh, and very, very uncomfortable for my toes lol. Oh btw, that friend is of course really good at spins... sigh)

Ic3Rabbit · Jan 2, 2019

Nimyue said:
I had the Aspire XP on my Freestyles and could not spin at all. I switched to a CA, and low and behold the spins were just there. The Aspire has very little spin rocker. I compared them side by side and it was drastically different. I don't have experience with their higher end blades though. I think when you go for the Matrix it will be better than the Aspire. The Aspire is an awful blade. It's good for learning edges and stroking, very basic skills, but once you are doing turns and spins, it's just not a high enough level of blade.

ETA: Adjusting to the 7ft rocker was not an issue. The only thing I noticed was that I was a bit slower... but I was too fast on the Aspire so the CA gave me more control. IMO spin rockers are harder to adjust to than the difference between an overall rocker. I really don't think it's anything you need to be concerned about. Just get a CA or MK Pro. They have the best spin rockers that you can buy at that price point and the 7 ft rocker won't be much of an adjustment.

From experience: Just say no to the matrix blades.

Curlygirly81 · Jan 3, 2019

Hey! So I tried out my new legacy 8 today..I mentioned in an earlier reply that I've spent most of my skating career in coronation aces.
I had zero adjustment to the legacy 8, had no issue what so ever. It was great! Obviously felt flatter, I was able to spin and jump without any issue. I would say the flatter rocker makes you feel more stable. The edge quality from the Jackson to the Wilson blade is undetectable in my opinion.

tstop4me · Jan 4, 2019

Curlygirly81 said:
Hey! So I tried out my new legacy 8 today..I mentioned in an earlier reply that I've spent most of my skating career in coronation aces.
I had zero adjustment to the legacy 8, had no issue what so ever. It was great! Obviously felt flatter, I was able to spin and jump without any issue. I would say the flatter rocker makes you feel more stable. The edge quality from the Jackson to the Wilson blade is undetectable in my opinion.

I'd be interested in more details of how the spin rockers compare. Is the spin rocker on the Legacy 8 flatter than that on the Coronation Ace, or about the same? Any difference in nailing a scratch spin? Thanks.

Curlygirly81 · Jan 4, 2019

tstop4me said:
I'd be interested in more details of how the spin rockers compare. Is the spin rocker on the Legacy 8 flatter than that on the Coronation Ace, or about the same? Any difference in nailing a scratch spin? Thanks.

The rocker is flatter on the legacy 8 but I didn't notice any difference when spinning or jumping. Hope that helps!

annajzdf · Jan 7, 2019

Curlygirly81 said:
Hey! So I tried out my new legacy 8 today..I mentioned in an earlier reply that I've spent most of my skating career in coronation aces.
I had zero adjustment to the legacy 8, had no issue what so ever. It was great! Obviously felt flatter, I was able to spin and jump without any issue. I would say the flatter rocker makes you feel more stable. The edge quality from the Jackson to the Wilson blade is undetectable in my opinion.

Sounds great! :agree:
I envy you, being able to spin and jump successfully, no matter which blades you're on, it seems :laugh:

Curlygirly81 · Jan 7, 2019

annajzdf said:
Sounds great! :agree:
I envy you, being able to spin and jump successfully, no matter which blades you're on, it seems

Lol

a couple of decades of skating helps lol

Yannis94 · Dec 31, 2019

I would switch to JW Coronation Ace as the JW Gold Seal seems a bit of a stretch. But if you don't like Jackson blades at that low level, you won't like them in a legacy 8 form either. I had no trouble centering my spins but I was forced to switch to the legacy 8 when I went for my new boots and I can't center my spins to save my life.

Ic3Rabbit · Dec 31, 2019

Yannis94 said:
I would switch to JW Coronation Ace as the JW Gold Seal seems a bit of a stretch. But if you don't like Jackson blades at that low level, you won't like them in a legacy 8 form either. I had no trouble centering my spins but I was forced to switch to the legacy 8 when I went for my new boots and I can't center my spins to save my life.

Have you tried MK or JW blades? The Ultima's are too flat in the rocker and many have issues with trying to spin on them. Same with Matrix, plus the matrix line are a pain in the you know what to get sharpened beacause of needing a special jig, and if a sharpener doesn't know what they are doing, can easily wreck them forever.

Yannis94 · Jan 1, 2020

Ic3Rabbit said:
Have you tried MK or JW blades? The Ultima's are too flat in the rocker and many have issues with trying to spin on them. Same with Matrix, plus the matrix line are a pain in the you know what to get sharpened beacause of needing a special jig, and if a sharpener doesn't know what they are doing, can easily wreck them forever.

