How to come up with nice choreography? | Golden Skate

How to come up with nice choreography?

ypht96

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 28, 2018
Hello everyone!

I want to participate in an adult competition (my first one, yay!) soon and started to think about my program. I also studied the rules (required skills etc.) but I just don‘t know how to start with a nice choreography and there‘s not much on the internet about this topic. I was thinking about matching the required elements with the music first and then filling up with steps, moves, spirals etc. And what about arm/head/body movements? The coaches of my group class don‘t really care about this very much unfortunately.

So how do you do it? Any good advice?

Thanks in advance! :)
 

sandraskates

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
Welcome to the forum!
I suggest finding music that you really like and yet is not above your skill level (meaning not too fast or too intense), picking the parts you like and having it cut to fit the allowed time frame.

You may easily identify where a jump, spin, connecting steps could go. Then work with a coach or choreographer. Even though I coach, when I create a routine for myself, I still work with another coach as a "second set of eyes" and creativity critic. You sound like you have something in mind already. :)

I'm sure you'll get other good suggestions from readers. Good luck!
 

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
Hello everyone!

I want to participate in an adult competition (my first one, yay!) soon and started to think about my program. I also studied the rules (required skills etc.) but I just don‘t know how to start with a nice choreography and there‘s not much on the internet about this topic. I was thinking about matching the required elements with the music first and then filling up with steps, moves, spirals etc. And what about arm/head/body movements? The coaches of my group class don‘t really care about this very much unfortunately.

So how do you do it? Any good advice?

Thanks in advance! :)

Choreography doesn't really work like that. You need to find someone that can choreograph you a program like you need, it doesn't have to be anything extravagant, but choreography isn't for everyone.

One must have enough ice experience to know what they are even doing to make proper choreography, especially for competitive programs, so I encourage you and others to find someone that can help you.
 

ypht96

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 28, 2018
Well, it‘s quite hard here to find someone who can do this. I can only imagine asking the choreographers who work for the Olympic Team and for the ones who are really high level but I think this is going to be really expensive. It‘s not like in the US where Choreographers are almost everywhere
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
Well, it‘s quite hard here to find someone who can do this. I can only imagine asking the choreographers who work for the Olympic Team and for the ones who are really high level but I think this is going to be really expensive. It‘s not like in the US where Choreographers are almost everywhere

If the group coaches aren't into it, are there private coaches who might be able to help? My coach put together my first few programs. Eventually we reached a point where I started coming to her with the basic skeleton of my idea for the program and she would help flesh it out. It is something you need experience with.
 

Scout

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
The coaches of my group class don‘t really care about this very much unfortunately.

Hi!

Do the coaches of the group class not care about your program specifically because the session is a GROUP session? I don't know how your group classes work, but I would guess that doing choreography for an individual skater would be outside of what they are paid to do and expected to do on a group session. They should not be expected to cut music and start playing around with choreography on their own time, free of charge. Additionally, working with you on the choreography during group classes might mean they need to spend a lot of time with you and less time with others, which would be unfair to the other skaters.

Have you asked any of the group coaches if they would be willing to give you some private lessons (at whatever their personal coaching rate is) on another session?
 

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
If the group coaches aren't into it, are there private coaches who might be able to help? My coach put together my first few programs. Eventually we reached a point where I started coming to her with the basic skeleton of my idea for the program and she would help flesh it out. It is something you need experience with.

:agree: This is what I was talking about in OP's case. OP, I never said to go ask the Olympic team choreographers, that would be too advanced and expensive.
 

Seren

Wakabond Forever
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
I also suggest talking with a coach in your rink- if your group coaches aren’t into it maybe ask if there is a coach they recommend for choreography. Making a program isn’t easy, I find my own music but then my coach choreographs the program. She knows more than I will ever know in this area.
 

vlaurend

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
I start by listening to the music (after editing it to the right length) and writing down the exact spots in the music where I clearly hear certain elements (for example, 0:35 - spiral, or 1:16 - spin). After writing down as many of those elements as I hear, I plug in the others in-between. Then I draw it out on a to-scale printout of an NHL hockey rink and draw where each element would be happening on the ice and what direction I'd be skating to get from one element to the other. In order to make sure I use all parts of the ice surface and skate both CW and CCW, I often end up having to swap a few of the filler elements to where they fit better. All of this is made much easier by the fact that I have video of myself doing all of my jumps, spins, spirals, etc., and can time how long it takes me to get into each one, complete it and skate out of it without having to do it to the music in real time on the ice. Once I have the layout figured out on paper (and checked my videos to make sure I have enough time for everything), I test out sections of it on the ice. Finally, I have my coach help me fill in the blank sections with transitions, opening moves and ending moves (and if I did a step sequence instead of a choreo sequence, I would definitely have her help me fill in those details). The finishing touch is coming up with specific arm movements and "blending" the transitions in and out of everything, which my coach helps me with also. And, as others have suggested, you need a private lesson for this.
 

