US Coaches restricted by SafeSport | Page 7 | Golden Skate

US Coaches restricted by SafeSport

Amei

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
John Coughlin committed suicide.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/john-coughlin-champion-u-figure-232446842.html

SafeSport needs transparency. Or they need to conduct a thorough investigation BEFORE taking actions like they have.

This is one unholy mess to unravel. And it won't be without TRANSPARENCY.

Depending on the allegations I don't necessarily agree with that - Its very common practice in the US that if there's an investigation of an adult being inappropriate with minors and their job have them around minors that they be suspended or put on some type of administrative leave pending the outcome of the investigation.
 

CellarDweller

Ice Time
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 14, 2018
Country
United-States
Depending on the allegations I don't necessarily agree with that - Its very common practice in the US that if there's an investigation of an adult being inappropriate with minors and their job have them around minors that they be suspended or put on some type of administrative leave pending the outcome of the investigation.

I agree with this. When kids are involved, their safety must be given top priority. If someone who works with kids and is accused of something, even if it's unproven at that moment, that person needs to be removed from that situation. It may not seem fair, but if that person was guilty, and they are not removed, more kids could be put at risk while the investigation is happening.
 

rachno2

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 6, 2018

I understand that Chris took issue with the user presenting Coughlin’s misdeeds as facts when no evidence to that effect has been confirmed. But he probably should have let it go earlier, because this isn’t a great look. I know it’s hard to stay quiet when your friend is involved, but people (especially in the public eye) should probably let the investigation run its course and try not to engage. It comes off as dogpiling, and doesn’t create a conducive environment for other possible survivor(s) to come forward. Jmo.
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
Doesn’t really create an environment where people feel safe to come forward if they fear they’ll get dog-piled by elite skaters and their fans. Jmo.

I know there is no evidence, and I know it’s hard to stay quiet when your friend is involved. But people should really just let the investigation run its course and try not to engage. This isn’t a good look.

(That said, I get that Chris took issue with the user presenting Coughlin’s misdeeds as facts when there is no evidence. But he probably should have let it go earlier)

I’m sorry, but Chris is “dog piling” because he said there was only an allegation? I don’t get that, particularly with that incredibly long OP tweet, unless I missed one of his responses :scratch2:

The only response I saw that was problematic was Dalillah’s. Alexa K. and Adam Rippon talked about how they loved their friend. As well they ought.

But I don’t claim to have seen them all. :shrug:
 

rachno2

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 6, 2018
I’m sorry, but Chris is “dog piling” because he said there was only an allegation? I don’t get that, particularly with that incredibly long OP tweet, unless I missed one of his responses :scratch2:

The only response I saw that was problematic was Dalillah’s. Alexa K. and Adam Rippon talked about how they loved their friend. As well they ought.

But I don’t claim to have seen them all. :shrug:

I tried to clarify a bit in my edit. I don’t think Chris’ response itself was dogpiling (again, I understand why he responded the way that he did), but the fact that he kept engaging was probably not the best idea. And it attracted some ugly replies from other users.

ETA I don’t want to engage in this further. If people want to share happy anecdotes about Coughlin, they can. I understand that this is a sensitive and painful time for the people who knew him. Those kinds of stories just make me feel deeply uncomfortable and can make some (not all) survivors uncomfortable as well.
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
I tried to clarify a bit in my edit. I don’t think Chris’ response itself was dogpiling (again, I understand why he responded the way that he did), but the fact that he kept engaging was probably not the best idea. And it attracted some ugly replies from other users.

I understand, and I agree that even in grief, a skater should probably stay out of a fan’s tweets for now.

We all need to process.:(
 

Metis

Shepherdess of the Teal Deer
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 14, 2018
I agree 100% with Chris. These are allegations yet Nicole is acting like hes already been found guilty. If this turns out to be false allegations, Nicole is going to have some explaining to do.

You might want to listen to TSL. It sheds some light on how SafeSport works. It’s not as simple as picking up the phone and getting someone suspended.
https://youtu.be/TuzJqojCAV4
 

andromache

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Even those people who hate TSL should listen to the latest. Dave interviews a woman who has a lot of experience with and knowledge about SafeSport. On top of that, she was contacted/interviewed by SafeSport about Coughlin (though she keeps details intentionally vague for the privacy of the investigation).
 

NymphyNymphy

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 26, 2017
You might want to listen to TSL. It sheds some light on how SafeSport works. It’s not as simple as picking up the phone and getting someone suspended.
https://youtu.be/TuzJqojCAV4

Thanks for the insight. So based on what I understand, the amount of evidence must have be ample for them to release a statement. This has changed my view of things but I would still hold off until the final verdict.
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
I started to watch the TSL interview, despite my misgivings, but I thought the interviewee would have been someone in the organization SafeSport itself. Rather it appears someone who was a coach in different sports? Or a witness *interviewed* by Safesport. :think: That's not the viewpoint I was interested in hearing. In addition, I felt the interviewee had a point of view that was coloring whatever information she had.

I could be wrong, I could not make it through the entire interview :shrug:

I would love a written interview with someone actually in the SafeSport organization. Perhaps someday we will actually get that.
 