I've always skated in MK blades. Started on the MK 21 before I moved up to MK Double star and after that to MK Professional. Then switched back to MK Double Star because I had quit competitive skating.

Now I have picked up adult skating and my skates began bothering my feet in the navicular area since I have accessory navicular syndrome. I switched to Edea but where I bought my skates, they only carried Jackson Blades. I have the old Jackson Legacy. So 8 ft main rocker, no clue about the spin rocker but from what I've found it's supposedly a 27" radius but it feels flatter than my bum.

I highly regret that decision as I was able to center my spins from the get go on my MK Professionals and Double Stars. I hit that drag pick too easily and they dull so fast. 12 hours of skating and my edges were gone. I don't think I'll make the end of the season in these blades. I'm planning to invest in JW Gold Seal or Pattern 99. I'm more leaning to Gold Seal but that toe pick on the Pattern 99 is just so...alluring.

Luckily for me my birthday is mid February and I think with the money I'm going ask, I'll buy myself those JW blades.

Ic3Rabbit · Jan 1, 2020

Yannis94 said:
I've always skated in MK blades. Started on the MK 21 before I moved up to MK Double star and after that to MK Professional. Then switched back to MK Double Star because I had quit competitive skating.

Now I have picked up adult skating and my skates began bothering my feet in the navicular area since I have accessory navicular syndrome. I switched to Edea but where I bought my skates, they only carried Jackson Blades. I have the old Jackson Legacy. So 8 ft main rocker, no clue about the spin rocker but from what I've found it's supposedly a 27" radius but it feels flatter than my bum.

I highly regret that decision as I was able to center my spins from the get go on my MK Professionals and Double Stars. I hit that drag pick too easily and they dull so fast. 12 hours of skating and my edges were gone. I don't think I'll make the end of the season in these blades. I'm planning to invest in JW Gold Seal or Pattern 99. I'm more leaning to Gold Seal but that toe pick on the Pattern 99 is just so...alluring.

Luckily for me my birthday is mid February and I think with the money I'm going ask, I'll buy myself those JW blades.

From what you are saying, I'd suggest the JW Gold Seal to you. But you know, if you really love MK blades, a Gold Star is a great blade and more the rocker radius you like.

I wear Pattern 99's. I've been through about every blade in my career :laugh:

and I've stuck with P99's because I'm a strong jumper etc, I just love them and they fit for me as a pro.

Yannis94 · Jan 1, 2020

Ic3Rabbit said:
From what you are saying, I'd suggest the JW Gold Seal to you. But you know, if you really love MK blades, a Gold Star is a great blade and more the rocker radius you like. I wear Pattern 99's. I've been through about every blade in my career and I've stuck with P99's because I'm a strong jumper etc, I just love them and they fit for me as a pro.

I do love the 8ft rock profile of the Ultima. So hence why I want to switch to JW as MK doesn't offer high end blades with an 8ft rocker. I felt turns were a bit wobbly on my 7ft blades. Especially twizzles. But I don't have that problem any more. So there is that. But thanks for the advice.

Ic3Rabbit · Jan 1, 2020

Yannis94 said:
I do love the 8ft rock profile of the Ultima. So hence why I want to switch to JW as MK doesn't offer high end blades with an 8ft rocker. I felt turns were a bit wobbly on my 7ft blades. Especially twizzles. But I don't have that problem any more. So there is that. But thanks for the advice.

OH I know, I just got confused because you seemed to say you liked the rockers on your MK's, hence why I suggested Gold Stars, but did also suggest Gold Seal for that 8ft rocker being a JW blade.

energywithin22 · Jan 2, 2020

Ic3Rabbit said:
OH I know, I just got confused because you seemed to say you liked the rockers on your MK's, hence why I suggested Gold Stars, but did also suggest Gold Seal for that 8ft rocker being a JW blade.

I'm actually considering buying Gold Seal next, currently on Jackson Ultima 8" (the lightweight one), and I do like them, just.. not for spins

that's why I've been looking into Gold Seal/Gold Seal Revs. I'm an adult skater but I do love to skate with speed and really like working on steps/toe steps, turns, combining them etc. I'm still working on my single jumps and tbh it's gonna take me about a year before I can afford those blades, anyway, haha. But what would you say?

Ultima blades and spin rockers

annajzdf

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️

Curlygirly81

annajzdf

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️

Nimyue

annajzdf

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️

Curlygirly81

tstop4me

Curlygirly81

annajzdf

Curlygirly81

Yannis94

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️

Yannis94

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️

Yannis94

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️

energywithin22

Similar threads

Connect with us