Nimyue

On the Ice
Joined
May 15, 2018
I start by listening to the music (after editing it to the right length) and writing down the exact spots in the music where I clearly hear certain elements (for example, 0:35 - spiral, or 1:16 - spin). After writing down as many of those elements as I hear, I plug in the others in-between. Then I draw it out on a to-scale printout of an NHL hockey rink and draw where each element would be happening on the ice and what direction I'd be skating to get from one element to the other. In order to make sure I use all parts of the ice surface and skate both CW and CCW, I often end up having to swap a few of the filler elements to where they fit better. All of this is made much easier by the fact that I have video of myself doing all of my jumps, spins, spirals, etc., and can time how long it takes me to get into each one, complete it and skate out of it without having to do it to the music in real time on the ice. Once I have the layout figured out on paper (and checked my videos to make sure I have enough time for everything), I test out sections of it on the ice. Finally, I have my coach help me fill in the blank sections with transitions, opening moves and ending moves (and if I did a step sequence instead of a choreo sequence, I would definitely have her help me fill in those details). The finishing touch is coming up with specific arm movements and "blending" the transitions in and out of everything, which my coach helps me with also. And, as others have suggested, you need a private lesson for this.

This is a really great system!
 

ypht96

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 28, 2018
Okay, I‘ve finally found someone who could teach me for a (very) good price. I already asked another skater but I would have to travel a longer distance and pay 6 times more but I enjoy watching her skating. She is a professional skater I think, that’s why she wants more money. The one I‘m choosing was a national competitor until youth and my first lesson will be next week. She could do triples and all kind of spins (she said so) so I think there‘s a lot I can learn. But I haven’t seen her skating yet...Hopefully my technique, arm movements and skating flow will improve a lot!
 

Darth Skater

Spectator
Joined
Nov 28, 2021
I know this is super late, but in case someone is looking through old posts, here goes my attempt to give advice:
I like to watch videos of programs and if I see a step, arm movement, or sequence that fits the music, and then I test it out the next time I skate. Arm movements can be tricky to replicate on some turns because they are so reliant on balance, so if something causes the turn to not be clean, I don't keep it. I might mirror the arms, or put the choreographic bits before or after the step to keep from interfering with turn quality. Sometimes slowing down the video can help with picking up fast choreography, but once you get comfortable being expressive on the ice and moving your arms (which took me a while :) ), it gets easier to make up your own choreography on the spot. On Ice Perspectives on Youtube is my favorite, cause everything is easy to see.
 

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
I know this is super late, but in case someone is looking through old posts, here goes my attempt to give advice:
I like to watch videos of programs and if I see a step, arm movement, or sequence that fits the music, and then I test it out the next time I skate. Arm movements can be tricky to replicate on some turns because they are so reliant on balance, so if something causes the turn to not be clean, I don't keep it. I might mirror the arms, or put the choreographic bits before or after the step to keep from interfering with turn quality. Sometimes slowing down the video can help with picking up fast choreography, but once you get comfortable being expressive on the ice and moving your arms (which took me a while :) ), it gets easier to make up your own choreography on the spot. On Ice Perspectives on Youtube is my favorite, cause everything is easy to see.
Hi and welcome.

May I just say as a pro to please not go about choreography this way. Find someone that can do choreography (on the cheap if you need it) for you otherwise you are for lack of a better word stealing pieces of choreography from skaters here and there to put in your programs and some might even be signature movements. Choreographers work to create these movements and pieces for each skater and some get paid well by skater to do so.

Try to come up with your own movement if you want to do your own choreography, since creating new forms of creative movement is one of the main points of choreography, and not recycling others work. Just saying here, because I also don't want you to be accused of taking movement (almost like copyrights work if that makes sense).

Have fun creating movement and exploring the artistic side of skating. :)
 

Darth Skater

Spectator
Joined
Nov 28, 2021
Hi and welcome.

May I just say as a pro to please not go about choreography this way. Find someone that can do choreography (on the cheap if you need it) for you otherwise you are for lack of a better word stealing pieces of choreography from skaters here and there to put in your programs and some might even be signature movements. Choreographers work to create these movements and pieces for each skater and some get paid well by skater to do so.

Try to come up with your own movement if you want to do your own choreography, since creating new forms of creative movement is one of the main points of choreography, and not recycling others work. Just saying here, because I also don't want you to be accused of taking movement (almost like copyrights work if that makes sense).

Have fun creating movement and exploring the artistic side of skating. :)
Yes. Looking back, I realized how poorly I explained it, but I wasn't trying to say making direct copies of something someone else has worked on. Apologies if that's what it sounded like. I didn't intend to say to take others work. Generally, something I see sparks a new idea, and I go from there. Think 'painting an abstract picture inspired by an emotion' sort of thing. :) Definately create your own movements. Thanks for the input!
 
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