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bobbob

Medalist
Joined
Feb 7, 2014

The OP tweeter is making far too many assumptions. She keeps on referring to sexual assault and violence against multiple "little girls"...do we know that, does she have inside information, or is she making it up? I completely agree with Chris. Nicole is totally gaslighting with unsound arguments...e.g. Chris says it is "allegations" not yet proven...Nicole equates that to Chris saying all the women are being liars
 

Icey

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
No group like SafeSport would take the action they have without substantial evidence. Thank you , Metis, for the TSL video.
 

twirlingblades

Medalist
Joined
Apr 2, 2016
With regard to transparency, SafeSport is so opaque that it looks like no one is even sure what it does. The article specifies sexual allegations but mentions others, Dave says it only does sexual allegations, my skating magazine's ad mentions bullying, a gymnast made a report for verbal/physical misconduct, ugh! Every time I think I finally understand, something changes. I am all out of feet to end up in my mouth, so I'm out of this thread until SafeSport or USFS makes a statement.

My hunch is still that this was not something illegal. If that is the case, whether the allegations are true or not, I feel terrible for the accuser. Even if they are true, if it was something legal and comparatively minor, I can't imagine the person wanted Mr. Coughlin dead over it. This is just a mess. May the Lord have mercy on all involved.

SS rules cover a variety of things (bullying, abuse, etc) but only investigates sexual crimes. That is what Dave is referring to. Other SS issues would be investigated by USFS.

This is my understanding of it, at least.
 

beachmouse

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 23, 2017
No group like SafeSport would take the action they have without substantial evidence. Thank you , Metis, for the TSL video.

There's a lot of case law in the USA about how an organization cannot interfere with a person's right to earn a living. Common for companies to say they have a policy of only verifying dates of employment for a former employee and they will not discuss anything about the person's character or work value. (There have been many lawsuits over negative references that led to those kinds of policies)

We do not know what led to the SafeSport sanctions but they would not have been placed lightly or without care on the organization's part because even SafeSport can be sued for overreach in US courts
 

aqua70

Rinkside
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
ITA totally agree with posters who believe that victims SHOULD report to law enforcement if a crime has been committed against them. However, there's a huge difference between what people SHOULD do vs. what they ACTUALLY do. More often than not, victims don't even report the crime to anyone out of fear & shame. And those that do tend to only report to the authority figure closest to them--a college, church, organization, or even family members--because most people are good and believe that most other people are good & will do the right thing. When they are not believed by those figures, many won't go any further because now, in addition to feeling shame and afraid, they're now convinced that they won't be believed.

Unfortunately, organizations that offer in-house investigations into crimes do often cover them up to maintain their reputation & it often takes years, decades, or centuries (if we're including the Catholic Church) for victims' stories to come to light & about as long to get justice of their behalf.

I still hope that the investigation is completed and the actual details are revealed so that--one way or the other-- everyone involved (including figure skating fans & followers) understands what's going on (without compromising any potential future LE investigation). And I hope that, if it is a sex crime, that the correct actions are taken to pursue justice for the victim--regardless of their age.
 

brightphoton

Medalist
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Gracie Gold posts on Instagram about the training camp she co-taught with John Coughlin. She says that she and John had a lot of fun teaching young, enthusiastic skaters.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs1ZGapHdGm/

Policy wise, so many things wrong with that. John should have been put on administrative leave, as he was under investigation.

This reminds me of Nastia Liukin's interview at some American Classic gymnastics competition. It occurred after maybe 3 or 5 women came forward with allegations, so the scandal was not that big, at the time. She said that she personally had not been molested by Larry, so she couldn't say that the allegations had any merit. I was disappointed in her. Those women were her training mates, her friends, and she was dismissing them because she and her father had nice cushy jobs lined up at USA Gymnastics and didn't want ruin a nice thing.

I hope when people give eulogies about John Coughlin, that they remember that there is a very probability that one or more Jane Does or John Does were sexually assaulted by him. They are not famous or high profile, but they exist. People should speak as if those victims were in the same room, and watching.
 

MissBeeFarm

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 22, 2018
Gracie Gold posts on Instagram about the training camp she co-taught with John Coughlin. She says that she and John had a lot of fun teaching young, enthusiastic skaters.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs1ZGapHdGm/

Policy wise, so many things wrong with that. John should have been put on administrative leave, as he was under investigation.

This reminds me of Nastia Liukin's interview at some American Classic gymnastics competition. It occurred after maybe 3 or 5 women came forward with allegations, so the scandal was not that big, at the time. She said that she personally had not been molested by Larry, so she couldn't say that the allegations had any merit. I was disappointed in her. Those women were her training mates, her friends, and she was dismissing them because she and her father had nice cushy jobs lined up at USA Gymnastics and didn't want ruin a nice thing.

I hope when people give eulogies about John Coughlin, that they remember that there is a very probability that one or more Jane Does or John Does were sexually assaulted by him. They are not famous or high profile, but they exist. People should speak as if those victims were in the same room, and watching.
The difference with Nastia is that she was put into a position where she had to say something. She was asked about Nassar, live on-air. It wasn't a great position to be in, and I can't blame her for her comments in that particular instance. Providing a voluntary comment on Instagram is different (though Nastia had her share of questionable Instagram comments as well)
 
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